Author Topic: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!  (Read 14485 times)

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Offline oztules

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2018, 01:47:47 am »
Tried them as a welder... gee they are very good. the recommendations are right. In the 200 amps setting,  it burnt straight through the 1/8 inch plate I was playing with... so as a welder. yes definitely... as a charger on a cap run genny... no ... on mains, certainly works, but not linear like the other ones.



..........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2018, 03:46:13 am »
Please keep up the research OZ... i have one that is only current controlled and is brilliant when we've had a few rain days... if you can see the driver chip we may be able to help ..

Offline oztules

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2018, 12:51:25 am »
Yeah, as a welder on the ozinverter, they work very well, as a charger, they are probably too sophisticated.
I think they are waiting for the arc srike,at full voltage, at? current, then probably  work out what you should be getting according to the draw...

I say that because it is the easiest stick welder I have ever used. It made me look very good.... and usually I am woeful, thats why I use a big MIG..... but there was no sign of sticking to the work, even at lower ranges.... I'm impressed, and I hate stick welders, but this one is very useable.

So if I'm hopeless with a stick welder, and suddenly I am doing excellent welds, good penetration, and the flux just falls off......... then there is something else at work here.... I cant get that good that fast..... what happened to the sparrow shi* welds I normally do?

So they are taking a lot of control out of the hands of the welder, and into some cunning algorithms....

At the moment, I have cried uncle, and just made a box with a rectifier in it, and hooked that to the genny and to the GTI... works flawlessly. Should have done that first. :(



..........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline Pete

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2018, 03:11:15 pm »
Hi Oz, are  you running the GTI's backwards, I did not know that you could put 240 volts in and use them as a battery charger.
Have you given up on the old trick of just using a car alternator as a battery charger?. Maybe they aren't gutsy enough for a 48 volt system.
Seems that the KISS principle has proven itself to be the best way to go.
Pete

Offline oztules

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2018, 08:15:27 pm »
Yes, the gennie puts out 240vac, rectified to 340vdc.... into the solar +- and the ac side connected to the ozinverter output (240vac)... so the GTI acts as a GTI on a local grid ( ozinverter) with DC coming from the gennie.

This allows us to transmit power up to the house from a long way away at the wool sheds.

We have two car 12v alternators up at the house for driving the battery bank directly. Both are just 12v alts with home brew regulators. They output about 25 amps @ 55v or so..... with both running..... then  50 amps etc. You can squeeze 30 amps out of them if you push the gennie motors very hard.... but they are only 5hp motors ( 2 off)

Add in the wool shed GTI, and we get 75 amps.

The wool shed is good as it is so far away, you can start it up at night in winter, run the Air Conditioner/heater, and let it run out of fuel at about midnight.... then the GTI drops off as if the sun went down..... and very quiet.


.......oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline ClockmanFrance

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2018, 12:57:10 am »
Hi,

I noticed that a few folk are following this topic.

I am Still editing the 2nd edition of the OzInverter book.

For those that are thinking about the toroid build, here is a couple of pages with the formulas and calculations. And some examples.

I trust this helps.



Offline oztules

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2018, 06:09:07 pm »
Nice few pages, but that oztules bloke got it a bit wrong,..... he was obviously saying 240vac, and thinking 230v or thereabouts which he uses.......or just not thinking at all......... which I know is what he normally does.

The real 240x1.414 comes out to about 340v peak... what was he thinking >:(

So you need to change the 320 to 340..... oops.


..........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline ClockmanFrance

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2018, 02:27:50 am »
Thanks Oztules, for the observation.

Here is the updated version of the TOROID explanation.

* OzInverterNo2BookToroidC.pdf (535.91 kB - downloaded 249 times.)

I will check with you before going to print so that any other modifications/idiosyncrasy's  can be amended.

Thanks again.

Offline influence

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2018, 04:08:32 am »
Hey I got some interesting news....a neighbour bought a welder from ALDI...a "Workzone 140A" unit...so i said to him let me measure the Uoc...
Came in at 63Vdc. The box said 72Vdc....

Offline influence

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2018, 04:11:56 am »
Btw interesting observations about the PJ inverter I built...
Transformer stays fairly cool BUT....why does one of the heatsinks get hot (one side that goes to the transformer primary) and the other 2 stay cold ( the + side [long one] and the other side that goes to the transformer)?

Offline influence

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2018, 04:18:43 am »
Also I had a play with the new 2018 Powejack 15kW unit....they use a large toroidal and TWO mos boards....and the modular control board.... pics if youre interested.
I ran a test on a mate's place....turned everything on...it held up....

Offline oztules

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2018, 08:08:33 am »
One will be switching fairly slowly, so only a hundred or so transitions per second.

This means the transition time versus time on is big... ie the transition time is small compared to the saturated states... so most of the time they are on or off, and not very often going in between states ( where the switching losses are highest, and so least efficient... more heat....) this is then  the 50 or 60 hz switches.

The other side of the switching is the spwm signals, and they transition 20 thousand times per second or more.

As you can imagine, they spend a lot more time coming and going between on and off, than the slower 50hz switching fets.. These fets need to turn on and off 20 thousand times while the slower switches only do a hundred or so.

From memory, the high side switches are provided for by a galvanically isolated pwn supply, so high side losses are kept to a minimum, ie the high side should be as efficient as the low side with it's switching. They use pretty hefty isolated drivers for this that should have very good wave forms.

In the ozinverter, we use current pumps, and this lowers the efficiency slightly for the high sides, but it is not that significant, as the losses caused by the opto in the pj's probably is equivalent anyway. The high side spwm on that PJ has twice the coolig as the low side spwm, and that will help it seem better.

I don't know how they do it now, but either explanation will cover it I expect.

The inverter welder will power a 24v battery bank as it stands... probably only less than 6-10a on 48v pack.

6-7kw is nothing to be sneezed at, the PJ can deliver a pretty handsome house inverter from the looks of it. We are getting pretty blase now with these big transformer inverters now.... no one blinks at all if you get into the 6-10kw range for short periods now... who knew....


Interested in your findings on the newer style.

.......oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2018, 06:48:25 pm »
Hey OZ, we should start a new thread on these inverter welders...

I dont have any photos but i added an extra turn to the " transformer " and found a potentiometer ( 3 actually ) that read " max " and wound it up.. delivers close to 4 kw now consistently and still strong. Gets hotter than originally,  but i did run it for nearly 20 mins and didnt seam to mind...  has a .4amp 24v fan that runs constantly so that greatly helps..

Offline oztules

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2018, 07:07:11 pm »
Probably could.

From the looks of it, it is difficult to know how much smarts each brand has. The less the better for us.

Those new ones I got hold of are brilliant as welders, but a bit unreliable as chargers, as they think too much about whats going on... trying to improve the welding experience.... which does not help charging....

The slightly older chunkier ones I had, worked perfectly linearly once the extra turn was applied.... so horses for courses I guess.



...........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: My 12kW powerjack build - Ozinverter Inspiration!
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2018, 04:14:26 am »
So... 8 solid hours charging at 3.9kw and never missed a beat... solid as... batteries needed a good balance charge as we have had on/off rain..