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Renewable Energy Questions/Discussion => Automation, Controls, Inverters, MPPT, etc => Topic started by: dochubert on December 10, 2019, 08:57:23 pm

Title: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on December 10, 2019, 08:57:23 pm

Hi All,
Received my new dual lcd powerjack 15kw a few days ago.  It was a few days before I got it ready to test.  I pulled the top and was pleased to find nothing loose or broken from shipping.  Did a temporary hookup and no-load test to make sure it wasn't going to blow first try.  Worked fine.  Ran it about an hour.  Ran fine. No problems.  Load test to come soon.

[attach=1]

I did notice in my visual inspection that one of the output side heatsinks has scorch marks on it.  They must have blown this one up once at the factory.  Hope its not a bad sign.

I'll get some inside pics up soon.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on December 11, 2019, 03:29:48 pm
Hi Doc, sounds a bit suspect that the factory would blow their own inverter up, then repair them and send them out.
Maybe someone slipped when testing it. Still one would think they would have cleaned up the heatsink at least.
It will be interesting to hear how it tests out.
Pete
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on December 11, 2019, 05:06:24 pm

Hi Pete,
I've wondered also about which inverters are allowed to be auctioned off, usually much cheaper than regular price. Probably the ones that blew up once or twice before they got some good parts in there. (I would have at least cleaned the heatsink).  I only buy when I can get them cheap at an auction, but this is what I get.  Usually they're fine.  Hope this one is too.  It's definitely the heaviest I've had.

Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on December 25, 2019, 03:57:24 pm
Hi and Merry Christmas!

Had a little time so thought I would post some pics of the inside.

[attach=1]

It's got 2 mainboards.  Twice the fets.  Hope that's a good thing.  With the load split between them maybe each one will run cooler?  It's that big honking transformer in the middle that's gonna get hot.  The 3 fans are high speed fans and boy are they loud!  I really think the old models with 3 smaller transformers in parallel was a better design for heat transfer.  Probably its cheaper for powerjack to put 1 big one in rather than 3 or even 2 smaller transformers in a unit.
Note the metal straps holding the xfmr down.  Those have to go, as well as the bolt, plate and rubber insulators on top and bottom of the xfmr.  I know from my experience with the little 15kw clone inverter that this xfmr won't be able to stay cool enough without better airflow.  So off come the brackets, etc.

[attach=2]

The xfmr rating is not what I'm used to either.  This one is 30v to 260v whereas all my older ones are 32v to 230v.  Considering that the mainboard typically puts out 34.5-35 volts (I'm assuming this one to be the same), the raw xfmr output should be well above 260v!  I realize its easier for a control board to pull down a high voltage than push up a low voltage, but this seems a bit over the top.  Since powerjack is supposed to be winding their own xfmrs nowadays I would think they would keep the numbers closer to the desired levels.  Must be other considerations...

[attach=3][attach=4]

Notice those scorch marks!  Some fets definitely cooked on these boards.  Hopefully they load tested the current set before sending it to me.  I have yet to put a load on it myself.  I have to do mods before moving this heavy sucker to its permanent mounting place as it will be on a shelf about 5 feet up and hard to work on in that spot.  I only want to move it there once!

Next I'll be putting some spacers under the xfmr and adding a fan on top for improved airflow and heat transfer

Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on December 25, 2019, 06:45:53 pm
Hi Doc, just wondering how hard you intend to run the inverter? All that work changing things to get better cooling would suggest that you have some pretty serious loads that you are putting on it.
You must have a pretty big battery bank to run that thing.
Looks a bit chaotic inside doesn't it, strange that they didn't bother to brush off the burn marks before sending it to you.
Was it a freebie? or did they charge more for the carbon.
Have a great new year
Pete
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on December 25, 2019, 11:20:19 pm
Hey Doc,

I have a 24v like that and one heatsink always got real hot running on the first main board in line but fans never kicked in. The temp sensor was on the second heatsink. I switch the sensor over for peace of mind. Man do those cooling fans scream. I replaced the one controlled by the control board with another 24v pc fan and put the low cfm fan next to the coil in case it came on and the board insisted on seeing a tach signal.

Heavy beast ain’t she! I may sell mine and get the 48v version.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on December 26, 2019, 11:43:29 am
Hi Pete and Solarnewbee,

 It does seem chaotic inside this unit.  Wiring to 2 mainboards I guess.  Also the input-outpur board usually attached to the control board is mounted on the front panel just behind the lcd screens instead.  Lots of relatively long wire runs because of the layout.
  My battery bank is (16) 200ah sla batteries, 4 sets of 4 for 48v.  In spring, summer and fall I usually run the whole house on my inverter 24/7.  Normally that's only 800-1000 watts with occasional well pump (1500w) and/or microwave (1100w) here and there.  Plenty of solar now to keep the batteries up.  When my wife decides to use the oven it kicks my total up to 4500w or so jumping to 6000w when the well pump also kicks in (for a short while).  That's about the max it ever gets.  I haven't tried running the electric dryer on it so don't know what it draws.  She hangs clothes out in good weather by choice.
Anyway, improved heat transfer takes some time and work, but should extend the life and reliability of the unit. 

Solarnewbee, if one board runs hotter than the other, to me that means the load isn't being shared equally.  Not the best situation.  I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just disconnect one mainboard, leaving the second as a built in spare.  That way when it eventually blows up (they all do), a few minutes rewiring to the spare and a new lf driver board on the control board, and you are back online.  The question is whether it will run with one mainboard or is something in the control board expecting both to be there?  No idea.  I will be watching temperature on both my mainboards to see if mine share load equally or not.  Also of possible note,\; The ten lead ribbon from mainboard to control board is short for one mainboard and very long for the other.  Wonder if that has something to do with poor load sharing?  Maybe try a long ribbon in place of the shorter and see if the heat load is more balanced?

I'm probably going to change the transformer fan to a lower speed (more quiet) fan and control it separately from the other 2.  Also there will be an added fan on top of the xfmr blowing down into the middle that runs continuously.  The mainboard fans will probably be rewired in series making them run at half speed and much more quiet.  Keeping the mainboards cool shouldn't be a problem with independent controls insuring the fans come on at the right temp.  I've learned never to trust powerjack's fan controls.  Usually they don't turn on fans until things are way hot.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on December 27, 2019, 01:19:57 am
Hi Doc, just wondering if the fans could be controlled from one of those button type temperature switches. Seems pretty simple to bolt one to the heatsink and run the fans off that, or to get a temperature controller to run the fans.
I have  some temperature controller boards that I got from ebay that have a digital display of temperature and an onboard relay. The temperature the relay comes in at is adjustable. I use on on my car as an over temperature alarm. ( i have had two cylinder heads destroyed over the years from an engine overheating).
I use another to monitor my solar hot water tank temperature. The boards are really cheap, only about $6 from memory.
Pete
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on December 27, 2019, 01:23:18 am
Hi Doc these are the controllers I use, there are other ones that run of mains that may be more suitable for your inverter as these are 12 volt.
I have used these controllers to turn fans on in Power Star W7 inverters too, they seem to work fine.
Have a great new year
Pete

[https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-2pcs-W1209-Digital-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller-Board-DC-12V-50-110-C/153512072802?hash=item23be085662:g:bx0AAOSwk8xc9N4c]
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 27, 2019, 12:25:40 pm
If you put a low value resistor in series with the fan output, you can have a 2 speed fan system.  Sort of low speed (aka quiet) for 90% of the time, high speed when  it working....

I have this setup on one of my inverters with the w1209 and it works a treat..
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on December 27, 2019, 03:54:42 pm
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the link.  Yours are almost like the ones I use, also from ebay.  They show the current temp plus the hi and low setpoints.
I've been using these temp controllers for years on all my inverters, including my gridtie units, to run fans.  Great minds think alike, eh?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-10A-Digital-LED-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Control-Switch-Probe/262904072432?epid=584518137&hash=item3d364dc8f0:g:xGEAAOSwsW9Y0QEZ

And I use the resistor/2 speed setup on some of them also.  Thanks noneyabussiness.  Another great mind!

Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on December 30, 2019, 11:40:03 pm
Hey doc,

My 2 main power board fans are controlled by a snap sensor that resembles a to-220 transistor just bolted to the heatsink. I don’t remember the Celsius setting on it but it turns on quite often since I moved it over. The control board only controls the fan behind the coil that’s a regular pc fan. The other 2 are 24vdc. Yours might be 48vdc ?, 10-25w resistors might be in order for speed change I’m guessing.

On another note I bought this a few years ago to run on propane as backup. I think Oz bought the 48v version. Never did get a chance to install it.

SN
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on December 31, 2019, 02:54:09 pm
Hi Solarnewbee,
I think the temp switches powerjack uses are 45 degree C.  Too hot for me.  (I like to have fans kick in around 37-38C.)  How much load are you running?

Yes my fans are 48v on this inverter.  Used to be true that whatever voltage your inverter runs on, your fans would be that voltage also.  These days you can't be sure what voltage fans powerjack is putting in their inverters.  The Upower (powerjack clone) 48v/15kw inverter came with a 12v fan, which must mean the fan voltage at the control board is selectable.  There is no obvious selection point, though.  I was told by Sean at Genetry Solar that powerjack was going to standardize, 12v fans on all inverters.  Either that is not correct or they are still switching over.  Perhaps using up old stock.

I vaguely remember when powerjack was selling generators.  Didn't know they were available with a 48v output or I might have bought one myself.  Apparently not selling them these days.  Nobody on ebay seems to have one with 48v.  Guess I'll eventually have to make my own like Pete and some others have done.


Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on January 09, 2020, 05:06:49 pm
Hi All,
Found this 1 inch thick rubber wheel at an estate sale for 50 cents.
[attach=1]

Cut 4 wedges like the one in this pic and put them under the transformer (minus the bracket also)
[attach=2]

Hard to get a pic that shows the wedges under the trans but you get the idea.  Once its in place this inverter won't be moved so no need for transformer brackets that hold in heat.
Next is to mount a fan on top of the transformer and change the fan behind it.  The wedges give room for airflow through and under, hopefully allowing use of slower, quieter fans.  The two transformer fans will be on whenever the inverter is on. The back fan will be 2 speed kicked up to high speed by independent temp control, sensed on the transformer.
The other 2 fans, one behind each mainboard, will be series connected to slow and quiet them.  They will still operate when the pj control says to, but each mainbord will have an independent temp controller sensing it.  Either controller will turn on both fans.  Should be adequate cooling, but will adjust as necessary.
That's 3 temperature controllers I'm adding to this inverter.  I do like to know what's going on at a glance.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on February 02, 2020, 10:39:54 pm
Hi Doc!

Lookin good there. Got some good ideas there. I finally jumped in and bought one too. I wasn’t going to but I says to the wife that if I ever do that I could buy it logged thru her points club portal to eBay and she was like why not now? What better incentive does a guy need? 😝.

My 24v 15kw is in a server cabinet on a sliding shelf up high so I gotta find help to swap out. I never thought about raising up the coil. I like it. I control my temperatures thru sensors that report thru a cloud server and I set temp limits and action to take. I create a button in the site for fans so when the temp reaches say 120f then fan button on then set for temp drop and action taken. Sensors for every item in the inverter. Let me know if your interested it simple I will give you a link.

Can’t wait to see what you do next since I got one too.

Good luck til next time!
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on February 05, 2020, 01:27:24 pm
Hi Solarnewbee,
This is the first day I've been able to access this site for a week.  I got the Anotherpower header and a message saying I was banned because I "look like a bot".  Anyone else have problems?  Today I tried and everything is normal.

Anyway, glad to hear you got your new inverter.  Mine will also sit up high on a ledge (5 ft) so will need help when ready to put it in place for use.  Heavy sucker!  I've been very slow in getting mine ready to use, probably because I have my older unit that is working fine.  Could it be because I'm lazy?  Nahhhh....
Also, with winter here we don't get to use it as much.  Short days and long nights and lots of clouds lately.  Snowing today.

Bottom line is no new progress to report.  At least I can get back on the site!

I do have a question.  If your controls are wifi or cloud-based, what happens when the internet or your wireless goes down?  Check out Genetry Solar on youtube. He is developing a replacement lcd for powerjack inverters that is wifi controllable with many setpoints user adjustable that we couldn't access before.  I'm waiting till he gets more testing done before jumping into that one.  Interesting though.  I prefer my inverters to be independent of outside influence whenever possible.



Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Wolvenar on February 05, 2020, 06:43:56 pm
Unless you are using a commercial  VPN, the false ban should have only been about 42 hours.

As I posted in the bulletin board:
Sorry this was not intentional or meant to be personal.
Recently this forum has had a flood of spam bots finding their way past the spam protections.

In tweaking the automated anti bot/spammer a rule got put in that was missing a character.
Instead of banning a single email address, it banned an entire domain.

Also, since spammers and bots use VPN *a lot*, a significant amount of the commercial VPN IP are blocked from signing up a new user.
Modify message
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on February 06, 2020, 04:03:30 pm
Thanks for the info Wolvenar.  I figured it was some kind of error.  Glad it didn't last too long. 
I'm sure it takes a lot of behind the scenes work to keep this forum going.  Thanks for your efforts.  I'm sure everybody here appreciates it.  I sure do.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on February 07, 2020, 03:29:32 pm
Hi doc,

I have a gsm module attached to my rpi4 with the SIM card from my iPad that has unlimited data. I was worried about that very thing you point out as the iot site that’s a non pay site was going to make triggers a part of the local system but never did. Scheduling is the only thing that is local. I tried a router that takes SIM cards but is was a piece of crap so I returned it.

I thought about starting a thread but the project and work has me worn out so I’ll follow along and learn/help if I can. Interesting so far and no matter how smart I am or get someone always teaches me new stuff. If I can help someone with new or better or stop stupid or even the eternal celestial dirt nap 😝 then that’s good too I think. Besides, more typing for you ha! 😂

Take care my friend

Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Wolvenar on February 09, 2020, 01:36:09 pm
Solarnewbee

Can you share the gsm module you use please
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on February 11, 2020, 05:23:15 pm
Hey Doc,

Are you a doc btw or they just call you that? Medic, corpsman?

Anyway pic to follow of an extra I have. This one has microphone and headphone jacks but of no use to me. Antenna comes off and I extended it outside the server cab.

Are you going to try the Oz mod with the choke? I found the e-chokes and the bobbins somewhere and could locate them again if you want. If I can’t find them I have extras, I’ll give you one. The 220v side always did read 0w and the 110v side went from 97w to 2w according to PJ algorithm.

Gcsupermarket on eBay is where I bought the gsm quite some time ago. Just have to order a vintage SIM card 🤔.

Rock on can’t wait!
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on March 26, 2020, 08:19:45 pm
Hello All,
Hope everyone is safe and healthy.  As of today we are supposed to stay home for 21 days.  God has spoken! (Or at least the Governor of Idaho)  That tearing sound you are hearing is the shredding of the constitution.

Since last posting, finally got this big powerjack into its place, connected up all my fan controls, and set up to run half the house for first actual load test.  Ran a minute and a half, then blew out all the led light bulbs in my basement.  Shut it down. Cussed a little.  Hi voltage episode.  Now output voltage drifts around from 204 to 248 as read on the front lcd screen (with no load) so output voltage control is kaput.  Voltage is probably spiking much higher than what the meter shows to be blowing out led bulbs.  Very disappointing.  Later discovered a fried surge protector and my old 1990 garage door opener was toast. 

Spoke first with Sean at Genetry Solar (powerjack warranty repair guy).  I told him what happened and about the imbalance of the 2 mainboards and he said there is nothing in the powerjack control board for balancing the two mainboards.  He stated that sometimes (in his exprience) the 2 boards tend to fight each other.  He also said for his own personal unit he has removed the second mainboard and runs with just one. I was thinking along those lines already.  Now its definite.

Powerjack is sending me a new control board, so will wait for that.  While waiting will be removing second mainboard and rewiring another little issue I didn't notice before.  Some bright boy at powerjack thought it was a good idea to connect the 2 breakers on the front panel in parallel!  Might as well have no breakers at all. 2 breakers wired in parallel means its likely neither will ever trip at rated value.   I usually rewire the battery charger breaker into the L2 leg since I always disconnect the battery charge setup on my powerjacks.  This unit didn't have battery charge function (fine with me!) so I get 2 breakers in parallel on the L1 leg instead.  And these guys are the experts?  Makes me feel a little better about my own stupid mistakes...

Anyway, since will have just the 1 mainboard in the case, might turn the fan on the empty side around and use as an exhaust fan.  Alternatively, I'm considering not using the top cover at all.  Instead building an exhaust plenum over the whole top of the unit from styrofoam board and piping the hot air outside.  Add a separate input cool air plenum from outside to the back of the unit to keep my utility room from cooking up (as much) in summer.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on April 04, 2020, 10:42:03 am
Hey Doc!

Glad to see your project progressing. You didn’t grid tie this did you? Did yours come with a charging board or did I read that wrong?  Anyway I got mine in too just grunted and groaned lowered the sliding server shelf down and slid it in. You think I can just unplug the ribbon cable going to the second main board to take it out of the picture in case I want to incorporate it back quickly later?  That top fan I used some brass standoffs and screwed it to the xfmr bracket so the top cover comes off easily. The fans sure go on and off often. Waiting for a pwm Control from AliExpress that runs 4 48v fans. Takes 2 months for China stuff to arrive now.

Piping the hot air outside sounds like a great idea. How about dryer vent hose? Intake and exhaust?

BTW pm me your address I will mail you this gsm module as I may never use it since it’s a spare. Still looking for the python and Arduino codes I’m using. They’re lost in the great github beyond.
 
Pics please when you can

Stay safe everybody!

Later Doc
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on April 04, 2020, 09:50:17 pm

Hi Solarnewbee,
I'm glad to hear you are going to use just one mainboard.  I think the instability of the two in tandem was why my control board lost voltage control.  The fact that the two boards ran at different temps means to me that they were not balanced, and possibly fighting each other, thereby wasting power.  I too thought about just unplugging the 2nd mainboard but decided to remove it since its not that hard to do with this big case.  Also, unless you disconnect the dc input to that 2nd board it will use some power and could suffer damage if the first board pops.  (Probably not but who knows)

[attach=1]

Also the extra space should help with cooling the transformer.  Connected the transformer wires from the 2nd mainboard to the remaining board.  Thinking about adding one more positive wire to the dc input side of the remaining board too.  My older units all had 3 pos wires and 6 neg wires. 

I played around a bit with running my gridtie unit with my powerjacks last summer.  It seemed to work ok but I never felt comfortable doing it that way.  I was always afraid the gridtie unit might damage the powerjack or vice versa.  I know Oz and some others did well with theirs but those guys are way more knowledgable than me about that particular configuration.  So I can still do it on need but prefer to run straight off grid as much as possible.  With my current setup I should have more than enough capacity to power my house under most conditions so don't plan to experiment more with the gridtie/powerjack merging. 

No charging function on this one.  The charger board also is the output board so its there but with several empty spots where charging components aren't there. 

Did yours have the two fuses/breakers wired in parallel like my unit?  Still shaking my head about that one.  I rewired them one in each leg.   Also the breakers are 70a!  With that rating they are really only good as short ckt protection.  I run my powerjacks through 3 pole 32a output breakers for good isolation when out of circuit and never tripped one.  32a should be fine as I'm realistic about the real capacity of a "15kw" powerjack. 

Just for fun one day I tried using the dryer while running the house on the older powerjack I'm using now.  It ran it but with the other house loads at the time I read around 7000w total and the red light on the endpanel of the pj started blinking and beeping so turned off the dryer after about 1 minute.  This new unit will probably do 7000w without complaining after its repaired but have no intention of trying to run the dryer on it.  Or the central air unit.  Both hooked only to grid now.

Stay safe and healthy
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on April 18, 2020, 06:08:23 pm

Today I received my warranty replacement parts for the big inverter.  Got a new v9 control board and a new charger/output board.  I have to check a couple of things before installing.

The control board has a 24v sticker on it.  My pj is 48v.  Hmmmm.
It is my understanding that all v8 and v9 control boards can be used for 12, 24, and 48 volts depending on jumper settings.  There are 5 sets of jumpers;
One on the source board.  One on the protection board.  One on the bottom side of the signal board.  And finally two on the bottom of the cpu board.  All of mine were set for 48v so should be good.  Gotta peel off that darn sticker.

The charger board.  My original had no charge components and was just an output board.  The replacement is a full charger board.  There is a large contactor and a small daughterboard with resistors not present on my original, so likely not needed (by me).  I'll probably just remove the two components. 
Two large caps are in a different spot and have a wire attached that ends in a ring terminal, and no instruction for where it connects.
Then there are the dip switches.  Function not labeled.  Ten places.  My original had 1, 4, and 6 on and the replacement has them all off.  Don't know if that's because of the different components, or if its for a different voltage (24v like the control board?), or if they just forgot to set them before sending it out.

So I have some questions emailed to Sean on these things.  Hopefully will be cleared up soon.

[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]

Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on April 18, 2020, 11:38:17 pm
Hi Doc, seems that many of these Eastern electronics devices forget to send or have any meaningful instructions. Even when they do have instructions it appears at times that someone is having a got at them by translating the instructions into gobbleygook.
Pity some of them are quite reliable others not so.
My PJ has been working well for a few years now. Then I don't ask much of it. Being supposedly 5kw on 12 volt is pretty ridiculous as the best it can manage is really about 2kw. Even then it struggles.
Good luck with getting it sorted.
And good luck with the Corona virus stuff. Seems like the US is being hit pretty hard.
Cheers
Pete
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on April 19, 2020, 09:54:58 pm
Hey Doc,

As far as the dip switches go mine are all set To off. My board is a new version and pretty much bare. I believe the dip switches are for voltage adjustments. This may have been what caused trouble for your led bulbs. It appears the switches are tied to the resistor ladder next to it. On the other hand it could select hz and battery voltage but I’m leaning towards voltage adjustments since PowerJack had a lot of feedback about folks wanting adjustability and they mention that in ads and the manual. Misplaced my manual somewhere so I’m pulling out my hair looking for it. The push button and 2 dial switches on the front are still a mystery. There was mention of voice and pressing the button to select hertz and voltage etc but not sure. It’s outputting 60hz but I still don’t understand why the don’t ship these to the US at 240v. Wonder if anyone has ever brought that to their attention. As far as 110v goes I won’t need it so no adjustment needed there. Adjusting 220v up to at least 230v would be advantageous in the Philippines. You should be able to adjust yours for 240v and naturally bring up 110v to a healthy 118-120v. Disappointing is the fact that mine is off grid only and I really would like to have one with a built in charger for rainy days and no wind days.

Do you connect yours directly to the grid? I asked the seller about connecting mine to the grid and he said it would blow the output board. It seems they stopped selling any large grid tie inverters. Haven’t seen much over 4kw that’s grid tie.

I checked my breakers for tightness only when I got it because my 24v had loose screw terminals. I haven’t traced them out yet. I blew out everything with air for good measure and turned it on and voila it worked. Never have have had any problems with operation except the time the 24v unit showed up bent with broken fans. Then one time I back fed 24v thru the processor board and burnt a copper trace. I solder a piece of 32awg wire in place and was back in business. I’m still trying to figure out what the point of having 2  power boards. I know the coil has been wound a specific way for a specific amount of wattage. How many windings do the power boards drive and how many won’t be driven if I disconnect one power board. Will I be cutting my rated wattage in half? Questions I don’t know the answers to but Doc that’s what your here for ;).

Regards!



Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on April 19, 2020, 11:26:43 pm
Hi Pete,
So far we're doing ok here in Idaho, virus-wise.  Could change I guess...
My oldest pj purchased in 2013 still works and heats water for us every day.  It is still on all original fets and stuff.  Never a problem.  Hopefully it will run for many more years.

I just noticed something while looking at the pics of the dip switches.  The dip switch on the new board is installed backwards!  Also there is no component at the Adjust5 position.  Wonder if that component (cap?) is important?
Sure would be nice to have a schematic.

Hey Solarnewbee!
The right hand pot on the front of your inverter is for output voltage adjustment.  There is a pic in my post "2019 48v/15kw Sort-of Powerjack" that shows this.  (Different inverter but same layout)
No, there's really no good reason for 2 mainboards.  Its the transformer that really determines your output wattage.  When you take out the 2nd mainboard, move the transformer wires that were connected to the output heatsinks to the remainng mainboard output heatsinks.  (Match the colors up or you would short it out.)  Then all your transformer wires are still utilized and your power level should be unchanged.  Also your mainboard  should run somewhat cooler as it won't be fighting the extra mainboard.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on April 22, 2020, 10:13:49 pm
Hey doc.

Good timing, right before I read your latest I was on powerjacks website and saw the manual they have there, go figure right. The push button is the hertz. I started to buy the charging board and saw that the boards available aren’t anything like I have in my unit. My control board is one piece.

My only worry about connecting that much transformer to one power board is it might be too much for it if I’m pulling 6 or 7 Kw continuously. That and trying to shed all that heat. One of the previous processors was an Atmel 2560 like the one on the Arduino 2560 (lots of digital i/o ports to drive gets)and I’m guessing the code has that second power board kick in when theres a call for more current. Will the control board push the transformer past say 4kw if 8kw is a reasonable continuous output as designed if I pull 8kw and pwrbd2 is missing will the control board default to crank pwrbd1 up to achieve the desired load? Does that make sense? 🤔

Things to ponder
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on April 27, 2020, 11:27:54 pm
Hi SN,
The inverter will still respond exactly the same to loads with only one mainboard installed.  That is actually the real problem with powerjack's dual board models.  There is no balancing or load sharing function in the control board.  It doesn't even know there are 2 hooked to it.  That's why some inverters (like mine) can't handle it.  The 2 boards are probably not  quite matched in some way, resulting in an imbalance.  An imbalance could also be the result of different length transformer wires.  Removing 1 board is actually making the unit run cooler and probably with a better efficiency level.  Even the output sine wave is likely cleaner (although I haven't checked that.  Just assuming).   One board has ample potential power handling capability to put out 6-7 kw, as long as you can dissipate the heat produced.
Likewise the transformer will get exactly as hot with 1 board at a specified power output as it would with 2 boards at the same power output.  It might actually run a bit cooler.  The mainboard drives the transformer, not the other way around.  If you're interested in a cooler transformer, I recommend removing the mounting bolt and plates, raising it up on blocks, and blowing a fan down the middle.  Doing that will actually improve the transformer's power rating/ power handling capability.  Theorectically, if you could remove most of whatever heat the transformer produces, you could output almost any power level the mainboard is capable of producing.  The control board has setpoints that are influenced by heatsink temp and transformer temp, but note that it only looks at the temp of 1 mainboard.  A red flag there!

Hope some of that makes sense
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on May 02, 2020, 05:05:04 pm

Well, as usual. it appears I am on my own.  My questions about the charger/output board are not answered in a way that gives me any confidence. 
I sent my questions to both Powerjack and to Sean at Genetrysolar.  Sean didn't bother to answer.  Twice.  Powerjack didn't know what SW1 was despite my description with location and a picture, and the fact that it is the only switch set on the charger board. Their board! Finally got the answer  that I should use the same settings as on my original board, even though the boards are different.  Didn't seem right to me.  Asked what the switches did and got this from powerjack;

 "that is to control the overload output watts, man adjust it, then if overload then the inverter will lid red light and will be alarm, thank you!"

Despite the language problem, the answer just doesn't seem to apply.  So I plan to change just the control board and see what I get.  If voltage control is restored then I'm good.  If not maybe I'll try to get to Sean on a voice call.  I really need to know what those dip switches accomplish.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on May 02, 2020, 09:31:53 pm
Wow Doc, seems that after sales service is not one of their strong points.
I guess that cheap stuff is like that, they just build it and hope we buy another one if it doesn't work.
Good luck with setting it up
Pete
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on May 03, 2020, 05:05:04 am
Hey Doc,

My thought is, since everyone was asking for adjustments to output wattage limits and like Oz did one time by fooling  the board by adjusting the ct coil input. They added the resistor ladder and dip switches so you can change the point at which the inverter goes into alarm and shuts down. My 8kw wouldn’t go past 3kw until I put a trim pot voltage divider inline with the ct coil ( those thing can bite you ya know 😝) and now I get quite a bit more continuous wattage. In fact it doesn’t shut down in the toroid get overheated. That’s the one time I took away the rice cooker. It was the shower water heater or the rice cooker, tough love. Summer in the Philippines water comes out hot then they get their rice cooker back.

I don’t have anything here big enough to run on 240v to test my theory but I would say only sw1-5 are used given there’s 5 resisters nearby. Start with them off and push it see where it goes. Start a graph or whatever.

Best of luck great hear from you. Waiting to hear again soon

Take care bud.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on May 06, 2020, 10:14:13 pm

As of this evening I am stopped and waiting for parts (Again!) on the other older inverter mod, so tomorrow will get back on this one.  I need to get my magnifying glass, sit down and try to trace out what those dip switches do on that output board.  Btw next to sw1 there are the 5 resistors on one board and 5 resistors plus a cap on the other board.  Another difference.  Also, the sw1 piece itself is mounted backwards on one board, so you can't go by the switch numbers.  At least until we figure out which way is correct.

Also can start changing out the control board.  Hoping that fixes the voltage control issue without changing the output board at all.  I've already removed the second mainboard.

Onward through the fog!
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on May 09, 2020, 10:34:58 pm

My day to notice things;

I was looking at the replacement control board and noted that powerjack had sent it with a plug-in ground wire.  The old control boards had a wire soldered to the board about 12 inches long with a large ring terminal on the end to connect to the negative battery connection. 
So this new board has a standard 2 pin plug with red and black wire, just like a fan wire.  Except the two wires both connect to the ring terminal end.  Gives a handier connection I guess.  Plugs to control board in the corner near the ribbon cable from mainboard.

Well the point of this ramble is the original control board that lost voltage control has no ground wire connected.  It's not just laying there unplugged.  Powerjack forgot to put one on this unit.  Wondering if that lack of ground connection contributed to the hi voltage incident I experienced with this inverter.  I'm leaning towards thinking it did.

The other thing I just noticed is that Solarnewbee's inverter seems to have a completely different control/charger/output board set.  Version 10 maybe?  Mine is v9.  I was just looking at some of his pics a few posts back. 
His SW1 switch set for example.  My SW1 connects to 4 resistors and one board has a capacitor in the 5th spot.  The other board has no component in the 5th spot. 
SN's board has 10 resistors.  With all switches off maybe that's why he's had no overload alarms/shutdowns?  On the other hand, it appears to me that all 10 switches are actually on if I'm seeing the pic correctly.  Let us know SN

Bottom line.  Haven't changed the control board out yet.  Tomorrow is another day.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on May 10, 2020, 08:01:03 pm

Today changing out that control board.
Note in the pic below that there is nothing plugged into the 2 pin plug next to the plug for the rainbow cable from the mainboard, bottom left of control board.

[attach=1]

What's not plugged in here is that ground wire that should connect to the neg battery terminal.  Powerjack forgot to install one.  I failed to notice that it was missing till now.  Did that contribute to the hi voltage event/failure?  Probably.

Pulled the old control board and noted that resistor 117-1 is blown out on the source board.  Nothing else obvious so will probably get a new source board and lfdriver and test it out... someday.

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

In the first of the above pics, note the blown resistor 117-1 and two ribbon cable connectors for two mainboards.  The replacement board (second pic) shows only one connector.  I guess powerjack must have known I was going to use only one mainboard (I didn't tell them!).

So changed control boards and made sure of connections, including that ground connector plugged in.  Crossed my fingers, connected to batteries,  and turned it on.  It runs!

[attach=4][attach=5]
[attach=6]

Good sinewave.  Not going to put this one on the house till I'm reasonably sure it won't blow my stuff up again.  Loaded it with a 1500w heater plugged into the 110v receptacle and a 200w 220v heater plugged into the 220v receptacle.  Ran that for about 3 hours.  Voltage drifted about 2 or 3 volts. 


[attach=7][attach=8]

Not as rock steady as I would like but not spiking high.  Tomorrow I will run a cord out to my freezer in the garage and run it along with the heaters for a few hours.  Something besides resistive loads.


Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on May 10, 2020, 08:40:11 pm
Forgot to mention that the frequency drifted a bit too.  59.7 to 60.34hz is what I noticed.  Usually don't see that with powerjacks.  Frequency is usually always steady - 60 point 1.  Or 59.9.  Whatever, but steady.  Not changing/drifting.  Maybe I should change that charger/output board too.
It's a thought.
I still want to know what those dip switches do.  I want to know before I change the charger boards out.  Hate having to guess on this stuff.
The smaller charger boards used on other model inverters have no dip switches.  It's nice to have a choice but would like to know what the choice is! (and how to set the dip switches properly.)
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on May 11, 2020, 02:24:56 am
Well done Doc, maybe powerjack are actually a disparate group of back yard electronics assemblers. They seem to just build what they feel like, not much standardisation.
Anyway glad to see you got it running.
Hope it runs for many years now
Pete
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: dochubert on May 11, 2020, 08:56:24 pm
Thanks Pete,
I'm not satisfied with it yet, though.  Ran it some today loaded with my freezer and an 800 watt heater and a 400 watt heater.  Voltage wasn't too bad but seemed less steady today than yesterday so shut it down after only a few minutes.  If I can get some dip switch settings from Sean, I want to change that charger board too.
After losing another shipment of my parts today, hoping he'll be helpful about the settings.
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: solarnewbee on May 13, 2020, 11:56:10 pm
Hey Doc,

Quick note, before it blew stuff up, did you set the hertz? Dumb question but the Navy and all that. Led bulbs don’t like 50 if they’re made for 60. Press of a button is all it takes as you already know but I don’t remember if you mentioned discussing it. If it’s working don’t diddle with it 😝.

I’ll hit you back soon
Title: Re: Just got my new 48v/15kw powerjack
Post by: Pete on July 25, 2020, 07:38:47 pm
Hi Doc, I was wondering if you have load tested the Powerjack to see what it can really run.
I saw a test on youtube of a fellow who had a 15kw powerjack, he only managed to get it to run out to about 5kw before it blew the fuse in the inverter. He reckons that they are really only a 5kw inverter and that the 15kw is the surge rating.
I did read in the specs that the other rating they have ( some massive figure) was only for 1mSecond. Not much use really.
I have just bought an 8kw 24 volt Powerjack. I am going to change my system over to 24 volts from the current 12 volt.
Mainly so that my air compressor can be run now and then off the inverter and also adding another set of batteries will double my storage capacity.
Just curious as to how your inverter is behaving and what load it can actually run.
Hope all is good
Pete