Author Topic: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System  (Read 14237 times)

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Offline Pete

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2021, 03:16:00 pm »
Thanks Noneya, that is what I needed to know.
Seems that the TVS diodes are really cheap on aliexpress. Thanks for the link.
Solar newbee, good luck with the repair.
Make sure that you follow the advice on modifiying the 8010 board.
I used a very sharp pair of snips to cut the legs off the 393 chip. Then just used a soldering iron and some solder braid to clean up afterwards.
I laid my soldering iron across R4 until it got hot enough then used a small screwdriver to push it off the pad.
Then bridged where C19 is.
So far my inverter is running great.
I don't have any grid connection though. Lighhunters idea of a contactor is probably the best, it makes sure that there is no possibility of grid connecting to the inverter output. Also gives a very short time delay between the two.
Hope you get it sorted, keep us informed of what you find while fixing it. It is good to know what the likely suspects are when things go bang.
Pete

Offline dochubert

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2021, 03:55:48 pm »

Hi guys,
I've been watching this conversation with interest as I tried an 8010 48v board awhile back, then put it aside.  Had not done any of the mods you are discussing here.  Mine worked beautifully until I loaded it above 2500w at which point it seemed to lose output voltage regulation, frying some led bulbs and a surge protector (didn't blow up tho) 
I was just looking at the link Noneya posted for his, which brought up this question;
Should I be using a 60v model or a 48v model?
My lifepo4 batteries normally stay between 51 and 56v.  The link says this regarding transformers:

Quote
48V battery power supply with AC 220V to AC output 24-28V transformer. Power 12000W

60V battery power supply with AC 220V ro AC output 29-34V transformer. Power 15000W

My transformers are 32v/230v powerjack toroids.  Link doesn't appear to give the battery voltage ranges of the 48v or 60v versions.  The link specifically mentions using a 32v transformer on a 48v inverter, apparently warning about lack of voltage regulation.

Quote
Please be sure to pay attention to the buyer: in the above battery power supply voltage. If the transformer is not matched (such as the normal 48 volt battery power supply to use AC 220 rpm AC output 24-28V transformer. As a result, you used AC 220 rpm AC output 32V transformer) In this way, the inverter will have an output voltage of 220V, which is not regulated. Therefore, it is important to select the voltage parameter of the transformer.

  Sounds like the 60v version would be a better choice for my transformers, assuming it would handle 51-56v, which seems doubtful.  Maybe I should just stay with the 48v version and do Poida's mods.  What do you think?
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Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2021, 04:53:05 pm »
using the 60v should be fine, they have a adjustable " low " voltage disconnect,  which can be bypassed easily.. alternatively,  if accessible,  you can add turns to the " 240v "side of the transformer... i just reduced the output voltage to 230v on mine as the transformer is not easily modified,  which unless extremely loaded at night the voltage doesn't move ( even then has caused me no issues , bit your mileage may vary) .. considering the mains voltage changes quite dramatically normally,  most appliances dont mimd..

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2021, 04:55:27 pm »
just to clarify,  the eg8010 doesn't have as good dynamic range as the PJ's ... why the difference...

Offline solarnewbee

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2021, 10:31:14 pm »
I am now sure it got connected to the grid. Not that I was trying. Seems my ATS allow it. So Installed my new 9kw PJ and it died a week later. Seemed to be a cooling problem. They only put in 1 48v fan so I installed 3 speed controlled fans one on the power board and two on the transformer. I think the 48v source on the LF board is unreliable so the fans quit. Another point could be it was in battery charging mode which causes 1kw increase during use and when the sun came up the 60 amps coming in caused some trouble but I don’t really know how a PJ charger works. Anyway PJ is sending free replacement  parts.

I replaced the ATS with a contractor activated by the inverter. It’s one I used before successfully. I have a brand new mechanical ATS 100a I may use next.

PJ LF boards fry when the mosfets fry. What about 8010 board?, anything like that the same? Should I order a new one? Mine has 2 rows of pins and a lcd screen.
SN

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Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2021, 11:58:12 pm »
as stated, anything connects to the grid, it will die.. even the eg8010... Oz gave up on the grid charge " feature " early on... the change in zero cross is enough to blow anything, and they don't do it smoothly..

may i suggest one of these, for charging....

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EXTRA10-OFF-ROSSI-Stick-Welder-200-Amp-Inverter-Welding-Machine-MMA-/143497597275?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0

at most 48v charging requires a turn or 2 added to the internal " transformer " and it becomes a current controlled battery charger.. very efficient etc...

Offline lighthunter

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #96 on: December 12, 2021, 07:31:07 am »
"PJ LF boards fry when the mosfets fry. What about 8010 board?, anything like that the same? Should I order a new one? Mine has 2 rows of pins and a lcd screen."

To repair the 8010 board, the power section repair is similar to PJ, replace all fets, measure and or replace all resistors, check inspect caps. Repair any other damage as necessary. The control board is where its different. For $5 you just unplug, toss the old one and plug in the new one. Of course dont forget any changes you need... x393, 60hz 50hz etc.

"just to clarify,  the eg8010 doesn't have as good dynamic range as the PJ's ... why the difference..."

Its because by default the egs002/8010 has selected unipolar switching.  The 8010 has the ability to output bipolar switching if you prefer. I cant recommend it. For one, the voltage feedback on the egs002 board is different so you would need to change your circuit to allow it. For two, im pretty sure the reliability be reduced to the PJ, you would experience unexplained failures as many have had with PJ. The bipolar switching scheme is a bit more stressful to the fets. Why the toroid is noisier and why the idle current is higher. This stress is worst at no load idle.

For anyone reading this and thinking about automatic transfering your home between grid and your inverter. The solution is simple but it can be hard and expensive to get there.

#1 choose a large double pole double throw contactor with at least a 1.5mm point gap 1/16" I use JQX-62F 80A

#2 use some means of detecting sync of the two sources and trigger the transfer only when they match. Below is a photo of circuit ive used with no issues.

Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline lighthunter

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #97 on: December 12, 2021, 07:41:04 am »
The phase align circuit is simply monitoring two ac sources. When the phase relationship between the two sources are zero there is no output voltage to drive the relay coil and it drops the relay out. Signaling its ok to transfer.
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline dochubert

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2021, 03:39:21 pm »
I think the 48v source on the LF board is unreliable so the fans quit.

If there was a fan connected to the "Fan" connector on the pj control board, it likely was a 12v fan.  To my knowledge, all "Fan" connection points on pj controllers newer than v8 are 12v regardless of voltage of inverter.  If your fans were not connected to the "Fan" connection, then they were probably 48v fans and connected to the main 48v terminals.  Sometimes pj does it with 48v fans and sometimes they use 12v fans.  No consistency.  Independent fan controls are always the better choice with pj inverters, whatever fans you choose.  And you are right, one fan isn't enough.
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Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2021, 04:35:00 pm »
I use one of these to cool the mosfet board... with a diy arduino temperature controlled circuit... they MOVE some air, but never had it maxed, and ive set it to speed up at 37°c and max out at 55°c...

AU $25.21  10%OFF | for delta PFC1212DE PFB1212UHE 120*120*38 mm 12038 1238 12CM DC 12V 4.80A 5500 RPM 252.85 CFM server inverter cooling fan
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m02dp0w

the beauty is they interface directly with 5v logic on their pwm line, so no complex step up/down logic to worry about...


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Automatic-Temperature-Control-CPU-Fan-Speed-DC-Controller-12V-PWM-PC-Board-IVN9-/403248193774?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0

you could try something like this, I bought two to test and never got around to it... hope this helps

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2021, 06:40:39 pm »
oh and if you want a 12v power supply for your fans, thats independent of everything,  and will handle the fan loads / 48v dc + , highly recommend one of these, for the price I brought two, one for spare, but never needed...

AU $4.69  49%OFF | Converters Electric Buck voltage Converter DC36V/48V/60V/72V To 12V DC Module Car Power Supply Voltage For Electric Vehicle
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq9EVkK

it uses a sepic topology, very efficient etc... again, hope this helps

Offline dochubert

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2021, 12:09:23 pm »
oh and if you want a 12v power supply for your fans, thats independent of everything,  and will handle the fan loads / 48v dc + , highly recommend one of these

Those power supplies are great!  I've had several in use for years for various applications and never had one fail yet!  Some run fans and others power controls/indicators and always a good steady output.  There is a 15a version available but the regular 10a version works for most of my needs.
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Offline solarnewbee

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2021, 11:11:12 pm »

Got my PJ going again thanks to Helen at PJ-ville. Free part are great until FedEx adds on a processing fee. Put all my temp controlled fans back on and direct connected to the battery connectors. I need to add a relay to shut them down when the inverter shuts down otherwise they suck energy from 2am-ish to 8am. I had a WiFi switch tied to the old 15kw to turn off before sunrise and back on when the sun peeks over the houses. Also removed off that annoying buzzer and tied in a jumbo pilot light in the hallway.

I’m back to using the old mechanical ATS, the one with 2 disconnect breakers inside. One is physically locked out when the other is made. The experiment is over. I ordered a new one but the first screw terminal I turn broke off so it’s going back. Cheap Chinese junk at $20. Looks like I’ll have to pay double that to get a better quality to have a spare.

I’m almost finished rebuilding the sunyima inverter. Took long enough for the parts to come in. Those mosfets are not cheap, around $47 for 30 and that was after 2 attempts failed because they sent TO220 fets not the TO247 as advertised. Still waiting on the 100uf 25v electro caps. Can’t believe I didn’t have some around. Order 50 to use 4 geez. Ordered 2 1/2 weeks ago and they are still down in Manila.

Turns out that the egs board I have with double row of pins makes no difference. All the pins are connected front to back so I order 2 new ones with the lcd. Hopefully my programmer lcd still work. There is a seller on AliExpress coming out with the same inverter type with and lcd that’s more comprehensive and looks like the egs board is on the lcd. 3”x4” lcd portrait style. Tried to buy one but their not ready.
SN

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Offline rossw

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #103 on: December 30, 2021, 03:25:06 am »
I don't mean to be condescending, but you need to make a choice.
Do you want a reliable, robust, properly-designed and built system, or do you want a cheap-as-chips, unreliable, probably knocked-off-and-cheapened thing?

I have lived 100% offgrid now for almost 20 years.
I run two companies, a house with my family, two workshops, somewhere in the order of 230 computers that run 24/7, and all the things I'd consider "essential" for our existence. Water pumps so we have water. Effluent treatment. Light for nights, power and phones and all those things.

I didn't, and wouldn't, trust all my SENSITIVE, EXPENSIVE equipment on some unknown, random, "built to the lowest possible price, and to hell with the consequences" inverter.

My first inverter (which lasted 16 years, 24/7) was expensive, but back then a *REAL* 5kW 100% dutycycle inverter actually cost money.
My replacement which is a little higher capacity and a LOT more in terms of features, cost in the order of $7K AUD.

If you NEED it, if you RELY on it, if the "opportunity cost" of not having power is significant, or the cost of however many expensive bits of equipment being blown up by something the inverter does, then the answer is simple... DON'T buy purely on price. The cheapest inverters cost WAAAAY too much. At least, in my opinion they do.

I've got instruments that cost upwards of $30K to replace, buggered if I'm going to "plug it in and hope" that my $200 inverter will be ok!

Offline lighthunter

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Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
« Reply #104 on: January 01, 2022, 08:32:50 am »
Yeah Ross but your life is probably boring, the rest of us have drama and disaster sacrifices for entertainment! HA!

I do agree with you, when i started in cnc service 20 years ago, saving money on a cheaper repair decision was valued and valuable. We live in a different world today, downtime is not tolerable in most cases and can easily be more expensive than installing the more expensive choocher.  Everybody has their own unique environment with different influences. It amazes me how many folks on here do so well hooking up this equipment successfully with little experience beforehand. Shucks, a lot of what i know came from making the mistakes and
blowing up some victim when i was teenage years. Luckily, ive learned not to take risks and depend on the Lord to avoid trouble. Maybe the turning point was when i was in high school chemistry, done with my project my buddy moaning about no ideas, i suggested we make some hydrogen. All we need is a diode and an outlet an some water. Things went well until i got impatient waiting for the bubbles, so i found some salt to make the water a bit more conductive. Boy did it ever improve conductivity, immediately boiling yellow gas (deadly chlorine) came billowing out of that beaker so fast. Somehow the color was enough to scare me to oblivion and shut down, nobody got hurt but the night of the exhibit someone asked my buddy if that was really hydrogen in his plastic bag (1 quart) probably not full. So he lights it an the sound was deafening bang! Again nobody got hurt but some valuable lessons.
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH