Anotherpower.com Forum
Renewable Energy Questions/Discussion => Wind and Hydro => Topic started by: wilfor03 on April 09, 2013, 08:08:12 am
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Been off the net for awhile due to the family moving closer to the kids. Got a lot more wind up here on Brindley Mountain. Blows on the average 10-15 mph daily. Gonna take a bit of time to get my RE projects back up and running. New batterys coming for the new workshop (24x40 metal Garage).
Back to the issues I've been thinking about. This time, I want to use a hydralic lift for the wind tower instead of the boat winch. Don't want any guide wire cables on my free standing tower of 25 foot. My new neighbor gave me a Simplex porto-power hand pump and a double action cylinder (off a hay bailer). Is there any way to safely use that double action cylinder with the single output of the Porto Power? Could the porto power be converted to a double output (two hoses)?
I don't know anything about hydralics and scanning the internet doesn't help to much with direct questions. Sure am learning a whole bunch about hydralics, though.
Anyways, its good to be back again with the knowledgeable people of this world..........
Thanks all, for any help you can throw my way......I'll keep ya all informed if I find out anything......
Bill
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Nice to hear from you again
Sorry but I can't help with hydraulics questions
But I noticed that you are only about 30 miles away
I've been through Union Grove hundreds of times and have installed sound systems in churches there
Nice little community . . .
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Yeah, Bill, Good to see you again. Kind of wondered if all was well with you.
Sorry, all I know about hydraulics is I push the lever one way to split a log and the other to retract the wedge to do another. I suspect it is just a valve that handles the in / out action but don't know for certain!
Good luck with it.
Tom
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some of this may help . . .
https://www.google.com/search?q=+%09+Hydralic+Tilt+tower&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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Love to help, but to get a lot more info here to get started.
Can we get a little more info about the tower?
We need things like the gauge of metal, the build type of type, base width, and top width, etc.
Other things that will help are, the concrete ( other otherwise) size and such of the base your planning to use.
The length and bore of cylinder, type of pipe fitting on each of the hydraulic units.
Pics are ALWAYS a good thing.
Glad your move went ok.
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The double acting cylinder is the same as the single essentially. Just drive the pressure into the side you want, and have an air filter on the input to the (top?) input.
You will be relying on gravity or spring s to drive the cylinder to the opposite end that the thing goes to under pressure....
ie if you use the porta power pressure into the "bottom" of the cylinder to drive it up, then you will need a weigh/springt on the top to drive it back in after you release the pressure, and let the oil drain back to the tank.
......................oztules
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I offer another method but basically the same idea as Oz here.
Ill depending on if its an open system or a closed. In an open system I would put the unused side into the return line low to unpressured final return of the system. Similarly in a closed system I try to find a port into the oil reservoir, or T off from any that exist. It works well as long as it is not a pressurized reservoir, or the reservoir is used in a way that would interfere with the normal operation of the cylinderI, or system as a whole.
This way there are less chances of introducing contaminates, it keeps the cylinder bore lubricated, and in the event of a leak past the piston seals, it will leak only into the oils system.
This also helps offset any additional oil reserve effects needed for the cylinder as it displaces a large amount of the oil it needs from the top ( shaft output side) into the reservoir as it moves.
But maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit?
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Hey All, thanks for the welcome back.......
Appreciate all the input to the question. Yesterday, the fella that gave me the Porta power and lift cylinder, said he needs me to come down and he's got a vent for the upper cylinder, that will make the double action cylinder act like a single action. Super cool, huh? Mr. Oztules, thank you for the right on answer. And, thanks to all (Wooferhound, TomW, Wolvenar) for your inputs, too!
I'm gonna rebuild the pump and the cylinder before I build the mount for the tower. But I'll keep you all posted as I go (good or bad). Like I said, I've never played with hydralics before so this is a learning process.
Take care all and thanks for the warm welcome back.....
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I think I remember what's going on top of your tower. I'm glad to hear of your progress and wish you all the best in your brainstorming to make it happen. It will be great to share your joy of raising a turbine and producing power.
Mike
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Hey Mike....
Yup, gonna fly the 600 watt servo once again. This time I have a whole bunch of wind to play with. Just want to play with a hydralic system instead of the boat winch setup I had before.
This hydralic stuff is pretty interesting. Lots to learn, but I think I can get it fixed up for my 25' tower. I'll keep everyone posted as I go along and try and take pictures.
What's been going on up your way. Haven't heard much from ya in awhile? This is all your fault, Mike, getting my interest in the servo's and all (LOL). I again thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us all.
I'll post more later.....gotta go get some seals and gaskets for the porta power........
Bill
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Still waiting till Friday for the re-pack kit to come in. Here's a picture of the pump and cylinder I'm planning on using. It'll look a lot better when I get em all beautified with some new paint.
Then I can start playing with tower base/piping and sizing and stuff. I'll keep posting pictures and try and narrate what's going on (or not!!).
Bill
ps...Mr. Moderator, is it okay to continue this with the build or do I need to start another thread?
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Wilfor03
Can you post a ruff drawing of tower to show how hyd ram will lift tower up right
Peter
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ps...Mr. Moderator, is it okay to continue this with the build or do I need to start another thread?
Bill;
Whatever floats your boat. I would just keep it in one thread since it appears to be one project.
Nice project.
Tom
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Thanks Tom...I'll keep everything here......gotta go to the garage and find my printer/scanner and scan my drawing so I can post it for everyone.
Thanks, Dude....
Bill
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Here you go, Scrapman (and everyone). The rough drawing of what I sorta have in my mind for the hydralics on the tower. I don't know what I'm doing with all this stuff yet, but I'm one step closer to doing "it".
I'm just gonna tack weld some pipe to see where all the leverage points need to be before I start getting serious.
I'll keep pluggin away and keep you all laughing.
Bill
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wilfor03
The plan looks good but you need to do some calculations for the ram and strengthen mast on other side of ram mounting point plus hyd ram mounting point to mast should be over a lot larger area.
Ram in photo looks like its from a agricultural machine and if is would be low pressure type and guessing size at about 2ins diameter piston diameter at 1 and 1/2 ins and 2240 lbs per ton will only lift 1and 3/4 tons @ 2240 lbs per sq ins I would not use over that pressure and power pack would probably good for 5000 psi + so consider a pressure relief valve in hose.
To see if ram will do job add weight of wind generator +tower from top to hyd point and multiply by number of feet from hyd mount to top to give weight plus 100 percent safety margin ram has to lift.
Having built attachments for excavators i owned over 8 years was a steep learning curve when siting in cab with windows open and rust proofed in side cab + me when ram failed.
Peter
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I recently had the steering force amplifier on a tractor fail. Seal blew , and hot high pressure oil aimed right at my .. worst parts it could.
Not fun. no real damage, thankfully it was not full temp yet but hot enough to hurt like heck.
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I recently had the steering force amplifier on a tractor fail. Seal blew , and hot high pressure oil aimed right at my .. worst parts it could.
Take very real care around high pressure hydraulics. The temperature isn't the worst of it.
What high pressure oil does (http://www.hydraulicsupermarket.com/injury.html) (Caution: graphic images)
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I've got a good idea of the weight of the servo motor, prop, tail, and tower pipe. Gonna be right around 190 lbs, so the hay bailer hydralic cylinder is more than able to carry that weight. My plan is to put a guage on a "T" fitting to monitor the pressure (safety issue).
But, I put new seals and "o" rings in the porto-power and that sucker leaks from the pump cylinder bad after raising the handle to pump up the pressure (raising the cylinder). I must have screwed up putting in the over-haul kit. That fluid is super messy!!
Gonna take it apart again and look for something I messed up and try it over. If it still leaks, it's scrap metal then and I'll try something different.
I'll keep you all posted as what's happening. Still trying to get a pad down for my new double-wide coming in, but the weather isn't helping up here on the mountain (right Wooferhound?), so just keeping the fingers crossed........
later everybody....
Bill