Author Topic: Truck PV  (Read 7809 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Truck PV
« on: October 22, 2014, 11:20:09 am »
Began the conceptual fine tuning for the panels today... I am working with a guy that will provide the aluminum to mount these with. This is the final layout, coming in at 11 ft 8 inches on the outside, 8 ft 3 in on the inner pair, and just shy of 7 feet wide.

This will leave plenty of room for adding something else later (I don't see more PV in the future but maybe a "water" loop for heat, etc).

Total label is 800W, I won't be using the 30W panel anywhere as it is in rough shape and doesn't readily fit into the layout. The array will be 2s5p, 24V (72 cell) nominal.

3399-0

More as it comes...

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 07:13:48 pm »
Ok ok ok... blame the aluminum guy, not me... mmmkay?

Finally getting somewhere with this... Got the rails in, ground up some angle aluminum, grabbed the trusty foam scraps, and after pondering and rearranging countless pieces of this and that in my head, this is what I've come up with.

4128-0

Right now there's only enough of anything cut to do this with a single panel, but should answer 99% of the questions about how the basic jigsaw concept works. I hope to have the entire thing laid out in a similar fashion in the driveway to fine tune some things by the end of this weekend, but we'll see.

4130-1

Each side of each panel will be symmetrical (at least that's what it's looking like right now). The 100W panels will have 6 brackets each, while the 50W will have 4.

4132-2

At the ends of each panel are 2 locking clips. These will be removable and will be attached to the rails by either 1 or 2 bolts each (not necessary for strength, more for redundancy). Also attached to the rails are the thinner and wider retainer clips, which form a gap between themselves and the rails. The primary bonding method as it stands will be 3M 5200 marine sealant, with some small "setting" hardware to hold things in place until the sealant fully cures.

4134-3

In the gap sits the panel brackets, similar bonding/setting configuration. The fit will be tight, but will have some play in it to allow a small amount of lateral movement for each panel relative to each point on the rails. Filling the remaining void between these will be a thick grease to minimize wear, squeaking, and vibration. Peanut butter maybe?  ;D

4136-4

At the other end of the panel, the end locking clip keeps the panel under the retainer clips, securely holding each one in place.

The beauty of this design is that it's simple, much of the labor can be done on the ground ahead of time, and each panel simply gets laid in place, slid into position, and the lock clips installed.

I'll save the rail-to-roof attachment details for now; however I'll just say that a similar 5200/setting hardware concept applies, tho likely a little more meat in the hardware because of the construction of the existing roof...

I'm open to ideas about improvements, thoughts about gotchas, etc yada...

The one area I'm having a little bit of a time with is the grease aspect of it... I'd like to know what you guys think.

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2015, 10:24:50 pm »
LOL Is the silence a "don't see any issues here" silence or a "Hey y'all get yer helmets on, you're gonna wanna see this" silence...?

 :o ;D

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline rossw

  • Senior Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 879
  • Karma: +35/-0
  • Grumpy-old-Unix-Admin
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 05:58:50 am »
I'm watching with interest!

(I just bought 43 x 180W panels and am now thinking "where the hell am I putting them, and how the hell am I mounting them?")

Offline bj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: +23/-0
  • Lamont, Alberta, Canada
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 06:28:00 am »
  Silence was "don't see any problem here".  Of course you wouldn't know that
'cause of the silence.
  And any suggestions I would have for Ross would be of the location type, not the
how to type.  (like my roof)
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline oztules

  • Forum Advisors
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Karma: +105/-8
  • Village idiot
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 06:45:47 am »
My silence is the same as Rossw... just bought 58x 250w trina honey panels .... and so "where the hell am I putting them, and how the hell am I mounting them?"....mixed with.... too complicated for me for that amount went through my head.

I will be using split corrugated iron to roof mount them.... so my comments are meaningless gibberish comparatively..........

Now you see why I said nothing.............. my ideas are brutally practical, but elegance and following proper mounting considerations re: heat etc are sorely lacking ( deliberately).

.....oztules


Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 12:16:29 pm »
Hehe Ok just checking... Had me nervous there for a sec LOL

Hopefully this works... progress is terribly slow for a few reasons but at least getting some forward movement now.

Far as the practicality, I suppose volume bends and twists that somewhat haha... For as much as you guys are putting up, anything other than peel 'n stick would head toward overwhelming in my mind LOL :P

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 04:00:39 pm »
There uh... was a ummm... slight problem with the original... layout... Someone snuck up in the middle of the night and squeezed the truck walls in, leaving the drawing board a total of 4 inches short left to right.

By some miracle of physics, there was a silver lining that turned to solid gold... The new layout is simpler and only involves one passthru for wiring thru the rails.

Here's a teaser shot... with one of the 50W panels to check for real world leftover errors... So far so good. They're tacked in at the ends so that pilot drilling may commence for the remainder tomorrow.

4314-0

Stay tuned :)

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline DaveW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • No Personal Text Set by User
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 04:06:35 pm »
  Best of luck.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 08:17:22 pm »
Luck, and maybe some magic, or some assistance from the supernatural... Still waiting to see if I am going to be accepted at hogwarts, and my mind control seems to be permanently offline...

So it was back to the solder, silicon, and the beloved white goo...

4316-0

Thanks goes out to DanG for donating the Schottkies... I think even with the broiling summer sun, this is going to be one solid combiner.

The 6th diode is for battery cooling.. I have come to the conclusion that the only way to tame a classic is to not give it control to begin with. But that's another story. The "taps" will connect to two 200W strings, limited by a dedicated buck converter to around 100W total. If it sounds goofy, don't worry, it is. Suffice to say the obvious; the Peltier unit is still highly experimental, and it's a lot easier to draw less than to try and hack up more later.

The 5 red leads are to be joined by divvying up a zillion strand #4 cable headed to the classic. More on that when it happens.

Till then...

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 06:35:24 pm »
4350-0

Rails are up!

Roof is much firmer now, it can actually support my weight between rails/ribs, however I'm not pushing my luck. :o

Everything came in within tolerance... onward

Till then...

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 10:21:05 pm »
Making progress...

4490-0

Panels have been properly terminated with MC4 connectors and have their clips attached. There's a little concern over the seemingly excessive curing time of the 5200... after 72 hours and some change, the ooze from the earliest attempts at getting the buffer material gooped and clamped still has not only tack but fouls the razor when trying to trim it. Temps have been decent to uncomfortably warm at times, with some extra sun time given when the situation was noticeable early on. Time will tell.

That's all I have for now in terms of pics... I'm trying to beat some weather that's headed this way. Most of the wiring up top is set up, just needs some detail work and the penetration as well as the grounds combined... The universe seems to have other plans, however; Every time I think about going up there to solder the grounds, the wind picks up...

On the other hand, this is EXCELLENT sleeping weather... Sounds really good right about now ;D

Till next time...

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 10:56:36 pm »
The time has come... well almost...

There are a couple of connections left to complete the path from our handy dandy nuclear furnace and my battery bank... Physically however, it's pretty much done.

4505-0

I present to you 800W of Uhaulized power.

The design zigged and zagged a couple times here and there, but fortunately there were no expensive mistakes (if you exclude what happened with the classic... that's another thing entirely).

A little elaboration on the bust that was the original 3 tier layout: Nutshell version of that is that it was too wide to fit properly on top of the truck (I believe that part I already mentioned). How the hell I ever got to the point of ordering the rails with that slipping thru the cracks is beyond me... but I was at least very insistent on not making the first cut in them until I was absolutely sure of the final design. Damn good thing, because that would have been one hell of a hit. At over $100 a pop, 22 ft sticks of this stuff isn't just growing out of the ground, and I would have made all 3 of them useless to the project. Whew!  :o ::)

So some more brainfarting err um I mean storming... My step-dad saw it in the numbers and called it (those that know me know that me and numbers just... suck)... and the two tier layout was born.

We figured out how to get length and width within useful limits... but then came the Z axis, and the design took another turn. This one wasn't so bad, but was (is?) frustrating because it raised the profile of the roof line by inverting the brackets on the panels. This proved necessary because when sliding the pieces around on the ground, it became apparent that there was going to be a clearance issue of some sort... Which tinkering around on the roof then confirmed. So the whole thing lost it's nice smooth recessed finish and stealthy appeal. Could have been worse... It didn't mean re-doing any parts, and the layout didn't need to change (couldn't, actually), so it worked out. The entire project so far has been a series of these "oooh, so close" scenarios; I almost don't even feel the stings anymore  ;D

4507-1

Another notable component of the experience of putting these things up there was the need for constantly moving... everything. It reminded me of those little puzzles where there's a "big picture" and all the pieces slide, but there's only one free space to move them. Granted, it wasn't quite that bad, but it just wasn't practical to keep raising and lowering panels up and down every time it was time to go on to the next part. I kept one full "side" up there the entire time, with the tools taking up one "square" and me taking up another...

4509-2

It got particularly interesting toward the front where I was dealing with smaller spaces, and an increasing number of clips on the rails that had to be avoided to keep from damaging anything you can think of...

4511-3

All of that said, I can't really complain about the way it worked out. There is one spot in the front where the two sets of 50W panels share very close quarters on the center rail, and I almost had to trim one of the clips to get clearance. I probably should anyway, the clip in question has a distortion in it from my ignorance of methodology for cutting aluminum... I trimmed the buffering material instead (a rubbery form of PVC), and they just make it into place.

For the penetration, things got strange and creative... there's debate as to the suitability of some of the materials, but I think construction method made up for it. The seals rely on sandwiching 3M 5200 between any two given materials, with plenty of margin to help prevent leaks. There were all kinds of ideas tossed around for going thru the roof, what you see below is the call that made it into the wild.

4513-4

The ground is brass all-thread that was taken from one of the pass-thru's used in the van's battery connections. It is in direct contact on both sides with the aluminum, with copper anti-seize between. The lugs are "crimped" and soldered... Hi Rover!  ;D

4515-5

On the inside, it looks like this...

4517-6

Somewhere I mentioned "best effort"... I know this isn't the ideal way, but was what ended up being, all things having been considered. The design overall was a bit laborious to create and implement, but it serves it's purpose... The goal was to allow them to float around a bit while still being restrained and secure. Overall, I'm happy with the final result - simplicity and elegance (even if the brackets had to be inverted).

A couple other pics of the assembled array...

4519-7

4521-8

It's a difficult thing to capture in a single frame...  :o

Up next is some weather... the usual 3 day waiting game... so I've set up to finish the connections and such while the sun is playing hide and seek with this noreaster that's looming on us.

Also on the table is re-figuring the air dam for the front, and likely some covers for the 2 gaps in the middle... This thing needs all the help it can get to make it past gas stations...

Until then...

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.

Offline dang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
  • Karma: +5/-3
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2015, 12:11:29 am »
Time will tell though that looks like some serious & well thought out deep blue power!

Air dam? It's needing a cow catcher to deflect low flying gnus, wildebeests and those pesky tree branches lurking in the foreseeable future.

They make a 4-inch & 6-inch Solid (non-perforated) Schedule 20 Pipe for leech fields and other non-pressurized drains, it's lightweight and might make a nice camouflage cowl down the sides of the racks if split into 90º or 120º or 180º sticks; And the same idea on the front except with some serious side & middle guard rail pieces as back up the aero shell & act as limb cutter or deflector if something seriously gets snagged...

Question -=- next time would you go with one or two 300w or 400w+ mega-panels instead of the puzzle of three rails and ten panels?



"It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others" - Anonymous

Offline MadScientist267

  • Impossible Condition Curator
  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1514
  • Karma: +44/-4
  • Rules? What rules?
Re: Truck PV
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2015, 01:09:11 am »
I'm definitely hoping it's a producer. It's overkill in theory, if I did my math right... Oh crap, I'm doomed... There's that word again...  :o

Interesting thoughts on protection... It's all too easy to remember just how mobile a mobile environment is at times... And as Ron White once said... "It ain't THAT the wind is blowin', it's WHAT the wind is blowin" - Truth... and no reason it wouldn't work in reverse just as easily. I will definitely need to look into the reinforced front edge, and the cutting thing is certainly a good call... Ain't like I haven't heard tree branches scrape it either - as little as I've put on it already LOL

On the panel sizes, more than likely, yes. These were made available to me for excellent bang for buck ratio, hopefully I've mentioned their sources for gratitude purposes... But just in case, much thanks goes out to Rover for allowing me to give his retired panels a new home, but also to my parents for the Christmas gift of the first 200W for the van.

That said, I did find that the smaller size 100W were easiest to manipulate in general, from drilling holes for the brackets, to installing them on them, to getting them up on top and in to place. The 50W feel "fragile" and tend to wander around while being worked with, from the pressure of a drill bit or a small gust of wind. The larger 100W are a bit clumsy in general, and require extra elbow grease and finesse all at the same time.

I haven't worked with the much larger panels, but I'd suspect it only gets trickier from there in terms of keeping them where one wants them... at the same time, yes, from a design of the mounting and wiring systems standpoint, certainly much simpler. It was rough moving about thru the minefield of sharp aluminum angle, worrying about what to worry about more - injuring myself (from cuts, which I have, or dare I say it, worse), or permanently deforming them in the process. At the other end of the spectrum, add just one more watt to those bigger 100's and I really would rather not attempt doing much with them alone.

Steve
Wanted: Schrödinger's cat, dead and alive.