Anotherpower.com Forum
Renewable Energy Questions/Discussion => Wind and Hydro => Topic started by: willie on March 19, 2012, 05:08:02 pm
-
HI All, My first post of many I hope. What we have so far is 400 ft.of 4" pipe out of a 4 ft.deep x10w.x20L silt pond,55psi.static 70 gpm.One chart says 640watts @.50%eff.-461watts per mo.does this sound about right ??we use about avg.350kwh per mo. what I would like to do for now (sschecks don't go as far today),I have 6--yes 6 xpower 1500powerpacks,51 ah each 3000watt surge ,1350w continuous xantrex inverter,can I wire the battires up to one turbine,(one small bat. bank) then runour bigpower things one each to its own inverter?? nuts I know but "for now--the ss thing" thanks willie
-
First of all, Hello Willie, and welcome. Second, I don't know a darn thing about hydro. Sorry, just wanted to say Welcome.
-
Hi Willie,
This is 12V, correct?
I love hydro.
The 24/7 aspect is great.
However, I do not have a place to play with hydro.
6 x 51AH batteries is 306AH.
That's not much.
1300W continuous is too much to expect from a 51AH battery.
1300W continuous is too much to expect from a 6 X 51AH battery bank.
Inverters can NOT be paralleled.
(inverters like that can not be paralleled)
If you do have 640W of charging power 24/7/365, then you need a larger battery bank, and a serious inverter.
If you do have 640W of charging power 24/7/365, then you have passed from ebay play toys into real power potential.
G-
-
350kW/month = ca. 11kW/day...
650W hydro power 24/7/365 = 15kW/day...
You'll need some sort of dump load or controller for that.
I'd say you'll be fine, but you will probably prefer a larger bank for periods with less water?!...
-
Goodday ghurd, Yes it's 12 volt. I didn't --don't post very well :( I would like to parallel the battiers from the hydro,then run one wiring circuit from the fridge to one inverter. then one circuit for the tv to the second inverter--only one stand alone circuit for each appliance or string of lights. Everything in our house is within each inverters range for power output. With the hydro's power input 24/7 the battiers ah are only there for short time use--1000 watts for microwave for two or three min. Is my head on OK or am I missing something here?? Thanks Bill
-
Hi Willie,
I think what Ghurd meant is you normally can't parralel the AC output from inverters. You can have more than one inverter running of the source DC voltage (as long as you have enough capacity for everything plugged in), and the output goes do separate devices with no interconnects to outputs from another inverter.
Rover
-
Welcome Willie
Sounds reasonable on the surface, but a few points.
How long will your water source last @ 70 GPM?
You say static head of 55 PSI 70 GPM, do you mean 55 PSI when there is no flow (static head) or do you have 55 PSI when 70 GPM is flowing, there is a big difference.
Is there a possibility of your system freezing?
I don't see that your stand alone inverter has any place in your proposed system, it's too small to utilize that inverter, keep it for Ron.
I agree you will need an adequate dump load, in case usage is less than input, but I do wonder what you mean by "big power things", each Power Pack has a capacity of 1350 watts continuous, so load planning will be an important issue for a 51 amp hour battery even with continuous power input.
I find the chart here useful in hydro applications,
http://www.nooutage.com/powerspout.htm (ftp://www.nooutage.com/powerspout.htm)
It is smart to ask so keep us informed as your system develops, I have a good stream but it is also a bit like a woman, it has two extremes and no happy medium.
-
HI Cornelius, From Norway, Yes I have a moringstar ts-60 w/meter on the way for dump work. With $900 us for pipe,$100 sand & cemento & rebar for the silt pond, the very small bat. bank & small inverters will have to do for now. Down the road I see some t-105's (over $250us here) and a 3000w sine wave,oyes it's going to be a short-very short road, but it's that ss thing :'( Thanks for the comeback, Willie
-
Hi A of J, my stream is just like yours --just smaller, the 70 gpm was taken during our "dry time", that stream runs all year,( so do the other two but they are to for away-but still on my land). The 55 psi is static off a 4 in line,one of the charts i used said 11psi loss-but with a 2.5" line,I found no way to input 4" line!! We live in Costa Rica,for the last 6 years one time for about 2 hr. it got down to 54*f our avg.day time is 76f night 60-62f.WE used to live in montana we know all about cold :o,not here 8) Thanks Willie
-
Willie now I am jealous, try this on line calculator for pressure drop, roughness factor depends on type of pipe http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/index.html (http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/index.html) but I recon very little pressure drop at your flow rate using PVC pipe.
I guess you will have available around 350-400 watts, many factors come into play when designing a renewable energy system in order to not spend the money again. Size battery bank is the big ticket item and hydro is the most favorable source of power allowing a smaller battery bank.
What type of turbine are you planning on?
What loads are you planning to run from this system?
All the above gestimations were done by me going outside, holding up a wetted finger up in the air, consulting a compass, applying a secret formula and multiplying by a fiddle factor of 0.087654321
I nearly forgot, the sweet spot in hydro systems is an operating pressure around 2/3 of static, if my memory serves me well (unlikely), so for you that is around 36 PSI disregarding pipe pressure drop. Adjust your flow to achieve a pressure of 36PSI and measure the flow rate, that will give you your working volume.
Allan
-
After the wetted finger thingee you don't turn right two times then once left--not doing so throes off all the numbers!!!A 6.5" pelton--TV 300w,fridge 1000w,microwave1000w.4- 23w compact flu.(not all on at once),1.5amp. lap top charger,washer? radio for the three days the maid is here. Willie
-
1000W fridge wow! is that a typo?
-
I'd like to clear up what ghurd said about parallel inverters.
SOME specially made inverters that can synce can parallel.
Some only do it to create the opposing 110 60hz to create the 220v as America uses.
Either which way it takes a special synchronizing feature to do so.
Our Xantrax can tie together with a synce wire
-
Aof J, see I told you about the turing thing---lets see if i get this right watts=voltsxamps ??? tag inside door says 8.5 amps x 115 volts =977.5 give or take. No water pump (down hill systom),no ac, no heater Don't need two out of the three. You must be from down under or someplace that does the Queens birthday--the bar/mbar thing made me google it up Willie
-
Willie,
Nothing wrong with your maths, if I had a fridge that took that much power I would take the door off lay it down and use it for a herb garden. My fridge lists 0.8A @ 230V (184W) with 355W on defrost, rated as 484 Kwh/year, it would use more than that up here but still reasonable.
Yes I am from paradise in the land down under , (No Vacancy's), the drop down menu's on that calculator should have allowed you to input the figures you have, what Pd did you get?
Do you already have that 6 1/2" Pelton?
What generator do you plan using?
What is your pipe made of PVC?
Allan
-
A of J ,The other half picked it out when I was gone at work--if I tryed to get rid of it she would run me over with her wheel chair .The pelton was ordered last week from italy. The generator is a delco 160 amp new take off from a 18 wheeler low cut in, low speed 1600 rpm max. Pipe is all pvc 4"--PD is .53psi or 76.08 lbw./ sq.ft. More ???? on the alternator after supper.I know people are thinking why 6 power packs, I got them from the US Embassy for $50.00us each as take outs--They were new. Willie
-
OK people smarter than me, I have a 160amp delco alt.low cut in low speed(1600rpm max). I keep reading take out the recitifier and run wild ac on smaller wire up to your bat. bank (for me 200 ft.) then bank into the recitifier. Ok what do you do with the voltage reg.??? what about watts-volts-amps-ac-dc- for the stator ?? I could-maybe sit down-spend afew days looking at it then try something, then put the fire out-order a pma with next months food money--but whats the fun in that??! Yes i've looked youtube all I came up with was how to make a pma--maybe afther I get it up & running first. Help Willie
-
OK people smarter than me, I have a 160amp delco alt.low cut in low speed(1600rpm max). I keep reading take out the recitifier and run wild ac on smaller wire up to your bat. bank (for me 200 ft.) then bank into the recitifier. Ok what do you do with the voltage reg.??? what about watts-volts-amps-ac-dc- for the stator ?? I could-maybe sit down-spend afew days looking at it then try something, then put the fire out-order a pma with next months food money--but whats the fun in that??! Yes i've looked youtube all I came up with was how to make a pma--maybe afther I get it up & running first. Help Willie
Get rid of the regulator and use a load controller to regulate the voltage at the battery bank. But, what would you use to excite the field winding?
What kind of alternator is it? Do you have a picture of is broken down?
I imagine the utube vids are referring to getting rid of the field coils and using magnets to build the field. Ie. removing the regulator and bridge and running the a/c to the controller house.
-
On the point of the alternator, if your hydro yielded 400W then you are looking at around 30 amps for a 12V system, not that an auto alternator is at all suitable as others have mentioned.
Perhaps a small 110VAC generator fed to a switch-mode power supply (SMPS) at the battery shed, HZ could be matched reasonably well but is not critical and most SMPS cover a wide range of voltages. Small China built gen-sets abound, just find one that the motor has died on, take the piston out and drive through the motor shaft.
Allan