Anotherpower.com Forum
Renewable Energy Questions/Discussion => Solar (heating or electric) => Topic started by: WooferHound on August 03, 2012, 08:22:55 am
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Diesel-dependent Tokelau is still on track to become the first entirely solar-powered places on Earth in a project led by a New Zealand solar company.
Once the project is complete, Tokelau will be the first country to meet 100 per cent of its climate change obligations and will only need fossil fuel to power its fleet of three cars.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/7408149/Tokelau-to-shed-diesel-dependence
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Gotta love a country with a "fleet" of 3 cars! Not to mention going 100% RE otherwise.
Bravo, Tokalau.
Tom
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Gotta love a country with a "fleet" of 3 cars! Not to mention going 100% RE otherwise.
Bravo, Tokalau.
Tom
Probably all Govt cars with "exempt" plates :)
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Berkeley lab develops technology to make photovoltaics out of any semiconductor
http://greenbuildingcanada.ca/2012/widespread-solar-berkeley-photovoltaics-semiconductor/
UCLA Develops Electricity-Generating, Transparent Solar Cell Windows
http://inhabitat.com/ucla-develop-electricity-generating-transparent-solar-cell-windows/
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For Up-To-Date information about Solar developments
http://www.solardaily.com/
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Triple junction Solar Cells achieving 50% efficiency
http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/tapping-the-power-of-100-suns
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Interesting read Woof, thanks.
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That's damn impressive. How long do you think it would take an American state to fulfill that kind of criteria? I really wish renewable energy was more widely available for the general public. If it wasn't for these greedy energy companies I'm sure we'd be on the right track, faster. It's just a vicious cycle though, as energy bills continue to increase, it's going to be more difficult for households to buy the equipment to run their homes in a greener way. I've been spending the past couple months trying to be greener, growing my own vegetables and having a wormery, but I feel that solar panels would be the next step! I've been recommended this place for Links are disabled until your post count is higher. domestic solar panels, but just wanted to know if it might be more worth my while if I constructed my own? I've been doing a little bit of research and it's not actually as expensive as I'd thought, but which would be more effective?
Cheers!
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Certainly is. The technology to do all this and make it a reality is all there, just gotta get it to happen! ;)
I think the transparent and "50%" triple layer cells are probably the most intriguing to me personally. I'm sure neither is cheap, but with that kind of output and being able to even use the real estate of windows to produce power, the possibilities may very well be endless.
I figure there are 2 main reasons that solar hasn't really taken off... First, cost. ROI is dismal at best currently, but is improving. Second, power density. People want to live their lives the way they always have; Spongebob on the tube, while the kids could care less and are outside chasing each other around the yard, among many other equally power wasting "uses". Not remotely possible with the current technology, but high density production means more juice from the same light. 50% is what, about 4 or 5x the capability of even the most efficient panels available to the average Joe? :o
I can't wait, personally.
Steve
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50% is what, about 4 or 5x the capability of even the most efficient panels available to the average Joe? :o
About 3X.
What gets me is how "not quite good" some of the installations are done.
612KW of solar, placed flat and level, with almost 0 circulation?
Guessing they never heard of dust & bird doo-doo, heat, or snow in New Jersey.
A 300 pound guy up there with a bottle of windex and roll of paper towels walking on all those panels sound like a great idea to anyone? :o
This next one is a serious contender for my "WTF! Award of the Year".
Anyone notice Stanford's solar powered elephant watching solar thing?
Powers a camera, laptop, and beer fridge. Wow.
It is about 100 miles south of the Nambia / Angola line, about 15 degrees south of the equator.
The correct mounting angle there would be... oh crap that's too hard... lets just hang them vertical and keep hanging more until it works!
Guessing the Stanford School of Medicine people don't know about Stanford's Earth Sciences Dept, or Stanford's Engineering Dept.
[attachimg=1]
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Certainly is. The technology to do all this and make it a reality is all there, just gotta get it to happen! ;)
Second, power density. People want to live their lives the way they always have; Spongebob on the tube, while the kids could care less and are outside chasing each other around the yard, among many other equally power wasting "uses".
Steve
yep...got that right !
example ....
My teenage grand daughter....lap top running, listening to music thru the computer. with
earphones on typing the great american novel about some hero teenagers solving
crime mysterys, no evidence of parents to watch them usually their parents have either
died or divorced ...none of these kids have a job....but they are well off ....unlimited
income from their uncle/aunt willing them fabulous fortunes......
meanwhile grand daughter is also watching TV with closed captions as she can't hear
what's on TV as she watches "1000 and One Ways to Die ".....as she sits in a dark
corner of the whole couch ....sunlight streaming in the window glaring.....but you can't
turn off the energy saving 24 watt CFL ....she wouldn't be able to see the lit computer
screen.....besides " it's weird to have the light off".....somehow none of this makes
sense to me !
...but the wife says....."all the kids are like that"
.......Oh well ?
Norm.
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Record Solar cell efficiency of 20.4% achieved
http://www.empa.ch/plugin/template/empa/3/131438/---/l=2
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Hopefully it will make the jump to production. Should be cheaper to produce, but time will tell.
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Harvard's Clean Energy Project (CEP) plans to release to solar power developers a list of the top 20,000 organic compounds that could be used to make cheap, printable photovoltaic cells (PVCs).
The list, culled from about seven million organic molecules that a crowdsourcing-style project has been crunching over the past two-plus years, could lead to PVCs that cost about as much as paint to cover a one-meter square wall.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238429/Harvard_global_grid_computing_project_will_help_create_printable_solar_cells
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At least the technology & info is not hidden in some patent quagmire by an energy conglomerate [yet].
I imagine pole sheds with power panel siding. Who cares if the watts / area is low if you can paint a few thousand square feet cheap?
T
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Yeah that's a cool concept... Between that and windows that comprise panels, entire structures will become power production facilities...
The key then that would seal the deal would be if they WERE in fact efficient enough to power the contents that they house ;)
Bet big bro oil would love that haha
Steve
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I still can't get excited about this technology. It is now over a decade old, and not a single useful solar generating product has emerged.
The problem is collecting these errant electrons that have been bashed out of their orbits.. Unless we can get graphene or similar to work sensibly, I don't know of any other clear conductors to carry away the negative pole.... and it would be all current, and very low voltage.
Don't hold your breath on this one.
.........................oztules
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maybe some sort of thin matt of conductors that stick on first and a thick paint that goes over it ?
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Well that may take care of the positive side (back side) what about the front surface where the action takes place. Collecting these I think is what has made this technology fall in a hole..... unless someone knows how do they intend to do it....
With the silicon ones they spray a conductive ink in fine lines to collect the electrons, but how do they intend to harvest it from the paint front.
Don't look too simple from where i sit.
Conductive paint for the back side would work.... but the front needs some other clear conductive paint?
Then there is the problem of seriesing (if there is such a word) the "cells" to get up to some decent voltage..... looks tough to me.
Someone will work it out, but i don't see it as simple.
.............oztules
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Cutting it up into cells would be tricky for sure, and interconnecting them, but for the negative electrode, what about the materials used in LCD? Or is that just a really thin metallic film that can only carry trivial amounts of current?
Steve
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well with 3d printing maturing quick, there is a chance that we will be buying the "inks" and printing our own.
Would easily be able to overcome these obstacles with that tech.
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With normal panels at such low prices (bought 4kw of UL CEC listed panels this morning for $3222 dollars .....$179 dollars for 230 watt panels), it seems an expensive thing to try and 3D print a wall....
With silicon tech so cheap, the paint idea may end up much dearer and die on the vine...... maybe except for Govt funded buildings.... they seem to just print money when needed now days to prove some environmental/ whatever point.
............oztules
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Wow, trying to power a city Oz ? ;D
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Not really wolv,
It is a bit droughty here at the moment, and a few folks want solar pumps to move water from some dams that they never used to dams that they have near emptied.
I build them the solar controllers ( free) and help them get DC pumps etc. Latest controller drives BIG pumps >2hp.... hence some reasonable panel for all weather pumping.
Been very dry here for a while, and water is getting a bit harder to get hold of when stock can drink 30-50 000 litres/day on some properties here. It gets serious very quickly when dams dry up.
I happened to be browsing on Ebay and saw the panels http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221165036622?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
They were perfect for what was needed so I bought a few for the other folks that need them. 30vmp and high current.... good for motors doing heavy work.
Look further down the listing and you find 190w panels (normal 37vmp types) for $165... that single units.... all ceritfied....or by the container, only 50 cent/watt plus 10% GST..... they must be buying them for 40c.... getting darn near free.. very hard to compete with.
..................oztules
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World Solar Challange, a solar car race in Australia, October 6-13 2013
In friendly competition with others attempting the same goals, the teams depart Darwin aiming to be the first to arrive in Adelaide, some 3000km to the south.
It's all about energy management! Based on the original notion that a 1000W car would complete the journey in 50 hours, solar cars are allowed a nominal 5kW hours of stored energy, which is 10% of that theoretical figure. All other energy must come from the sun or be recovered from the kinetic energy of the vehicle.
http://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/about_wsc_2013/overview
(http://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/files/65_aust_map_route.jpg)
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German and French researchers said Thursday that they have achieved a new world record on converting sunlight to energy through a photovoltaic, or solar cell.
The solar cell was able to collect energy at a 44.7% rate of efficiency, which was measured at a concentration of 297 suns.
The solar cells are made out of several cells using different "III-V" semiconductor materials that are stacked on top of each other. The single sub cells absorb different wavelength ranges of the solar spectrum.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242723/New_solar_cell_sets_world_record_focusing_the_power_of_297_suns
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The sun that station within the sky bathes Earth in ample energy to satisfy all the world’s power desires again and again over. It does not provide off dioxide emissions. It will not run out. And it’s free.
to know more read this article
[MOD EDIT - Link removed. Please, no external links by new users. See the rules (http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,64.0.html) for more information.]
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The World’s First Solar Road Is Producing More Energy Than Expected
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/05/11/3657220/solaroad-producing-energy/
The 230-foot stretch of road, which is embedded with solar cells that are protected by two layers of safety glass, is built for bike traffic, a use that reflects the road’s environmentally-friendly message and the cycling-heavy culture of the Netherlands. However, the road could withstand heavier traffic if needed, according to one of the project’s developers.
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Hey Woof-----------nice success story. Thanks for the share
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http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33383521
Now THAT'S solar news!
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Sure is. absolutely amazing feat.
Seeing it on the runway gives good perspective on how long those wings are.
Thanks for the share
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The Swiss team trying to fly a solar-powered plane around the world has abandoned its effort for this year.
Its Solar Impulse vehicle's batteries were damaged on the last leg of the journey from Japan to Hawaii and will take several months to repair
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33538442
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Sodium Magnesium Batteries
http://phys.org/news/2015-11-low-cost-battery-renewable-energy.html
Lithium Oxygen batteries
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-path-ultimate-battery.html
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Good read Woof. The Sodium Magnesium was especially interesting if can get the
prices down.
Many thanks
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My stuff is workin pretty good. Of course Im Polish and that makes a difference. I think the electrons flow better.
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Have you guys heard about the law the Congress passed about extending a tax credit for solar till 2021? It will remain 30% till 2019, then drop down to 26% in 2020 and then drop down more to 22% in 2021. If this is true, there will be a huge growth of the industry within a few years!
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Solar energy from discarded car batteries
MIT researchers have developed a simple procedure for making a promising type of solar cell using lead recovered from discarded lead-acid car batteries — a practice that could benefit both the environment and human health. As new lead-free car batteries come into use, old batteries would be sent to the solar industry rather than to landfills. And if production of this new, high-efficiency, low-cost solar cell takes off — as many experts think it will — manufacturers’ increased demand for lead could be met without additional lead mining and smelting. Laboratory experiments confirm that solar cells made with recycled lead work just as well as those made with high-purity, commercially available starting materials. Battery recycling could thus support production of these novel solar cells while researchers work to replace the lead with a more benign but equally effective material.
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Do you have a link to an article ndiakon?
This brings about a few thoughts.
It's interesting reading that batteries end up in a landfill.
It is downright illegal in many.. most? states in the USA to throw a lead acid car battery into a landfill. Recycling these batteries is encouraged also by surcharges to new car batteries, offset or reimbursed if you bring one in for trade. There is also a very well developed recycling system and practice in the USA for such batteries. Lead is one of the few things in recycling besides aluminum and some other metals that pays back enough to make it quite profitable. I can't speak for other countries, but if the current profit margin brought about by recovered lead is not enough to discourage improper disposal already, I doubt this tech will help in that regard much.
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Ségolène Royal, France’s minister of ecology and energy, has said that the government intends to pave 1,000km of road with photovoltaic panels in the next five years, supplying power to millions of people.
http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/trends/france-pa7ve-1000km-ro7ad-so7lar-panel7s/
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As I see it, for me the reason I have not gone Solar in the U.S. is that just the panels I need to operate my home in a manner that is just a cut above what Mad is always talking about, ie., not wasting even RE, is because solar panels that I need are well over $300 each and I need 20 to meet my needs. $6000 plus shipping??? batteries that cost as much as a single panel if you want a long lasting AGM maybe even more if you want the AH.
China, same number of panels $1600 (see Alibaba.com pretty much anything you need as long as you find a shipping forwarder, no brainer I guess, any question ask because minimums etc look confusing)for a total of 5000w plus shipping plus the 200-300% Tariff. The U.S. is always adding tariffs to keep out the reasonably priced products and then it feels as though the American greed steps in knowing there's no competition. So....I ordered my panels from China but not shipped to the U.S., to my retirement home south of Manila Philippines $1600+$200 shipping and $78 for the very cute and accommodating Customs Broker.
I have not looked at batteries on Alibaba yet but i believe I will be quite pleased. My panels come with a 25 year warranty from a company that has done quite well supplying and installing in Dubai and other rich Arab states. BlueSun has a nice young lady named Anna whi can help out with all your needs and they have in-house engineers who can tailor any system for you if your not sure what your doing.
As far as technology goes I think that the new ideas always take too long to come to fruition or never take off because of the lack of money. Lobbyist may kill the new tech out of berkley uc just to help the big boys stay in business with the old tech.
If I seem bitter, I am. If I need some correcting or anyone feels I'm wrong I welcome discussion because I may learn something and find I was wrong or just find a new perspective. I have learned more in the last few days from people like Oztules and others than I have in the last few years of trying to go solar. if someone on here is patient enough to learn me some new electronics and I can get my head wrapped around it woohoo!
also as a side note: the Philippines does not impose a tariff or customs tax on renewable energy be it solar or electric tricycles like my wifes or electric shuttles, the philippines has lots of incentives and credits. if I can figure out how to pump some back to Meralco the national power campany they will give me credit that I can use later should typhoon season just block the sun for too long.(wind mill anyone?) eBay has some nice 3 phase pm wind mills under $800.
I got my PowerJack inverter with built in solar charger woohoo! Smart generator coming soon.
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World largest Solar Steam generating plant goes live in Morocco
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3031659/sustainable-it/worlds-largest-solar-plant-goes-live-will-provide-power-for-11m-people.html
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Solar panels that also make electricity from the Rain
http://sciencenewsjournal.com/future-solar-panels-will-generate-energy-raindrops/
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Most interesting Woof. Went so far as to read the original article, which was largely
over my head. ;)
As always, thanks for the share
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Hey Woof
what about acid rain? ::) work better or break it down?
Seriously
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https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/japanese-company-develops-a-solar-cell-with-record-breaking-26-efficiency/
The silicon-based cells that make up a solar panel have a theoretical efficiency limit of 29 percent, but so far that number has proven elusive. Practical efficiency rates in the low-20-percent range have been considered very good for commercial solar panels. But researchers with Japanese chemical manufacturer Kaneka Corporation have built a solar cell with a photo conversion rate of 26.3 percent, breaking the previous record of 25.6 percent. Although it’s just a 2.7 percent increase in efficiency, improvements in commercially viable solar cell technology are increasingly hard-won.
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Here's Elon Musk's Plan to Power the U.S. on Solar Energy . . .
https://www.inverse.com/article/34239-how-many-solar-panels-to-power-the-usa
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Right on! I dont have knowledge on slr mfg effects to environment but unless thats a deal breaker we(the ppl) are stupid not to fill rooftops with panels. Its wasted sun realestate anyway not to mention you can double the use as roofing material. reduce size of HV transmission lines. It seems like a no brainer. Of course liquid fuels would still be needed for trains, semitrucks and airplanes but He is right!
Great read! Thanks so much for sharing this with us!!!
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Of course liquid fuels would still be needed for trains, semitrucks and airplanes.
India is rolling out trains with solar-powered coaches that’ll save thousands of liters of diesel
https://qz.com/1030696/india-is-rolling-out-trains-with-solar-powered-coaches-thatll-save-thousands-of-litres-of-diesel/
NASA Unveils Plans for Electric-Powered Plane
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/18/science/nasa-electric-plane-x57.html
Elon Musk Tweets Electric Semi Truck Will Debut in September
http://www.motortrend.com/news/elon-musk-tweets-electric-semi-truck-will-debut-september/
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India is rolling out trains with solar-powered coaches that’ll save thousands of liters of diesel
https://qz.com/1030696/india-is-rolling-out-trains-with-solar-powered-coaches-thatll-save-thousands-of-litres-of-diesel/
Typically, the numbers quoted don't add up. Even building in optimistic factors, there is no way the panels are going to come near anything like the fuel savings quoted. The energy the panels produce even when given every possible benefit, Production and hours per day assumed best possible case, every day, does not come near the energy content of diesel for the savings amount claimed.
Hope the indians know what they are getting into... or not be going to be able to get out of!
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I think someone has not factored in the immense scale of their national rail system..
There are 12,000-plus scheduled passenger train routes scheduled daily, 5000 of its 10,000 locomotives are diesels. Appears each passenger car has its own little diesel power source for local lighting, venting and safety loads. India has 65,000~ passenger coaches... If even 50% of them have aux power AND this saves one gallon of diesel a day then that is 12 million gallons of diesel unburned over a calendar year. Then how about the man-hours saved fueling & servicing the diesels plus the reduced fuel losses from spillage and lowered number of preventable accidents & equipment failure counting on an environmental perspective...
More factoids: seating capacity of the Indian Railways 5 million yet they will transport 23+ million people a day.
http://24coaches.com/indian-railways-facts-and-figures/ (http://24coaches.com/indian-railways-facts-and-figures/)
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Aren't the rooftops of Indian trains usually full sunlight blocking people?
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Just back from camping, so thanks Woof, good read.
And thanks to Dan for some good clarification.
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I think someone has not factored in the immense scale of their national rail system..
Although the train will still be pulled by a diesel-powered locomotive, a set of 16 solar panels atop each coach will replace the diesel generators that typically power these appliances. The railways estimate that a train with six solar-powered coaches could save around 21,000 litres of diesel every year, worth around Rs12 lakh.
As interpret the statement made there, they are refering to a saving of 21,000L PER TRAIN not per the whole network.
I give them more credit than to be working on a saving of only 21K L for the whole railway network.
Maybe some places might be that greenwashed but I doubt the Indians are.
Going on a train of 6 Carriages with 16 Panels of say 300W ea, 8 hours of sunlight which would be way optimistic given they all can't be facining the ideal direction let alone if any are at a particular time. I cannot see the energy return of 21K l of Diesel. If each individual train does not add up, you can have 10000 trains and it still won't work out.
Aren't the rooftops of Indian trains usually full sunlight blocking people?
I think you have a VERY valid point. The vids I have seen where people tend to get on the roofs of the trains are the Diesels. I have seen vids of people getting BBQ'ed on top of electrics but they tend to appear to be less . The other thing is if the panels are going to be smashed with people climbing on them or even stolen. I imagine something like a solar panel could be a very desired item in the poor parts for either personal home use of sale for extra income.
I'm also lent to wonder about the possible reduction of output through the buildup of diesel soot on the panels although that maybe countered by the everyday rains in Monsoon season which isn't exactly great for solar output either.
Perhaps they would be a lot better off putting the panels on top of the railway stations where the panels could be set up for a lot better efficiency and make the saving through less power consumption or back feeding into the grid.
Seems to me to be yet another of the endless feel good greenwashed but completely over hyped and poorly thought out ideas.
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Solar Grew Faster Than All Other Forms of Power for the First Time
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-04/dawn-of-solar-age-declared-as-pv-beats-all-other-forms-of-power
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Solar Grew Faster Than All Other Forms of Power for the First Time
Who Writes this agenda pushing crap as if it's news??
An emerging technology grew faster than those established already for over 100 years?
Wow, who would have seen that coming? ::)
More so, who would expect anything less?
I'll bet diesel powered car sales grew faster than electrics as well but so what?
Of course now, we only need a few billion more solar panels around the world and the pipe dream of electrics replacing IC powered vehicles might have a hope in hell of becoming reality.
Solar certainly grew faster than any other source of power in my home. Put in another 5 KW of power and hardly burned any oil. Didn't collect much either but I'll get onto that this month. Probably get another KW of panels as well.
Solar might be growing here where I am but it's also very limited too. The utility that serves most of the state and probably about 80% of the customers limits the amount of solar you can have to 5KW.
There are the predictable excuses like not wanting to overpower the grid or such rubbish which is pretty laughable given every night there is some mention on the news of electricity shortages and the gubbermint who was busy blowing up power stations at every opportunity now desperately trying to keep them open because they have weakened the grid to the point of near collapse and are installing Diesel Generators to replace the Coal stations they leveled.
The reason they don't want people putting more than 5 kw of panels up is all to do with profit which is plainly obvious to anyone that has a brain and can think for themselves. They should be encouraging people to put up panels and paying FAIR FIT's like they did previously before their Power company mates started sooking how much they were loosing in Revenue.
Time I'm finished with my solar setup, they will be lucky to get $50 a quarter out of me in power charges plus their BS " Supply" fee.
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Solar manufacturers are being battered by higher costs and smaller margins, after an unexpected shortage of a critical raw material.
Prices of polysilicon, the main component of photovoltaic cells, spiked as much as 35 percent in the past four months after environmental regulators in China shut down several factories.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/solar-companies-grapple-with-unexpected-shortage-of-key-material
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Thanks Woof. Mixed thoughts on reading it. Don't like paying more for cells/panels, but,
China waking up to environmental issues is not all bad.
We will see how it all plays out.
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Tesla Inc. has kicked off production of its long-awaited electricity-producing shingles that Elon Musk says will transform the rooftop solar industry. Manufacturing of the photovoltaic glass tiles began last month at a factory in Buffalo built with backing from New York State, the company said in an email Tuesday. It comes more than a year after Tesla unveiled the shingles to a mix of fanfare and skepticism.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-09/tesla-powers-up-new-york-gigafactory-solar-roof-assembly-line
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The Trump administration just approved tariffs of 30% on imported solar panels.
https://www.axios.com/trump-issues-tariffs-on-imported-solar-panels-1516657913-8494a383-555f-45dd-b869-086a6524e94f.html
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Prices just going up :/
Thanks for the posts Woofer
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Sounds like I may have got my system at the right time. I don't know what you pay in the U.S but here in Aus panels vary a lot in price. My panels for the new place cost $140 Aus for a 200 watt panel. As we have very modest needs and live in an ultra tiny house we have a 1.2 kilowatt system with 600 amp hour battery bank.
We are in the process of getting the supply authority to come and take their power lines down.
I have lived off grid for nearly 40 years now, and never intended to be connected to the grid. The new place we bought has grid connection but not for long.
I love the freedom of supplying my own power and water.
Good to hear that Mr Musk is getting on with his dreams
Pete
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Remember the first 2.5 gigawatt is exempt each year - that is ten million 250w panels allowed in without the new tax.
I hope there will be more than ONE silicon foundry making US wafers three years from now; Already everyone and their brothers are petitioning for exemptions like the back-contact process high efficiency cells - a completely selfish wish I have is hopefully next-gen tech 22-24% efficient cells will become cheaper and hopefully the investments to fabricate them IN the US will become real.
The tariff applies to the wholesale price - back when panels were selling here for $5 a watt that 30% on wholesale would have meant something by adding a dollar to the wholesale price to bring it above $6/watt... Nowadays not so much when the wholesale price is 25¢ or 35¢ (or less) per watt that 30% adds a dime per watt, so panels still retail for 75, 80 or 90¢ per watt.
Yes - on a Megawatt installation it adds up but that is where we need US based industries to supply them instead of off-shoring everything except middlemen cashing their checks. Beyond just PV Fab companies it is also USA aluminum, iron-free glass, copper & polymer, packaging and warehousing industries that get shut out by off-shore import/dumping.
A decrease in USA import shipments will make the PV surplus glut larger worldwide & likely trigger lower prices for consumers (after the middlemen milk the profit jump for all it is worth)...
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Sadly here many communities and states now make it mandatory (or try to) to be connected to the grid, or they consider your house unlivable, and will do everything they can to enforce this.
They site this and its current years as their reasoning.
http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php/d/34065-1/ipmc.pdf (http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php/d/34065-1/ipmc.pdf)
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A truck ain't ideal, but at least it's off the radar still... lol/sigh ::)
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The only thing I could find was that line that says
Dwelling units shall be served by a three-wire, 120/240 volt, single-phase electrical service having a minimum rating of 60 amperes.
Shall be served is quite a stretch. Socialist government at its best. Apparently the new world order has infiltrated the USA. International codes as if we’re incapable of making our own codes. As a mechanical contractor I have had to deal with international codes that go to some great extremes. Deep breath and raise prices to deal with the increase in materials and labor.
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Solar+battery in one device sets new efficiency standard
Ars Technica reports on an international team's demonstration of a device merging photovoltaic and battery hardware into a single, unified device "that can have extensive storage capacity... a device that's both stable and has efficiencies competitive with those of silicon panels."
The resulting hardware can operate in any of three modes: providing power as a solar cell, using sunlight to charge as a battery, or providing power as a battery.
Previous records for a solar flow battery show the tradeoffs these devices have faced. The researchers used a measure of efficiency termed solar-to-output electricity efficiency, or SOEE. The most efficient solar flow devices had hit 14.1 percent but had short lifespans due to reactions between the battery and photovoltaic materials. More stable ones, which had lifespans exceeding 200 hours, only had SOEEs in the area of 5 to 6 percent.
The new material had an SOEE in the area of 21 percent — about the same as solar cells already on the market, and not too far off the efficiency of the photovoltaic hardware of the device on its own. And their performance was stable for over 400 charge/discharge cycles, which means for at least 500 hours. While they might eventually decay, there was no indication of that happening over the time they were tested. Both of those are very, very significant improvements.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/single-device-merges-solar-power-and-battery-tech/ (https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/single-device-merges-solar-power-and-battery-tech/)
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Hey Woof!
If they’re talking pv and battery sealed component I’d say nope! If it’s a slide out replaceable pack sure, or I missed the point.
Anyway as to the US making solar panels, the track record sucks and even if they got factories rolling I seriously doubt they’ll ever compete with China unless huge tariffs are imposed and then they charge inflated prices because they can. Solar has gone nowhere in the US because just paying for the initial install cost is prohibitive for most. Even when folks have the money they don’t get a system that powers their home at night.
I bought Chinese panels, Chinese lifepo4 batteries, Chinese Powerjack inverter, eBay everything else and came in under $10k. This would be $35-45k installed for off grid or grid tie installed for you in the US. There’s the disconnect involved called greed.
Then again the factory worker that put bolt a into bolt hole b all day and want $45 an hour is part of the problem too. If the corporate shmucks would pay full medical benefits and matching 1 for 1retirement funds most people might chill out about wanting to be paid more than their actually worth.
Ok rant over. Chinese get paid little but feel blessed to have it. Here in Charleston Boeing employees told the union to stick it and the employment opportunities went thru the roof and there hasn’t been any complaints. Every year the union tries again and a large majority vote no so Boeing is doing something right. Right to work states yay.
I hope some American company proves me wrong and slaps out some affordable panels that out do China and are available to the public without too many middlemen.
A pic of panel inefficiency.
Stay cool folks
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If they’re talking pv and battery sealed component I’d say nope! If it’s a slide out replaceable pack sure, or I missed the point.
The way that I am reading this is that, the Battery is the Solar Cell and capacity is only limited by the amount of electrolyte that is circulated in the system.
The comments at the end of the article are informative.
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Solarnewbee... to add to your " rant " lol, also wish mega corporations would put more local workers on and not expect mega profits... its happening here in Australia, manufacturing is going to 3rd world countries cause its " cheaper " yet the prices don't reflect it, so who is getting the cream... balance and less greed ... lol, where's the flying pork 😂
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It's Official: Solar Is the Cheapest Electricity in History
In a new report, the International Energy Agency (IEA) says solar is now the cheapest form of electricity for utility companies to build. That’s thanks to risk-reducing financial policies around the world, the agency says, and it applies to locations with both the most favorable policies and the easiest access to financing. The report underlines how important these policies are to encouraging development of renewables and other environmentally forward technologies.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a34372005/solar-cheapest-energy-ever/
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Battery prices have fallen 88 percent over the last decade
The average cost of a lithium-ion battery pack fell to $137 per kWh in 2020, according to a new industry survey from BloombergNEF. That's an inflation-adjusted decline of 13 percent since 2019. The latest figures continue the astonishing progress in battery technology over the last decade, with pack prices declining 88 percent since 2010.
More . . .
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/12/battery-prices-have-fallen-88-percent-over-the-last-decade/
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Good read Woof, thanks for the share.
bj
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Wow Woof, prices in the US are very low. Here from what I see Lithium batteries are still way above the prices for SLA or Flooded cells.
Great to see some new posts here, things have been very quiet for a while.
I guess the Northern Hemisphere is going into winter and hibernating.
Cheers
Pete
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The Fraunhofer Institute wants to run smaller vehicles on magnesium hydride in a paste form that they call POWERPASTE.
The idea is that the paste effectively stores hydrogen at normal temperature and pressure. At 250C, the paste decomposes and releases its hydrogen.
https://hackaday.com/2021/02/06/the-future-of-hydrogen-power-is-paste/
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Interesting read Woof, not sure of the practicality for vehicles, but sure it will spawn something that is.
Thanks for the share.
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Researchers at ETH Zurich and Empa have chemically modified wood and made it more compressible, turning it into a mini-?generator. When compressed, it generates an electrical voltage. Such wood could serve as a biosensor or as a building material that harvests energy.
https://electrek.co/2021/03/15/these-researchers-in-switzerland-can-get-electricity-from-wood/
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In a world-first, a team of researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology has developed a small, 3D-printed rectifying antenna that can harvest electromagnetic energy from 5G signals and use it to power devices, in a way turning 5G networks into "a wireless power grid," according to a press release by the university.
https://interestingengineering.com/rectenna-harvests-electromagnetic-energy-from-5g-signals
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the whole 5G thing is kinda scary, think about it, 4G already
does everything needed and i dont think its consumer
demand driving the 5G plans. So who is shoveling the
money into this and why? Wireless power cannot help but
disrupt ecology. Are we so clueless as to not realize there
are things like red blood cells that contain iron which is responsive to magnetic fields? Not to mention plenty of other
Natural processes that are sensitive to emf.
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I don't think that any of the so called upgrades of mobile phone networks are customer driven.
Many years ago I had an analog Motorola brick phone. It picked up signal and worked at my home which was 45 kilometres out of town.
Then along came CDMA which was supposed to be a big improvement, well my range dropped to about 25 kilometres from a tower.
Then Digital same range fell off massively again.
Then 3g, 4G range is down again
Now 5G well where I live it is totally academic, we do not have anywhere near enough people for the providers to bother with a tower near us so it is 4 g and that is it.
Seems to me that as more and more people get addicted to their phones the phone providers will keep the updates coming to sell them more phones and more products. The internet already struggles with all the people watching TV programs and Streaming. Basically when the internet falls over the world will stop. Oh what a lovely day that will be.
Pete
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Interesting read Woof, and thanks for that.
I don't think I buy into it, but thanks for the share.
bj
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I can't see how it could work really. If too many people used the 5G network to run their devices then the network would be overloaded and crash.
Then there is the legal issues. Would it be classified as stealing power.
Many years ago I read of people putting large coils under high voltage powerlines to act as a transformer and steal power.
They were fined. Not sure now how much power they managed to get from their air cored transformers but they got fined and had to pull their coils apart. I think the same would happen with any attempt to get power from a phone network.
Pete
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On one side, large electric utilities and President Biden want to build thousands of miles of power lines to move electricity created by distant wind turbines and solar farms to cities and suburbs.
On the other, some environmental organizations and community groups are pushing for greater investment in rooftop solar panels, batteries and local wind turbines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/11/business/energy-environment/biden-climate-transmission-lines.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/11/business/energy-environment/biden-climate-transmission-lines.html)
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I didnt read article yet but rooftop solar makes much more sense, after all, its nearly free realestate and the energy is produced where its needed. With the push for electric vehicles they will need to do both and still wont have enough electricity. "Lets plug in a million EVs and shut down more coal and nuclear plants!" some crazy thinking going on out there. Im loosing hope in intelligence of humanity.
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The only way I can see that Electric cars would work, is that each owner had a bunch of panels on their roof to offset the power their house and car uses.
Not sure about the US but in Australia we have an almost national power grid, so that if one power station goes down then power is still available from other states.
Where I live in Tasmania we have an interconnector cable to the mainland and are looking at putting in a couple more. As all of our power is supplied here by hydro and wind turbines we are in a good position to export power. That is of course until and event like a prolonged drought and the cable breaking down happen. As it did a few years ago. Some bright sparks in the energy industry decided to make plenty of money on selling our hydro power and did not take the possibility of a dry winter ( when it rains most here) into account. So the dams were almost dry and we could not import power as the cable broke.
So as we do with our own stand alone systems, grid systems need to have backups for their backups.
The easiest way to ensure energy sufficiency is to learn to use less power, but that does not seem to be the way that humanity is working or not working in this case.
Pete
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Here in Europe, there are companies that can supply used and cheapo PV panels by the Container load.
http://www.emat-de.com/home/clearance (http://www.emat-de.com/home/clearance)
Excellent if you want your own charging station.
I now go for the 20% rule, ie Winter use when there is no sunshine.
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Hi Clockman, I am guessing that the 20% rule means you have 20% more panels than you think you need, is that how your rule works.
We get a lot of cloudy, foggy and rainy days where I live, so we try to put the power back in fast when there is sunshine.
Still with 4kw of panels, I am yet to see more than 2.5kw going in to the batteries.
That may be because I have 2 kw of panels facing North and 2kw facing North West. We obviously live in the Southern hemisphere.
Once the batteries are charged then I use power for pumping water, and splitting wood or welding etc.
Cheers
Pete
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Hi Pete,
The fact that PV panels are so cheap against any other renewable energy generating system is the first KEY.
15 years ago i was maximising the PV output with 3kw trackers, nowadays i advise "just stick another 1/3rd more panels up on a static array, as there are no moving parts with a static array".
I have found over the years that my 20% rule seems to work well, especially in the last 8 years as Monocrystalline have become more efficient in ambient light conditions. I am aiming for a total of 30kW of PV, this then gives me an average of about 6kW in ambient light.
At present, Except for 6kW on my old PV trackers that DC charge, i have 12kW of PV that uses old /used GTI's, running on my OzInverter created MINI GRID, as these Old/used GTI's have good MPPT so they give every last drop of PV power. And being second hand/used are scrap prices, so very cost effective.
NOTE, I recommend not to use more than 2.5kW GTI's as any bigger GTI's and they spend there time clicking in and out.
So my present 18kW system is incredibly simple, very robust, and very very cost effective.
The problem is for most folk is getting there head around the OzInverter AC and DC coupling concept. But I am putting another publication together that will fully explain with lost of photos etc.
Some preliminary Info..... http://www.bryanhorology.com/off-grid-and-your-own-mini-grid.php (http://www.bryanhorology.com/off-grid-and-your-own-mini-grid.php)
The below is a history and another publication about our 20 year Project here in rural Normandy, in France.
Sustainability,
20 years of the ‘LE VIVRAY’ Project, Normandy, France.
This book is written for my 3 boys and family and good friends, it is Not an academic paper, it is a true Empirical evidence practical publication.
However, things have really changed in the last few years, and many people are constantly asking us many questions about our activities here. So, this book will join other ‘How to make’ books that are published here by Bryan Microengineering.
We are at present a ‘Independent non-commercial Sustainability & Renewable Energy Project’, and been doing the research and development for over 20 years now. And NO, we do not just throw money at this stuff, and if necessary, we will re-invent the wheel if it works out more cost effective. Our Mantra ..... Keep it Simple, Make it Robust, and keep it Cost Effective.
Over the past 20 years we have seen many changes in the issues surrounding our planets health and its Future.
When we started here at ‘Le Vivray’ in 2002, we knew we had the opportunity to start from a clean plate, as the land and old buildings, local red brick and oak framed barns were basic constructions, and in the past 50 years had only received limited emergency maintenance. Therefore, we had the opportunity to design and implement sustainability strategies at the project’s creation.
We wanted to live and walk lightly on this planet and we could use our skills to help others in the future. We were older parents of a young family, however being a slightly older dad, I was fortunate to know many good friends that were, farmers, engineers, builders, surveyors, architects, electricians, master masons, true bricklayers, master joiners and many more professions and good friends who have offered their free help and advice over the years. And yes, most of them thought that we were ‘mad as hatters’ taking on such a large and complicated project.
CHAPTERS. A1. Short Introduction. Saving the Planet on a budget.
1. Explain Sustainability in a practical context at ‘Le Vivray’. Why, How, and the Future.
2. Planning and cost effectiveness resolution.
3. Development, Testing, cost effective and minimum environmental impact. Capital Costs kept minimum; work done by our own team. ROI, Return On Investment
4. Reliability and effectiveness of commercial products, and sourcing locally.
5. Regulations and conforming to Country codes and Safety.
6. Skills required.
7. Insulation of old buildings to Passive House standards, what and how.
8. Garden and food growing
9. Our own FR approved Sewage system.
10. Grey water system and re=use, Reed beds, holding fish pond, etc.
11. Heating & Energy Creation and self-consumption, using second hand etc.
12. What’s required for a normal Domestic House/Dwelling.
13. 2kW Solar PV Trackers.
14. Solar PV differing types mounting installations.
15. AC coupling with used Grid Tied PV Inverters.
16. Wind Turbines.
17. OzInverter. Creating your own 240vac 50HZ Mini Grid.
18. PLANTE Battery, and notes on batteries technology.
19. Other interlinked projects, Transportation, ECO salt swimming pool.
20. Acknowledgements.
21. Tables and graphs for size and volumes etc.
22. Further research links and other useful contacts. Bryan Microengineering , July 2021
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Thankyou Bryan for your reply. I will read the article on Mini Grids, and see how it works.
I am not sure that I can work a mini grid as to comply with Australian Standards here I have connected my panels to output less than 120 volts DC.
This way I do not need to reapply for my electricians licence ( retired now) to work on low voltage. My 90 volt setup keeps me in the Extra Low Voltage range where I do not need a licence to work on it. Also the regulators I have at the moment are only 100 volt max so wiring panels up for enough voltage to run a GTI is not feasible at the moment.
Your setup looks great from what I have read ,
Thanks
Pete
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Pete the thing about 5g is that it's working on the same frequencies that we have been using for a very very long time.
The most distinctive thing about 5g, at least in the USA is they are using lower power transmitters with many more radios, and many more towers / points of cellular access. This VASTLY improves the load capacity of the cellular network. This greatly improves the speed, because the amount of devices on each access point is far reduced and allows each to have a larger share.
There are many other under the hood changes, but those are the most significant to any idea of exposure.
Each tower/cellular access point is lower power than previous technology using far less power on some bands than the previous uses of many of each.
Our older tech cell phones, the analog in particular put out a LOT more RF radiation. 4-5 watts vs milliwatts.
As far as 5g being used to spy on people. Yeah it's entirely possible.
But if your that worried about surveillance I sure hope you have not been in a big box store in the last decade.
There may definitely be worries about how 5g is used but it's like any tech, it can be used in good ways, or bad way.
But the technology is not inherently dangerous because of radiation or anything like that.
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Hi Wolv, I think the same applies to 5G here too, we live to far away from a town for us to get any 5G anyway. Sometimes 4 G gets picked up. I am not worried about surveillance, we have check in apps here for covid, so the government know where we are anyway.
The main thing that bothers me is all the mindless phone users that we have to continuously dodge on the footpath and on the roads.
I figure it is natural selection in action, the more mindless people become and the more absorbed in their technology the more of them are headed for an early demise. Be it by walking into traffic or lamp posts.
I get the bit about low power being better for our bodies, it just seems a bit crazy to call it an upgrade. When you have to live in a city for it to work. I lived for many years without a phone or internet. So I guess it won't be too hard when they drop 3G and 4G from the service. A hermits life is pretty good really
Cheers
Pete
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I believe part of the 5g rollout is to support voice calls over internet/wifi on phones, text so far isn't a thing as far as I can tell.
But there are a LOT of alternatives to that. Telegram is what most of my friends and I use.
It's like the digital changeover on TV. if your in the fringes, you could be just SOL I guess.
Though around my area there have been a LOT of new smaller towers erected.
Coverage has only improved, I even seem to have 5g if I step outside but 4g inside so I am guessing the 5g here is on a very high band.
I have noticed a lot though I will have good signals in areas with voice but no data network services, even after a reboot and such.
One of these places is at my daughters house. It's consistently like that so its not like a transient problem.
We live quite a long way out in the boonies but have a unique situation where we are situated on a massive corridor of services that transverses not just this state, but several in the region. Power, internet and all forms of transport converge here.
We might not be a small out of the way place in the sticks long though, the last two years people have been fleeing big cities, and word of this area has gotten out.
Everyone wants to come here because its NOT a big city, nobody is enforcing the commandants of the dictators, and we have some of the fastest internet in the world. Kinda sucks actually. I really don't want this city to get larger and bring with it all the bad things that entails.
But its almost always about money, returns, and political will so who knows.
I guess we will just have to wait and see where it goes.
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Hi Wolv, yes there are problems with finding a paradise to live in, seems that too many people discover it too and then it all goes downhill.
I moved to Tasmania because of the landscape and small ( and shrinking ) population. Now with all the climate and covid refugees the population is growing again. Fortunately we live in an out of the way place where services are almost non existent. So city folk don't want to live here.
We do have TV, although I have got one now, for many years I did not have one. We have a transmitter on the top of the mountain, which sends signals to the city (about 30 kilometres away) I can get pretty good signal by turning the antennae regularly. I ended up using a linear actuator and making an antennae rotator with it. So I can turn it around depending on the weather. Seems to work good as long as we remember to record programs that are on the commercial channels so we can speed through all the advertisements.
I guess that it is the same for most folk, the older we get the stranger the society we live in seems.
Cheers
Pete
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Way off topic here im guessin but since we're talkin about 5G, I'm curious what you guys think of this FCC fellows' attitude toward 5G. Minute 2:50 gets kinda interesting. Notice also the "we are not like other countrys" comment.
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Seems that fellow is only interested in making money and lots of it.
It is a bit of a worry that he says that they were going to put the system together without standards or testing.
I guess that they would get in the way of raking in billions of dollars earlier.
Also a shame that seemingly every new version of technology has a military use. I wonder if there will come a time when we humans decide that killing each other is not such a good way to get our way.
Oh I forgot the military machine rakes in billions for the companies that fellow is talking to.
Seems the older I get the less I like the way our race is going
Pete