Anotherpower.com Forum
Off Grid Living / Camping => Camping / Camp sites / Recreational Vehicles => Tents / RV => Topic started by: Watt on March 30, 2012, 11:50:20 pm
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I have two fifth wheel campers. One we use for travel and the other we use for when the in-laws are visiting. We had a second meter installed due to the distance the mostly permanent camper is from our electrical supply. Anyway, with zero visits in a month, we were getting 60 and 70 dollar bills. We found most of the power was being used at keeping the batteries cooked. We have a thermostat on a small fan in the shower to help keep the summer time temps down in the camper and it does run a few hours of the day but, wow, not that much. So, we added a 230 watt panel on the roof of the " RV barn " and we will see how it goes this summer.
Anyway, anyone else done something similar with that darn converter? I think one camper has a transformer based unit and the other is a 3 stage unit which doesn't seem to shut off.
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I have no direct experience with this, but I have heard and read about it a lot. There are plenty of people I know that have a disconnect for them and put in a much more economical maintainer. Many of them only use that maintainer if the place is occasional use.
The panel sounds like a great idea with a cheap off the hardware store shelf charge controller.
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Yes, I removed the converter from our fifth wheel about three years ago and replaced it with an AIMS 3 kW inverter/charger. I don't remember who made the power converter but the cooling fan squealed in it and it boiled the batteries dry all the time.
The inverter charger works better because now we got 120 volt power in the camper without having to run the little Onan generator in it.
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Chris
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I have no direct experience with this, but I have heard and read about it a lot. There are plenty of people I know that have a disconnect for them and put in a much more economical maintainer. Many of them only use that maintainer if the place is occasional use.
The panel sounds like a great idea with a cheap off the hardware store shelf charge controller.
Wolv
I've got a classic on it at the moment. I have one which will be used on the tracking system I'm hoping to get together soon.
Really though, I am looking for controller I put on it permanently, got any suggestions as I need a mppt type since it is actually a 24v panel ( 29.6vmp ) I've thought about rewiring the panel with two parallel cables coming out of the box. Removing one diode and adding two wires if that makes since and using an easy to find 12v controller. Do you happen to know of an economical mppt controller which will work with a 230w panel and 12v?
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Yes, I removed the converter from our fifth wheel about three years ago and replaced it with an AIMS 3 kW inverter/charger. I don't remember who made the power converter but the cooling fan squealed in it and it boiled the batteries dry all the time.
The inverter charger works better because now we got 120 volt power in the camper without having to run the little Onan generator in it.
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Chris
Chris
I've thought about doing that very same thing to our travel camper. Have you had any further problems with boiling the batteries since you implemented that AIMS inverter?
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I've thought about doing that very same thing to our travel camper. Have you had any further problems with boiling the batteries since you implemented that AIMS inverter?
Absolutely none. The power converter has a transfer relay in it, that when plugged into shore power, flips to take the DC load off the batteries and it runs the DC loads with the transformer in the converter. It's VERY inefficient and that transformer gets hot with just light DC loads on.
I took that whole works out and replaced the DC distribution center with a marine power bus. Then installed the AIMS 3 kW with the output on the AIMS powering all the AC loads in the camper, and the AC input on the AIMS going to the transfer switch that allows us to get AC power from either the Onan or shore power.
When you provide AC input to the inverter it has an internal transfer switch that flips and all the AC loads go direct thru, and it switches to battery charging. It has an internal "smart" charger that charges the batteries and then shuts off when they're fully charged. The DC loads never get switched off the battery bank (two Group 4D marine deep cycles, 200 ah each). The AIMS will not start charging the bank again until the voltage drops below rebulk voltage (below 12.5 volts for about two hours). It does not waste power floating the bank.
It is a so much better setup than the original power converter that there is no comparison. This is the inverter we have in our camper:
http://www.aimscorp.net/3000-watt-power-inverter-with-battery-charger-and-transfer-switch-12-volt/
We went fishing in Canada where there is no grid or shore power available. We lived in our camper for 7 days with nothing but a 123 watt Sharp solar panel to help keep the bank up. We ran the furnace at night because it was cold, plus my wife used her hair dryer (1800 watts) just about every day. We made coffee with our electric coffee maker, we made toast with the toaster, and we watched TV (19" LCD ~45 watts) on the only TV station we could get up there. We never ran the generator once for the whole week.
Those power converters are 1970's technology.
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Chris
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my trailer also has one of those power monger converters in it. the trailer is a '76 airstream 32'. the converter is much larger than a loaf of bread, and it pretty darn warm even if nothing is turned on. terribly inefficient!
my case is a little different as the trailer never moves, and no longer has batteries in it. i want to connect it to my RE system (24v), and have via the shore plug into the inverter, but it drains my batteries pretty hard over night. i'm pretty sure there are a ton of phantom loads in that thing...
so, just ordered a 120 to 12V 30A 360W Switch Power Supply Driver For LED, off ebay from china. lets hope it work for a whopping $29. thinking when i tear out the old one, i'm only gonna reconnect the wires that i need and hopefully end up with a more efficient converter that is no longer feeding any phantom loads. basically, i want it for is the lights, furnace, oven ignition, exhaust hood, and oven light. the bathroom has also been torn out and converted to a bedroom.
adam
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Birdhouse, have you got your new power supply?
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Those power converters are 1970's technology.
Mine was 1930's technology.
12V is 12V, right?
Nope.
It smoked a very expensive car stereo in the blink of an eye.
Issue #1) It made 12VAC, while loaded. Unloaded is a LOT more.
Issue #2) 12VAC rated loaded, when rectified, is a whole lot of basically unloaded VDC.
Issue #3) Very expensive 12VDC car stereos do NOT apperciate a whole lot of VDC input.
I would shut it off at night just because of that 60Hz buzzing... unless it was cold enough to need the LP gas heater.
I never saw the guts of a camper with a regulated battery charger built in, that I can recall.
The ones I saw were all just a big transformer intended the feed an unsensitive load, or feed a battery sized just large enough to deal with overcharge conditions and loads for the 3 day weekend, but no longer.
But I never saw the guts of an Airstream either.
G-
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Those power converters are 1970's technology.
Mine was 1930's technology.
12V is 12V, right?
Nope.
It smoked a very expensive car stereo in the blink of an eye.
Issue #1) It made 12VAC, while loaded. Unloaded is a LOT more.
Issue #2) 12VAC rated loaded, when rectified, is a whole lot of basically unloaded VDC.
Issue #3) Very expensive 12VDC car stereos do NOT apperciate a whole lot of VDC input.
I would shut it off at night just because of that 60Hz buzzing... unless it was cold enough to need the LP gas heater.
I never saw the guts of a camper with a regulated battery charger built in, that I can recall.
The ones I saw were all just a big transformer intended the feed an unsensitive load, or feed a battery sized just large enough to deal with overcharge conditions and loads for the 3 day weekend, but no longer.
But I never saw the guts of an Airstream either.
G-
I must have had one of the same models in my camper. That thing was heavy as can be. Although, it did run the ' car style deck ' with no trouble. I have a solid state style somewhere that stopped working in our last camper. I need to find it and see if any of you could give me a clue as to what is wrong with it.
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watt-
still waiting. hoping it shows up tomorrow as i'm going up to my place tomorrow!
adam
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I never saw the guts of a camper with a regulated battery charger built in, that I can recall.
I can imagine the 1930's ones were worse. Ours had a little electronic 1.5 amp battery smoker board in it. That "charger" put 1.5 amps into the battery and it would hold the batteries at about 14.7 volts constantly once they got charged up. So it must've been voltage regulated but it didn't know when charging was supposed to be finished and it just kept boiling the battery.
We never had any problems with any of the DC stuff in the camper from the transformer though.
I still got that thing around here someplace - I know I didn't throw it out because it still worked. Our camper is a 30 foot Dutchmen, and the other bad thing was that they only had 10 gauge wire feeding the DC fuse panel. The wires ran under floor in the camper for about 20 feet from the forward battery compartment to the fuse panel and they weren't big enough. When I put the inverter in I replaced those wires with 2/0 cables.
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Chris
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The reason I couldn't find that old MagnaTek Power Converter is because it's still in the housing, just disconnected. I brought our 5th wheel to life today - put water in the fresh water tank and checked all the plumbing. Fired the water heater, furnace and 'fridge to make sure those all work. Started the Onan generator to make sure that works.
This is some photos of the camper with the inverter in it:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Since the batteries have been idle all winter (two Group 4D's @ 200 ah each) and they're too heavy to take out of the battery bay unless absolutely necessary, I leave them in the camper with a little Coleman solar battery maintainer on them. They were at 12.62 volts when I brought the camper to life. I ran the TV, air conditioner, and all the AC lighting for awhile to pull them down. Then started the Onan to charge them up and boil them for an hour or so at 15.0 volts with the inverter charger.
The shore power cord goes to the transfer switch on the Onan from the AC input on the inverter. It used to go into the AC Main but the inverter's output feeds that now. There's one breaker that feeds the old power converter and that breaker is left constantly off so the power converter never comes on.
Been very happy with this setup. The AIMS inverter will run anything in the camper, including the AC, and it totally silent. The buzzing from that power converter used to drive us nuts after awhile. Then when the fan started to squeal in it I made this "mod" with the inverter in there.
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Chris
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Nice!
We have a pop up camper not even close to that nice, but makes up for it by having almost no effect on gas mileage.
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It's a Ductchmen Classic 285. We looked for a long time to find it because we wanted one with no slideouts. Slideouts let mosquitoes and black flies in around the gaskets on the slideouts when you're camping in Canada.
We pull it either behind mine, or my wife's, Dodge Cummins trucks with the boat hooked on behind the camper. The rig is 76 feet long with either truck. But both my wife and I are CDL drivers because we drive semis all the time. With a CDL you can get a permit to run over-length in the States. When we go into Canada (Ontario) the max length is 23 meters so I have to take the transom bar off the outboard and lower the outboard, and then it just makes it to the legal length there.
My truck with a chipped Cummins 610, 490 hp, 810 lb-ft torque @ 1,550 rpm, and a Spicer 9 speed gets 17-18 mpg pulling the whole rig. My wife's Dodge Cummins with a 6.7, 350 hp, 650 lb-ft torque with an automatic transmission gets 13-14 mpg pulling the same rig.
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Chris
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Humm will i cant decide do i open a new topic or try beat some life out on this one. But I to am dispiritedly trying to get my 20 footer off the monster eating my electric bill up to and I need try do so with out that fantasy stuff people call cash !
I am working on a small wind mill of hard drive mags because I have WAY more then enough and even soon will be posting quit a few up for sale and i have more then enough magwire at 18 to 27 agw and i would thing as well a good surplus of 14 agw from microwave transformers i never bothered to re wind yet. I was hoping to find any one that migh have all ready done some trail blazing with say old desk tops power supply's for there water pump and general lighting and possibly back up the charging on a pare of 109ah deep cycles.
I regret i did not consider the psu, before i took a large grope of industrial servers psu's in for salvage but i have a hand full of desk tops still on hand.
I am hoping there are a few that maybe all ready explored this and maybe the Ghurd controller used to manage the loads to help between the truck wind mile or utility powering the system. I forget to add to the systems equation i intend run a Harbor fright 1500/3000 watt inverter to run a small fridge rated half that of the inverter.
I was given a Exide 2000ex charger inverter with the control panel with trim pots for current for the charge and cycling of the battery bank. The charger/inverter stopped the guy told me, but it still has the circuit or device that switches the system on and off when it is plunged in and detects shore power. Got a nice Onan to i no longer see use for that I was going to cut new brushes for.
I have had no luck even with all the marinas i am surrounded by to find a tec sheet or repair shop for the excide 2000ex. I guess with all the money flows this way for the boating industry , It is the state of the norm they break / they replace instead of repair? What a waist !
But I welcome any ideas or help with this project . Sadly I also am soon the close down my shop and can only hope to set up a new one once I am settled in the Philippines. But that wont be of use back here in the states when I'll be living on the road with the trailer. Sadly we do not have enough states that allow duel trailers to drag a travail shop with me and I don't think I can afford the fuel any way LOL
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I am not quite clear on what you are trying to do.
If you are just trying to "maintain" (from another post) a pair of 110AH marine batteries for LED lighting, then that does not take a whole lot. Certainly not the 20A mentioned elsewhere.
Some people use a modified version of the Ghurd Controller for a backup grid powered charger.
When the battery gets low (12.25V), then the relay feeds grid power to a battery charger.
When the bettery gets full enough (maybe about 12.8V, but depends on the system size and loads) the relay shuts off grid power to the charger.
Works fine with cheap simple transformer chargers.
G-
SSR is Solid State Relay.
The "about 500 ohms" needed reduced to maybe 220(?) with his SSR.
Notice both fets are N-channel.
(http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww20/ghurd1/Sketches/GridBatBooster.gif)