Off Grid Living / Camping > Utilities

Solar Water Transfer Pump

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OTG:
I need to transfer bore water (from a tank) over some distance (up-to 600m) and height (30 to 60m Total Dynamic Head), depending which other tank/watering points I send the water to.

The pumping rate/flow isn't of great concern, but I do want as reliable a pump as possible and it needs to be DC/Solar. I've found the below two examples which seem to meet my needs.

Sorry, my links got a "CleanTalk ***Forbidden. Contains Contacts" error when posting - search for either of these numbers on aliexpress.com instead:

32802958030
32793093231

Just wondering what others think:

* Which is likely to be more reliable in the long run - a Jet Pump or a Multistage pump (I'm no expert on the merits of the different type of pumps - I don't think a straight-up single impeller Centrifugal will handle this head, or at least I've not found one that can)?
* Anybody out there with experiences or advice they can share reagarding DC/Solar transfer pumps?
* Any personal recommendations for one pump or another (on my list or otherwise)?
Thanks Y'all!

rossw:
OK, from my experience....

DON'T even consider any pump that uses a brushed DC motor. Even very expensive, name-brand ones like shurflo.

I WOULD NOT ever consider a positive-displacement pump again. They have all sorts of on-paper benefits, but reliability and maintenance are not there in the long term.

I ended up ditching the DC pump and using an inverter + AC induction motor multistage bore pump. Not only was it cheaper, but it was better made, has basically no wearing parts (brushes etc), moves more water, operates at a higher efficiency and has given faultless operation in identical conditions, so far for 4 times longer than the DC pump, but who knows how much longer.

oztules:
Well that just goes to show how we all get different results.

On this island we use extensively the brushless DC solar bore pumps.... and thats what I would recommend here.

Your 60meter head means roughly 90 psi of pressure. A centrifugal pump will be a very inefficient performer in this instance unless it has a lot of stages... maybe 10 or more for a bore pump diameter. ( 100mm)

For the JCM-5.0-80, it would do the job, but it is a 1hp multi stage pump, so it should too... but with little room to spare.

The jets series JETS -4.2-60  won't do any good, as your max pressure is equal to their max pressure... so no flow worth speaking of.

A progressive displacement cavity pump ( screw pump) is what we would use here ( and do for 120psi dam filling applications), as the centrifugal ones are too "loose" unless your in the 10 stage style... then they are pretty tight, and will pump in poorish light as well.

I would resist the inverter idea, unless your going to pump it all at once, fast and short, then spend the rest of the day recovering... depends on the duty cycle

In closing, we do this thing over here. Progressive cavity is the best for solar and high pressure.
Brushless only.... not AC but DC ( BLDC to be exact)... they both run inverters I know, but the DC three phase type is more versatile with differing cloud formations, and low down torque with poor light.... and NO batteries.

We use one of the pumps out in the ocean for seawater pickup for the reverse osmosis unit out on one of the outer islands, and they work ok there too.... sand and sediment aside.... but they handle that too.

 For medium pressure and high flow rate, the multi fan centrifugal ones are fine. For high pressure ( over 100psi ) the bore pump style seems the best fit... just throw it into the tank and your good to go.

All the little DC brush pumps of either the diaphragm or impeller type are best left on the shelf as Ross has forcast.

Thats my take on it anyway.


.........oztules

rossw:

--- Quote from: oztules on August 19, 2018, 02:40:57 am --- the brushless DC solar bore pumps

--- End quote ---

Brushless (ie, ECM) motors would be fine - but when I was last in the market, they were not available, or not at any sane price, from anyone I could get to talk to about them. Nowdays they'd probably be a good deal.

(In my specific instance, there's no power near the pump, I have to run it some 400 metres from the house. A 750 watt pump on DC would require either disturbing voltage, or much heavier wire).


--- Quote ---Your 60meter head means roughly 90 psi of pressure. A centrifugal pump will be a very inefficient performer in this instance unless it has a lot of stages... maybe 10 or more for a bore pump diameter. ( 100mm)

--- End quote ---

I think mine is 4 or 6 stage, in a pump designed to fit down a 4" casing.

I have 60m vertical, and 400m of 40mm poly pipe, plus a non-return valve at the bottom that's worth a few more PSI.
Here's the water coming into the top tank - this is a 1.5" fitting the water is coming out of.



--- Quote ---A progressive displacement cavity pump ( screw pump) is what we would use here

--- End quote ---
The diaphram and reed valves type positive displacement pumps are nothing but trouble, IMHO. Screws probably far better, but again - depends on what's available at the time!


--- Quote ---I would resist the inverter idea, unless your going to pump it all at once, fast and short, then spend the rest of the day recovering... depends on the duty cycle

--- End quote ---

That's exactly what I do. I was sick and tired of running a low capacity pump that trickled water in like a leaky dunny and had to run 24/7 for weeks at a time to do anything. Now I run the new pump each afternoon for a week, fill up the top tank, then don't touch it for months :)


--- Quote ---DC ( BLDC to be exact)... they both run inverters I know, but the DC three phase type is more versatile with differing cloud formations, and low down torque with poor light.... and NO batteries.

--- End quote ---

Absolutely, and that I'd agree with. I didn't catch the reference to brushless in earlier posts, which is why I piped up.



--- Quote ---For medium pressure and high flow rate, the multi fan centrifugal ones are fine. For high pressure ( over 100psi ) the bore pump style seems the best fit... just throw it into the tank and your good to go.

--- End quote ---

Only warning with this (and it was my local pump expert friend who put me onto this one) - bore pumps expect (nay, require) water flow over them to keep them cool. Doing what I had intended to, and dropping a bore pump into a large tank and expecting it to work is an early death sentence for them. He STRONGLY advised me to make a cowel for the pump to give it the environment it expects. A lump of 4" pipe around it, capped off at the top, down the pump almost to the bottom of the motor.


--- Quote ---All the little DC brush pumps of either the diaphragm or impeller type are best left on the shelf as Ross has forcast.
Thats my take on it anyway.

--- End quote ---

Reckon I'm with you on this one mate!

OTG:
Jeez Ross, what did a positive displacement pump ever do to you!?  ;)

Seriously though, I can imagine Reciprocating type pumps would be a pain to maintain and probably not last that long. I'm not familiar with all Rotary type pumps, but if anything, I'm amazed by the simplicity of a screw pumps worm impeller and the ease with which they can be replaced (cheaply too). Most screw bore pumps even come with a spare impeller - not sure what this says about longevity though? Whats your experience been OZ? My bore pump is a 36V 1.8-90 screw pump (similar to item 32417332198 on AliExpress.com), it's coming up to a year and still going strong...

As covered in another topic - http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php?topic=1244.msg14456#msg14456, I was going A/C, but due to sudden/unforseen circumstances, I have switched and committed (rather happily I might add) to a DC path. Though, a 400m run of 3 core is impressive ross, you must have a good trench shovel/back!   ;D

To be honest, I'd never thought of just chucking another bore pump in the tank - I could even use the same panels, controller, etc as my existing bore (just switch the pumps using a 4 pole DC isolator - and keep one controller as a backup)! Say I did just get another 1.8-90 pump, yes it could handle the head, but what about the distances? What size pipe would you use (I'm using 11/4" for the bore - was figuring the same for the transfer pump)? And would T'eed off lines to various tanks affect it at all (my intent would be to have all branches closed, with only the line/tank that needs filling open)?

Finally, you're right about keeping them cool Ross - Pictured is my DIY shroud for my bore (mostly to keep pebbles out - they bloody killed my last pump), but I would definately make another if using a bore pump in the tank.


PS: And yes, we're all agreed that brush pumps are best avoided!

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