Author Topic: Electric Fence Zapper  (Read 145985 times)

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Offline rossw

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2013, 04:49:33 am »
I am interested in your circuit but the one shown above is hard to read. I have spent an hour trying to redraw and name it. Could you please take a look at the drawing and note up any details I have missed or got wrong. Thank you.

Hi David!

I'm sure OZ will reply, and I didn't see the original circuit, but immediately the arrangement around the triac and diac looks wrong to me. Also I suspect L1 is actually part of T1. I'm surprised by the arrangement of D2 and D3 - but its not beyond the bounds of possibility. T2 doesn't have the number of turns specified for the primary. What is C5? Drawn as a variable capacitor, but not making a lot of sense to me in the circuit as shown.

Cheers,
RossW

Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 05:38:48 am »
Ross,

The previous page, entry #17 shows the drawing. Its hand sketched and difficult to read, hence my attempt to put some shape into it.

I have numbered all the parts and it would be useful to add all the component values, voltage, uf, capacitance, types etc. Also the coil turns and wire diameter.

I hope Oztules can find a few minutes to spare.

Regards,

Dave

Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2013, 05:05:24 pm »
After a good nights sleep and morning tea and biscuits I have managed to read back through this topic and as a result parts of the drawing have been updated. The triac and diac arrangement have been revised. Previous C5 has become R8. Am still needing component values, type, etc and above all coil wire diameters and any info on coil winding.


Dave in HK

Offline rossw

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2013, 05:17:31 pm »
After a good nights sleep and morning tea and biscuits I have managed to read back through this topic and as a result parts of the drawing have been updated. The triac and diac arrangement have been revised. Previous C5 has become R8. Am still needing component values, type, etc and above all coil wire diameters and any info on coil winding.

Looks a lot better, David.

I found the sketch you mentioned, and there is definately a circle joining L1/T1, so I think it would help comprehension of the diagram if you called it T1 instead of L1, and even better if you could draw it WITH T1. A common way to draw that is to extend the two vertical lines (the core) down, and put the winding directly under your "primary" to the left of the extended core. In reality, "L1" as it is currently drawn is the primary winding. What is on the left side of T1 is the feedback winding and on the right is the output/secondary.

You should join the wiper of R8 to one side or the other. At the moment, R8 is a fixed resistor (or a pot being used as a fixed resistor)

RossW

Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2013, 06:01:57 pm »
Is this what you mean? I still have to update various text for a couple of items.





Dave

Offline rossw

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2013, 06:09:40 pm »
Is this what you mean? I still have to update various text for a couple of items.

Very nearly, yes. The bottom two coils are a seperate transformer, so shouldn't be shown on the same core... so right idea, just carried too far :)

Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2013, 06:37:57 pm »
I think this is very close. Is the toroid coil correct?  I need to know the diameter and wire size.

There are some photographs on another page which show 240AC and +12 DC units.

I can see the ETD 49 coil arrangement, but where is the final transformer coil for the fence connection?

Dave



Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2013, 07:10:29 pm »
Ross,

After reading the thread again I have reached the following conclusion:-

the 50 uf 600  volt AC capacitor is off the board (PCB), as is,

the final power transformer for the fence which is made from a microwave transformer.

If this is correct that answer a few more questions.

Dave

Offline rossw

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2013, 11:43:33 pm »
Ross,

After reading the thread again I have reached the following conclusion:-

the 50 uf 600  volt AC capacitor is off the board (PCB), as is,

the final power transformer for the fence which is made from a microwave transformer.

If this is correct that answer a few more questions.

I picked the low-growing fruit - the stuff I could easily see or deduce from the diagrams and experience.
Exactly what Oz made and how he made it really needs to wait for his input :)

Offline madlabs

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2013, 10:14:57 am »
Been a while, I got sidetracked while installing 1.4kW more panels and getting all the fruit trees planted and the fence finished. Now it's time to get into the fence zapper.

Looks to me from re-reading the thread that the xfrmr on the left is the ferrite core and the output one is the MOT. Going to go dig around and see what I have, most of my stuff is older iron core so I might have to *gasp* buy one.

Jonathan
Some people are like a Slinky - not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.

Offline madlabs

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2013, 11:10:15 am »
Drat, no MOTS that I can find, I must have scrapped 'em when I moved. Can't believe I did but I can't seem to find any.

As to the input xfrmr, think a  CRT flyback core would work? That's all I can find in ferrite except toroids.

Sigh. Rainy day and not enough parts on hand to play. Maybe I'll go take one more dig.

JOnathan
Some people are like a Slinky - not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.

Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2013, 07:08:37 pm »
Friday 5th April 2013

Translating the circuit sketch and slowly working it out is taking quite some time.

Nevertheless, I am getting there.

Some things I need answers for:-

What is the value of the variable resistor R8?

Is the Power transformer (ex microwave off board?

Is the Capacitor C1 50uf 600v AC off board?

I need a complete update on all coil winding turns and the diameter of the wire.

I have the feeling (rightly or wrongly) that the EDT49 coil unit may be too big for the board. Is this a wrong assumption?

The drawing has been updated to show the triacs in parallel, the toroid, and a TIP 31 to replace the 2426 transistor.

So far so good.






Dave in HK

Offline oztules

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2013, 07:24:17 pm »
Sorry folks, been busy making a solar pump controller board... maybe post that soon, and get David to do the circuit for it.... I'm hopeless, mine are disjointed scribbles on bit s of paper, and I end up designing  it on the board... just  a backward hic................what do you expect from a village idiot...

Anyway.
The ferrite is two primary winding . The primary as I wind it is just 2 in hand 24T ( or 18Tt or whatever completes a single layer for the wire I have at hand on the day) turns... so both 24 turns, and use 1 of the 2in hand for each primary... making 2 single primaries of 24T ( or 18 or whatever fits for 1 layer of the core). I use 1mm wire for the primaries.
The secondary of this ferrite tranny is simply about 400-600 turns of fine wire I pinch from the secondary of the original microwave tranny... probably about .5mm wire
NOTE the start and ends of this tranny.

The Big transformer is off board as it weighs about 10 lbs or more.
It is wound from 1.8mm  (#13?) wire for the primary (2 in hand 9 or 10 turns) and about 200 for the secondary 1mm wire will be fine for the secondary.
Don't get too carried away and wind 300 or 400 for extra voltage, the reactance will current limit it probably, so 200-260 turns is sufficient for 10000V and beyond.

Energy storage is 1/2E^2 x C... so voltage is the key to Joules in storage.. more joules, more energy to dump into the output tranny.

The variable resistor... I use 220k... because I had a lot of them left from another project years ago... probably 1M would give you more control if you need it... or just change the resistors in the divider  (1M to something else)

The 50 uf cap is off board in my case, as it is big, and would take up a lot of real estate for no reason.

The torroid can be about 20T of whatever wire you can wind comfortably in small toroids, I find 1.5mmwire is about my winding limit, and commonly use only 1mm wire.. not critical.... It does not need this and the two caps across the primary......., but it helps keep the triacs alive, and the RF down.

Think that covers it.

Well done David, I haven't proof read the circuit, as in a hurry at the moment. will look back later tonight or tomorrow perhaps.

Have fun with it.

............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline David HK

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2013, 01:43:33 am »
Oztules,

Your last e-mail was most useful and I have incorporated your comments about coils and coil wire sizes onto the schematic.

Can you please help with the following:-

Triac’s      what size and amperage? Any suggestion for a common part number. 
               Voltage and amps.

Diac   As above.

Diode D1 100 volt   any preference 1N????

All resistors    any wattage specification?

Resistors    R4, R5 and R6 what size and wattage?

Resistors    R1 and R2 what is the value and wattage, and should there be an R3 and R4? I’m confused on this part.

Toroid      Can you provide some idea of internal and external diameter, and width.

The schematic seems to embrace everything so if you could peruse it from left to right to add any comments that would be very useful.

Readers should note that the circuit schematic has been drawn with Express Schematic software and I have also produced an Express PCB layout on mini board size. The PCB layout has been checked against the Schematic using the software to highlight all connecting parts. They all match – at the moment.

I have a coil ready for re-winding as the main power coil (ex microwave I think). The last awkward job will be to find an ETD49 bobbin assembly for the remaining Coils 1, 2 and 3.

So far so good, and nearly there.

I am always a little confused with Australian English. I am forever mixing up a tranny with a dunny. I suppose when has been zapped by your tranny one would need a dunny anyway!

Dave in HK

Offline rossw

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Re: Electric Fence Zapper
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2013, 04:33:20 am »
I am always a little confused with Australian English. I am forever mixing up a tranny with a dunny. I suppose when has been zapped by your tranny one would need a dunny anyway!

Be very careful!

Context and company dictates much!

"Tranny" can be a transistor, a transformer, or a transvestite.
A dunny however is always a dunny! (toilet, loo, thunderbox, outhouse, john etc)