Author Topic: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board  (Read 796 times)

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Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2021, 01:25:45 am »
Thanks Noneya. Today I changed the circuit breaker I had fitted to the inverter. I had a 120 amp marine/automotive type breaker and it was tripping out at 85 amps max. I had two of them and both did the same thing.
I found a supplier in Melbourne who had a 160 amp Beny double pole DC breaker for $154 delivered. Amazingly I ordered it yesterday and it arrived today.
I fitted the new breaker and then tried testing the inverter. I turned my solar panels off, to give the battery voltage a chance to fall.
The voltage fell down to just over 24 volts and held there.
I plugged in about 3500 watts of loads and the inverter shut down from current overload so I adjusted it to just hold that load and it seemed to run well.
The original powerjack transformer was 18volts to 220volts. The 8010 board specs said it wanted a 12 to 14 volt primary so in the end I unwound two turns off the low voltage side and it runs great.
Tomorrow morning will be the big test when the battery voltage has settled overnight and we try making breakfast and using the kettle again.
I am thinking that the marine/auto circuit breaker was too crappy and the voltage was falling across it, as it got hot. No idea how they can rate them at 120 amps when they can only hold 85 amps. So lesson learnt there.
I found that the LM324 op amp uses the 4th chip (pins 12,13,14. for the low voltage disconnect. So if I get a fault from Low input voltage again then I will have a go at adjusting the circuit to allow a lower threshold. Bit of a pain having to pull the board out again but I guess home made inverters like a bit of tinkering.
Thanks
Pete

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2021, 04:38:15 am »
makes perfect sense,  breakers should not get hot under normal operation... unless 1 you pulling close to its rated capacity for a time ( each can be different in time ) , or it no where big enough for what you want it to do... oh and then there is those crappy fleabay specials that never even get close to their " rated " capacity.. 

like you said, getting hot means resistance... and also means as it heats, it gets worse... which would explain undervoltage problems...

don't stress, once you have set it up, it'll run problem free for many years... mine is coming up on 5 years , about 2 on new Transformer...

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2021, 04:44:11 am »
oh and just a side note, if anyone interested... because mine lives " outside " ( in a open, but undercovered area) I coated any exposed board with this stuff... I reckon its made a difference protecting it, as heaps of bugs etc. have died in there and no damage has occurred..

https://www.jaycar.com.au/circuit-board-lacquer-spray-can/p/NA1002

Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2021, 05:21:17 pm »
I watched the monitor this morning and the voltage stayed above 24 volts when running the kettle. Seems like the breaker may have been the problem.
Noneya, I have seen circuit boards coated before, some with Brown or Black epoxy. The manufacturer was trying to make sure that no one copied his circuits. Of course they were very difficult to repair, meaning they had to be sent back to him to fix.
That Jaycar stuff looks good, I live in a very wet area so it may be worth doing  to my boards.
Thanks for the idea
Pete

Offline noneyabussiness

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2021, 07:35:44 pm »
beauty about this stuff is its " solder through " so easy repair if needed... also clear so can see any problems... good stuff you found the issue..

Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2021, 11:53:28 pm »
well this morning it shut down, cloudy day, kettle on, shutdown telling me low battery voltage.
You guys were right. I checked it out measuring voltages etc.
It was not regulating the output voltage well at all.
The output voltage was falling from 236 volts down to 206 volts, then it would shut down.
I checked my other inverter with the same load and it was drawing 110 amps from the batteries.
The new one was pulling 85 amps. For a while I was thinking it was much more efficient until I measured the output voltage dropping.

This transformer was set up for 18:220 volts, I took two turns off the low voltage side to get the output voltage up to 235 volts but it looks like it must have been saturating.
So I have added 30 turns to the output winding to give me a bit more headroom before saturation and plan to get some new cable for the low voltage side on Tuesday. It was wound with aluminium wire but I am going to try it with battery cable instead.
I will report back when I have tried it with the new turns ratio.
I need to get it to a 14:250volt ratio. So I will see how it goes.
Thanks
Pete

Offline lighthunter

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2021, 12:32:38 pm »

You guys were right. I checked it out measuring voltages etc.
It was not regulating the output voltage well at all.
The output voltage was falling from 236 volts down to 206 volts, then it would shut down.


Hi Pete😊
The breaker issue you found was certainly a win also, great work!

But then wether or not its a problem is completely how a guy looks at it and what your expectations are.

I added turns to my dual toroids for 120/240 instead of stock 110/220, when i switched to the 8010 i dropped a bit but only when i go below 48v supply.

If/when you find a deal on some good LFP like Doc H and swap the lead acid then you will never drop below 24 as theres not much left when you hit 3 volts per cell.

I do miss the old pjs but i dont miss having to change fets and drivers ::)

So unless you have a long wire run or an appliance that is getting hurt from low volts, then its not a big deal. You know your needs better than anyone though so good job in finding the culprit.(s)







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Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2021, 03:13:29 pm »
Thanks LH, so far I have added 30 turns to the secondary and will rewind the primary when I get some cable.
Strange how PJ changed things, the other two 8010 boards I am using were happy with the standard PJ windings, but this much larger transformer was wound for 18 to 220 volts.
I was not happy with winding the voltage down too far below 230 because of increased current draws.
Our supply used to be 240 volts but was downgraded to 230 volts on the mains. I can only assume it was because of ageing infrastructure. I still like to run 240 when possible so will wind the transformer to get near to that.
Thanks for the encouragement and help
Pete

Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2021, 09:25:05 pm »
I realised that I had some 6mm solar cable in the shed, having no use for it at the moment I wound the secondary of the transformer with 6 in parallel. It was quite good to work with as it is multi stranded and fine strands.
I ended up adding 30 turns to the output winding
and  wound the low voltage side with 4 turns less, so ended up with 18 turns on the low voltage side and 298 turns on the high voltage side.
I connected a 2300 watt load to the inverter as a test and it held 240 volts and regulated well. Looked at the wave shape on my scope and it is a beautifully clean sinewave.
So I am happy with it now.
The largest load I intend to run is 2400 watts, supposedly the 6mm solar cable is rated at 70 amps. I am guessing that is in air, but with 6 in parallel my 120 amp max draw should be fine. Time will tell.
Thanks again for the help
Pete

Offline lighthunter

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2021, 07:19:55 pm »
Great work Pete! Sounds like you really got it tweaked to perfection. I am quite curious what you mean by "Solar wire" maybe a product im just not familiar with. Seems like 6 in parallel of a wire that size would take up a lot of room. If it fit through the hole though, the more the merrier. You wont have added any loss with that low resistance.
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Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2021, 01:37:45 am »
Hi LH the wire was black double insulated 600 volt wire used to connect solar panels together.
I had some left over from the ground mounted panels that I connected up and added to the system.
The wire is fine stranded and tinned as well.
I am pretty dubious about 6mm wire carrying 70 amps, but that is what some sellers are claiming. My biggest loads are 2400 watts and I don't run more than one at a time so I will only need the transformer to carry about 120 amps max really on the low voltage side.
There was plenty of room in the core for the cable.
The core measured approximately 190mm outside diameter, 90 mm hole and 90 mm high.
It seems to run pretty cool even on large loads.
It is also very quiet, very hard to hear that it is running on light loads so that is a bonus.
I put a 24 volt fan from the 8kw powerjack on it. The board had an output socket for a 12 volt fan so I connected that socket to a relay to switch the 24 volt fan on. And put a 40 degree C thermostat onto the heatsink and transformer winding to make sure that if either got warm the fan would come on.
It has a beautiful clean sinewave even on heavy loads. The idle current is 0.9 amps which is lower than the PJ too.
So I am very happy with it.

Offline sunnypower46

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2021, 07:29:55 pm »
Been following this discussion; since at some point I expect to do the same with my PJ 24/8000.  It's been doing fine 24/7 for three years now.  Lifespan?  PJ delivering 240v local grid for Enphase IQ7+ microinverters paired to a sixteen panel (300w) array.  PJ backfeeding excess power to batteries with necessary overcharge protection (resistive dump load).

Anyway, have you considered using silicone wire for your primary?  I've had to boost & buck the center-tapped secondary of my transformer to get the voltages to match.  Working with #10 awg silcone wire made the job easy.  Super great flexibility and heat rating.

I think the solar cable you're working with (6mm square area) is typically #10 awg.  You said six in parallel through your core.

You may find less wires in parallel with a thicker (lower) awg size in silicone is doable, if that helps anything.

Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2021, 03:15:45 pm »
Hi Sunnypower, yes I had a look at some silicon cable I had. I used to use a lot of it for leads on electric motors when I was a working person.
I had a small length of 1.5 mm on hand but of course that was not big enough for the job.
The Solar cable well, I had it here, it is reasonably flexible, and there was plenty of room. I wanted a primary that would handle around 120 amps max. It does that fine.
The things that let PJ inverters down is usually lack of care when they build them.
Mine have died from things like, loose connections on high current sections. Such as where the cables join the main battery studs inside the inverter.
Loose screws can be deadly too, I have had a couple that came with screws rattling about in them.
Oh and they don't like being switched from charger mode/ grid mode to inverter mode fast too. They like that transition to be slow.
Oztules wrote quite a bit about them blowing up when he was using them as a minigrid.
The way you are using yours sounds like a fairly light load is on them most of the time so they should be fine.
The ones I had that blew up always took out the mosfets, some of their resistors and the drivers.
So far I am pretty happy with the 8010 boards, they are much simpler, are through hole components, they are however difficult to get information on. Circuit diagrams seem to be non existent ( except for the actual 8010 board) and the writing on the connectors is in Chinese but from what others say they seem to last well.
Cheers
Pete

Offline sunnypower46

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2021, 09:29:02 pm »
Thanks for the lifespan perspective.  Yes, the micros take most of the load off the PJ during sunlight.  My nighttime load is normally under 2000w (300w average), mostly early evening to heat/cool the house via 18,000 BTU minisplit.

I've reworked most of the innards to improve cooling during the summer months.  And I've disabled the charging circuit.  My biggest concern is the lifespan of the large DC filtering caps.  Replace 3-5-7+ years?  I know they're not happy with high temps.

I have three of the 24/8000 units.  They all have the same physical size toroid core, but each uses a different primary winding concept.
The newest appears to be wound eight parallel #14 copper joined to become four parallel (#8 or#10) feeders for the H-bridge separate DC + and -.

At some point I'll get the courage to unwind the primary and attempt two or three parallel #6 silicon.  I believe you were happy with 12-14 turns?  I've not researched the minimum cross-sectional area yet.

All three of my PJs have similar looking FET boards.  Obviously different version numbers, status lights added, etc.  Oldest one is a 2015 version.  Are these all useable with the 8010 chip?  I'm aware of the gate resistor-diode update discussion.  Certainly will double check the H-bridge ribbon cable connections, too.

In re-reading your post, though, I think you're modifying via the complete Chinese inverter package sans transformer.  Did you rule out using the PJ FET Power Board?


Offline Pete

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Re: 8010 based 5kw chinese sinewave mosfet inverter board
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2021, 09:58:28 pm »
Seemed that it was too much trouble to use the PJ fet power board to me. As it had already blown up a couple of times.
Also the 8010 aliexpress boards come with better fets too. Larger case types that take a bigger beating.
I ended up adding 30 turns to the high voltage ( secondary side of my transformer) and wound the primary with 18 turns.
The voltage I went for was 14 volts to 260 to allow plenty of headroom and prevent core saturation.
It works pretty good, I checked it this morning while adjusting the current limiting and with 200 amps flowing in the inverter the output voltage dropped to 227. I can live with that.
Most of my loads are max 2400 watts, and I only run one at a time.
As for using silicon to wind the primary, it is pretty expensive compared to Solar cable. I paid about $140 for a 100 metre roll of 6mm Twin cable.
I have had two 8kw powerjacks, one had two transformers in it and the other one had the big single transformer that I just changed.
The windings on the big powerjack were enamelled aluminium wire on my one. The original primary winding was 22 turns, so dropping 4 turns was fine as the 8010 board specs said that they wanted a 12 to 14 volt primary. I increased the secondary turns so that I could easily wind it up to output 240 volts rather than 220 volts.
As far as capacitors go, well getting good brand reliable caps is the way to go. Many of the cheap ones are not the size or voltage they state.
I used a large copper soldering iron to get mine out when I was testing it, ( before it blew up the second time). I heated the lump of copper iron up with a gas torch and used it so resolder the caps too. That worked great as my 60 watt Weller iron could not generate enough heat to overcome the thickness of the tracks and solder.
It will cost more for good quality caps but in the long run they will be worth it.
Pete