Author Topic: guess who bought a power jack inverter  (Read 220167 times)

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Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #435 on: April 21, 2016, 06:33:53 am »
RF, I mean a grid tie.

The PJ already has syncing facility in place on it's 240v input.... it just does not "unsync" nicely unless it it turned off... or use non torroids with plenty of leakage.

Interested in your inverter syncing ideas..... I have no use for it, but others may.

Light, grid tie looks pretty simple really... it can be made difficult, or be simple.... same as the pure sine wave turned out to be.
No computer required if you don't want to use one as I see it.

With computer, it is still just jump table and scaling... just like the pure wave... the only real  difference is zero cross syncing, and that looks simple too.
I will go analog first I think.

Actually the 8010 chip has variable frequency, and syncing that to the mains should be simple enough... so I suspect you can build a grid tie around that pretty simply..... haven't though much about it as yet.

.............oztules

Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline RFburns

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #436 on: April 21, 2016, 03:57:37 pm »
Mmm syncing to the grid at a glance seems pretty straight forward.  In most (grid tie) inverter designs, a PLL provides the mechanism at the heart of this synchronization process.  A suitable PLL a zero-crossing detector on the grid waveform and a counter to measure the time between zero crossings — adjusting inverter output as needed to match grid-voltage zero crossings .You could use a differential op amp to trigger the next cycle of the output waveform from a reference sine-wave generator. In a discrete inverter this would not be such a challange (in the real world changes in load etc.. make this not so simple). Using the EG8010 maybe an option from the data sheet

"EG8010 has two frequency modes: constant frequency mode and adjustable frequency mode. In adjustable frequency mode, EG8010 only uses unipolar modulation, and pin (20)MODSEL has to
connect to low level. Pins FRQSEL1 and FRQSEL0 set the frequency mode. In constant frequency mode, “00” outputs 50Hz frequency and “01” outputs 60Hz frequency. FRQADJ has no function in
constant mode. Pin (16) is used as VFB2 voltage feedback circuit under bipolar modulation. In adjustable frequency mode, “10” outputs frequency in range of 0-100Hz and “11” outputs frequency
in range of 0-400Hz. Pin FRQADJ adjusts the frequency as shown in figure 8.6a. Pin FRQADJ’s voltage varies from 0-5V, which is corresponding to the fundamental wave output frequency from
0-100Hz or 0-400Hz. This function accompanies with pin VVVF can be used in the single phase frequency transformer system.
5541-0

I believe that there is possiabilty here
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Cheap and fast wont be reliable.
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Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #437 on: April 21, 2016, 04:37:25 pm »
Lighthunter, I have no experience with HF grid ties..... your on your own here..... my suspicion would be to go with two strings.


...........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline grabra17

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #438 on: April 21, 2016, 06:32:09 pm »
Hi I bourght a Powerjack inverter 8000w 24v 240v 50hz.
The main board split every mosfet transistor.
I have tried to contact them for warranty or parts.
Can anyone give me any ideas.

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #439 on: April 22, 2016, 01:13:12 am »
only 3 choices, fix it if you can, or buy new boards for your current unit.. thats 2 fixes. no 3 fix is if you can't get new boards then perhaps one of these will do you fine, and cheaper as well probably..... you may need to take a few turns off your transformer primary... not sure of your input voltage into your transformer.

https://world.taobao.com/item/522948147797.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700846.0.0.xamBYI&_u=l1rmv006e1e6

there are other sites that sell them that are easier to access, aliexpress, and yocart etc.

............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline OTG

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #440 on: April 22, 2016, 06:51:34 pm »
Bad joke I come across when researching my LF5000 MB failure...

Q: Why does a MOSFET always fail short-circuit ?
A: So that the opposing MOSFET is also destroyed of course ! (It must be a Murphy law thing.)

 :P

grabra17 - to confirm you do have a LF pure sine unit, as opposed to a modified sine HF unit?

Diagnosing such failures is rarely simple, but before I did anything I'd want to be damn sure it wasn't "user error" (e.g. over-voltage,  prolonged or transient over current, etc). I've got two 24v LF8000's and have found them to be rock-solid. Even my now board swapped LF5000 holds its own...

Otherwise as our resident wizard of OZ stated, you'll need to 1. replace MB Mosfets, or 2. swap out the boards.

So far as bang for your buck goes, I'd just get new MB/CB boards (I'd grab a backup pair while you're at it) and be done with it. Maybe try salvage the MB with a mosfet sawp later if you can be bothered?

I'll PM you contact details for Cher from Power Jack who should be able to sort you out (she has been very helpful to many of us here).

Whatever you do, don't give up!!!  ;D I and many others have found these inverters to be great little front line units!

PS: my neighbours $4k Selectronic SP Pro inverter packed it in the other day... just 15 days out of warranty! ::) So don't think premature deaths are exclusive to Chinese inverters. :)

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #441 on: April 22, 2016, 07:04:31 pm »
"PS: my neighbours $4k Selectronic SP Pro inverter packed it in the other day... just 15 days out of warranty! ::) So don't think premature deaths are exclusive to Chinese inverters. :)"

Yes The man up on the hill with the AWP mill, had two mother boards replaced in the first few months of buying his $10k inverter .
In the finish they replaced the unit completely ... good service, but when remote, this took 2 months to get right.

The PJ and the new 8010 still drive his loads better than the selectronic. His expensive unit will drive the welders nicely, but won't drive front loader washing machines... even the expensive european brands... PJ and the 8010 and the 002 drive it without any qualms at all. The selectronic will do it if the hot water is on, and already running a few kw... then the washing machine works properly.

Since the initial teething problems, it has run for the last 8 years without trouble.... not used for the last 2 years except for grid tie reverse charging purposes, and generator startups... but no problems. Could build a dozen better inverters for the price..... He did not have that skill then, but does now.


...............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline solarnewbee

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #442 on: April 24, 2016, 08:55:08 pm »
"His expensive unit will drive the welders nicely, but won't drive front loader washing machines... even the expensive european brands..."

Oztules

That statement got me thinking, the fact that front loaders as well as mini_split ductless AC units and newer fridges in the asian market contain inverters themselves have an effect on any power inverter?

Solarnewbee
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #443 on: April 24, 2016, 11:30:49 pm »
The ones with inverters in them should be fine... they rectify the AC, and usually with PFC in place.... even better.

It is anything with phase triggered scr and triacs at low power that causes all the fuss.
I am guessing they try to be too cute, and modify the waves all through the cycle, rather than just scaling a jump table..... trouble for them is that unless you use a complete wave each time, then you will confuse it .

If you run a toaster at the same time, then all is good, but with no other loads, it just gets totally confused and the washer machine won't get going anywhere/somewhere/nowhere ( random)  during the cycle.....


.....................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline solarnewbee

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #444 on: May 06, 2016, 10:24:19 pm »
This pj topic moved on to other things I've realized but I'm wondering about my Pj 8000w 24v 220v and the fact that the one Oztules had has 2 xfmrs and mine only has one. I bought the 8kw because I figured on not going much over 6kw not wanting to blow anything.

The pj people don't seem to warrant their gear even though their system accepts warranty registration. They list Skype and email and have quit answering. Dr powerjack on eBay has replacement parts but shipping is an arm and a leg.

GC_Supermarket on eBay has some really low priced semiconductors including irf1405 MosFet around $1usd each. Micro-controllers (Arduino, Raspberry PI)too if someone wants to venture into controlling and monitoring of your systems.

Good Day!

SN
SN

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Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #445 on: May 07, 2016, 02:09:02 am »
If you duplicate the 8010 board, or the egs002 board, you won't need PJ anymore... you can build a new controller and restack the fet board for the price of their postage alone.... problem solved.
 
It looks as if the board problem will be solved very soon by Clockman too.... saves you messing up the wifes sink with ferric chloride or HCl Cuso4 solutions.... ;D

I don't know why the 8kw units now have only one lonely transformer... the two I got in my original 8kw unit....were too small for more than 3, and maybe 4kw continuous with cooling.

I would probably still use the 4110 even at 24v... cheap and nasty, but still pretty strong.... and I have plenty on hand... would not use 24v for anything over 2-3kw.... better to go 48v... with the 8010 thats already to go at any voltage over 12v.


..................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline rossw

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #446 on: May 07, 2016, 02:54:17 am »
ok, I'm going to ask a really dumb question here....
If these things are so bullet-proof, solid and inexpensive, and the only thing they don't do well is transition to/from mains, has anyone thought about using them as the back-end .... of an inverter style generator?!

I don't expect it'd take TOO much extra effort to do some rudimentary form of throttle control from input voltage.
Is it feasible to build one that will run from 200+VDC (perhaps as much as 350V) so we could "convert" an ordinary dumb genset into an inverter output one? Nice, clean, fixed-frequency output... the FETs would be far smaller because of the lower current, the transformer would be close to 1:1, perhaps something like 3:4 to give it some headroom - but again, smaller windings.

Just musing....

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #447 on: May 07, 2016, 03:24:33 am »
yes,

The 8010 or 002 would do fine, the pj would require some modding/deception to get it to run at a voltage other than designated.

Probably the 8010 would be the best, as it is easy to customise, and little to go wrong.Fair chance the normal governor would do fine for the job if just pure sine was the goal.... but if you want slow motor on low output, then yes a controller would need to be fashioned.

The older reliable cap field gennies need higher rpm... so they would not do unless you only wanted clean power.

Units with AVR would probably still need a fair rpm to keep them stable, as if you let the rpm drop too much, you may burn out the rotor or the rotor drive coils in the stator........

I don't know what sort they use for the normal units doing this.

For home brew, would probably go for a HV car alternator style of device in that case... ie  the usual AVR type of 240v alternator......voltage does not matter so much then, so we can use the field for our purposes.

 I could effect output by rpm and field winding. You would be surprised at how much current can be developed at reasonably low rpm with just a car alt and a controller .. ie at little more than an idle you can still get 40 amps if you drive the field on most cars hard..... so I would go that style ( 48v), and gear it up if no AVR sort handy, so that most times I was at low speed for most of the power range, and only ramp rpm up if I was pushing it hard.... then back off field as rpm rose.... so nano or similar so decisions can be made..... certainly doable via analog too.

With the transformer, drive voltage is just a side issue... what ever transformer we have and we can accommodate it.

By using field and rpm for power control, I expect it would be pretty stable.

Just off the top of my head anyway.


edit... actually. in my journals somewhere, there are descriptions of avr units I repaired/rewound, and also motor car alternator sets i built.... they both lend themselves to this project.... particularly the car alt sets. you can do without a controller for them, they run low speed anyway, and the govenor controls the motor as the regulator does it's thing.

In truth, I would not bother... more solar and no generator is my motto.... and I'm further south than you...... and for a genny, a 5hp honda and a few 48v alternators would do in a pinch.

Co-generating is pointless if your transformer is big enough, as keeping the fets cool is easy enough at high power from my experience so far.


......................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline off the wall

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #448 on: May 07, 2016, 03:40:06 am »
Apologies for being out of the picture recently - by egs002 are you referring to http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-SPWM-Board-EGS002-EG8010-IR2110-Driver-Module-DC-AC-/231855517304 ?

I am promised by Cher that the new one transformer 8000LF units can do 4kW "continuous" - that really probably means for 5 minutes . . . Solarnewbe - can you do a test on yours at 3kW and at 4kW?

Apparently they have stopped making the 15000LF but are still making a 10000LF.

Has anyone worked out how one can enable one control board to drive multiple driver boards and their transformers? This would enable the PJ units to be stacked . . .

Best wishes

OTW


Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #449 on: May 07, 2016, 03:46:17 am »
Yes OTW thats the board.

As  you have been away, read this if you want to get up to speed on the boards and their performance and how to etc etc.


http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,1116.0.html

It is long ... but plenty of learning was done along the way.

..............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia