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Project Journals => Users Projects => Topic started by: solarnewbee on May 22, 2016, 08:09:43 pm

Title: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on May 22, 2016, 08:09:43 pm
So,,,,

I have received lots of great feedback from other like Oz, RF, Ross, Lachlan, Dan and others. Oz suggested I put my project here to keep better track and solicit feedback and please, kind criticisms so that I might improve the system overall.

Sketches to follow and pics.

 this will be a completely
I am working with the PowerJack 8000w LF pure sine wave inverter that's been blessed by Oz and I will be making adjustments recommended by same. Only difference being that mine has a built in MPPT solar panel charge controller and the toroid coil takes up all of the space to the left of the main and control boards, whereas Oz's had 2 toroid coils.

system will have as follows:

1). 20-300w poly panels 10 each on the eastern side of the 2nd floor roof and 10 each on the western side of same roof at the recommended 10 to 15 degree incline (southerly?)

2). 24v PJ 8000w inverter

3.) 1 2400w pma wind turbine connected thru an MPPT charge controller which includes an ATS function to switch to another       load, in my case to a dump load especially when winds exceed the need. DUMP LOAD, what is it? Ideas on best build for a dump load. resistor bridge? DC water heater? Space heater converted to 24v? Would greatly appreciate a sketch of a resistor dump load.

4). 2-2400w 120a MPPT solar charge controllers attached to the separate banks of 10 each panels.

5). 16-3.2v 200ah LiFePO4 batteries separated in 2 banks 8 each in series for 25.6v 200ah ea, then both banks paralleled for 400ah total (math?)

6). PowerJacks 3000w autostart 24w lpg genset in case of maintenance, special circumstances or other failures occurring.

7). Automatic electric transfer box in case of inverter failure to switch to Meralco.

8). Lastly (maybe, there is a lot more learning curve involved with coding Arduino and Raspberry Pi) microcontrollers to monitor and report system aspect such as inverter temps battery temps and voltage system wide along with those items the lcd monitors on the PJ are monitoring.
These Stats will be relayed via dyndns.org to an app on my iphone or iPad as well as sms text alerts to my phone via a gsm module.
I also desire the microcontrollers to not just read stats but take action such as taking control of the cooling fan in the PJ (zap spiders Oz :0), maybe shut down a bank of batteries, switch to to the grid if absolutely necessary (i'm going for off-grid because electric credits do me no good if it's only $1.25 to have the service on standby, reset the inverter automatically for re-try after overload or undervolt etc.

all for now.

SN


Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on July 08, 2016, 02:02:01 am
Hi Solar newbee, somewhere I saw that you were looking for a mud map of a delta connected load dump.
So here is one. If you put two of your 1 ohm resistors in parallel in each branch you will have a 0.5 ohms per phase.
If you go for three in each branch you will have 0.33 ohms per phase.
I guess you could start with one or two resistors in each branch and see how much braking it gives you. It is pretty easy to add more resistors in parallel if you need more braking.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on January 29, 2017, 03:02:07 pm
Hey Pete

My second Dump load, first one looks similar. 1 ohm resistors in delta. I built 2 in case I need to halve the resistance. tell me what you think.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on January 29, 2017, 03:34:44 pm
Installed recently on vacation. Not running due to contractor failing me on panels install. I would do it but at 295 I'm too heavy to walk on a tile roof without breaking the tiles.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on February 01, 2017, 02:34:49 pm
Hi Solar, looks fine, did you put heat transfer compound under the resistors?
I am thinking that you could have an arduino monitoring the output voltage of the wind turbine, if the wind is too strong and the voltage goes over a set point, then the second dump load could be switched in automatically.
The project looks great, certainly a large installation, you should not run out of power.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on July 01, 2017, 03:52:08 pm
Hi Pete,

Sorry for the late reply I have been super busy since I returned from the Philippines. The Windmill project will be completed when move there in about 2 years. I did put compound under the resistors, plenty. I Have the other dump load here in the US. There are 3 charge controllers that are for front and rear panels on the roof and for the windmill. The windmill charge controller has dual charging capabilities so when the batteries are full it will activate the contactors connecting the windmill dumploads. You have a good point there about switching on the second dump load at certain voltage levels. I have purchased an analog voltage sensor that reads up to 240 volts to give an analog output 0-5v. Still learning some coding, IDE and Python and using http://cayenne.mydevices.com as a way to use their icloud servers to monitor remotely from anywhere. The easiest to set up is the Rpi with no coding involved but I haven't had much luck with voltage monitoring which involves analog to digital devices. The MCP3008 have proved to be finicky so I have a serial ADS1115 converter on the way. Cayenne improves on their system in leaps and bounds. I have a dashboard set with widgets that monitors temps in the inverter and operate the cooling fan as I have noticed that the powerjack cooling setup seems iffy. I have coded an arduino that successfully monitors temps and voltages as a backup to the Rpi3. My goal is to use a the mega based PLCduino, the black box at top, as the backup but it doesn't seem to want to play nicely with the same code.

I recently delved into python script with the help of Cayenne tribe members and forums at Stackoverflow.com to remotely reset the Rpi from the arduino and vice versa from my Cayenne dashboard. Cayenne is free for personal use by the way and the Cayenne community is very helpful when anyone hits a wall. They are amazingly helpful to newbees like myself. There was one guy that got snarky and sarcastic but the booted him.

Thanks again,
Solarnewbee
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on July 02, 2017, 07:20:37 pm
Anyone interested in viewing my fledgling arduino/Rpi3 project dashboard the following links will allow it

https://cayenne.mydevices.com/shared/59598d2add9f5e4dd3b960de

https://cayenne.mydevices.com/shared/59598dc2dd9f5e4dd3b960df

Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on July 12, 2017, 07:28:28 pm
Here's a sketch for the Mega PLCduino to control fans etc and monitor voltages. That's the black box in the pic above with the wifi antenna sticking out.

https://gist.github.com/wmontg5988/e0b098aef288b5a07f1ab756e6e30a61

Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 03, 2018, 07:33:11 pm
Hey All!

I have purchased new mppt chargers that can handle 145v pv in. I would like to rectify 120vac to 120vdc for testing purposes with my new pj 2017 that has 2 main boards. Trying to put it thru it’s paces but blew out a power supply trying. I had planned on using a 40 amp bridge and big caps but not sure if that will fly.

Any thoughts!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: tinyt on March 03, 2018, 08:05:07 pm
Hi Solarnewbee,

120vac is rms, if you diode bridge rectify it, the capacitor will be charged to the peak voltage of the rms. For sine wave it is 1.414 x Vrms = 1.414 x 120 = 169.7 vdc (less the drop on the diode bridge, maybe 2 volts). So it will exceed the mppt rating.

One way example only:
For 140vdc, you will need 99vac. If you have a step down transformer with isolated secondary of about 20 volts, you can connect the secondary in series but out of phase with the utility power lines, 120 - 20 = 100VAC. Make sure it is out of phase, else you will get 140vac. Also, be careful you are working with high voltage with practically unlimited power behind it.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 04, 2018, 12:33:34 pm
Thanks for the info TinyT,

I have a step down transformer I use for HVAC that steps down from 120, 208 or 240 to 24v. I have tried many configurations but get the same results. Any ideas where to head from here? You were definitely right about the voltage, as soon as I added caps the voltage jumped to from 122vac to 165vac.

Thanks
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: tinyt on March 04, 2018, 01:18:01 pm
See attached picture.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 04, 2018, 04:48:21 pm
Got it down to 146! The charger although doesn't seem to like that.
Would a high wattage 100r get it down to comfortable levels?, say around 125?

The 145v is the PV open circuit volts. PV array MPPT voltage range is 32-130v, so I will need to go lower.

maybe a voltage divider with 100w resistors. 22k x 3.9k = 124.015.

Watcha think?
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: tinyt on March 04, 2018, 06:50:55 pm
It might work. But maybe shoot for 130vdc (92vac) so change the 3.9k to 6.8k. You might need a fan to cool down the resistors.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 11, 2018, 07:46:25 pm
Hey tinyt,

Seems 100w 22k and many other values are not popular. I’m going for 6.9k x 6.9k for 73v. Since I’m using 36v 300w panels I am series them for 72v. I have a blown power supply that I put the high voltage dc supply in and it has a heat sink and fan. I had to put a 2 meg resistor across to drain the caps so I don’t get a bite. Got a screwdriver stuck to the leads taking a short cut ;D. If the system can’t keep up then maybe triple up for  108v. For now I’ve got 2 marine batteries and 2 1500w space heaters for testing.

Are you familiar with PJ inverters. My15kw has 2 power boards and one control board. Each has 2 smaller heat sinks with fets that are on the coil side and a large heat sink that the positive is connected to. If you had to label these, what would you label them. I have ds18b20 temp sensors on each heat sink that show on a dashboard to monitor temps and control the fan. I know Oz covered this somewhere and that thread is very long. Coil has one too.

Cheers!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: tinyt on March 12, 2018, 08:41:08 am
Hi SN,

I am just starting on this hobby and just started designing an experimental inverter based on Oz/Clockmanfr designs. It is still on paper but will be ordering the PCB soon. I opened a thread in the backshed forum for this.

I am sorry I don't have a powerjack. Maybe others can help.

Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 12, 2018, 11:00:05 am
The fet boards pull almost 1 amp on the DC side. Not enough led’s to draw that much. What you think that’s all about? Anyone?
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on November 20, 2018, 12:27:15 pm
Ok, update,

Seems it was a dummy moment, stop and read the instructions fully. Must be reset at power up every time. Funny how that works. Now reads 0 amps battery draw inverter off.

Next decision is in January. I’m determined to get the panels on the roof when we vacation in the Philippines. The sheet metal under the tile roof apparently isn’t thick enough to accommodate installers methods. To reiterate I’m too big to stand on those tiles. I have to have a grid welded to the roof to bolt the rails to that will hold the whole thing down in case of typhoon or they won’t guarantee the install.

I need advice guys:

My panels are as follows
300w
72 cell
36 volts (I tested with a meter on the 2 shattered panels in indirect sun and they read 36v)
Label reads 8.78 amps and other stuff I can’t remember.

My charge controllers can handle 144v and 2800w. I’m not even going to bother with the pj ones. I have 5400w total. If I connect in series In pairs, 72v, that cuts the watts In half? Increase in voltage pushes more current if i read correctly. I’m sure I need to go above 36v but just not sure if connecting in 3’s for 108v would lower or increase my charging capacity. I have looked around the net but there isn’t really any discussion on this matter. With 18 panels there’s only room for 2 more panels one on front side and one on the back. The terrace roof may hold between 6 and 9 in the future.

I can’t tell you how tempting it was to try and glue a piece of tempered glass over the shattered panels and use them anyway. Shipper refused my claim and the factory just wanted to send new ones when I bought more. I was like, nope, not buying from you again. Alibaba.com is a great place to buy wholesale because they care if your a company or not and many have minimums of one and will ship with an invoice that shows a much lower price for customs and says samples of let’s say “batteries”. That’s exactly how they shipped my lifepo4 batteries. The fees were much lower. Always best to find the company that has sold the highest dollar amounts. PayPal is a plus too. As far as my broken panels go I went to my bank and back charged the whole thing then sent them the appropriate amount minus 2 panels and shipping.

Awaiting your best advice!

SN
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: WooferHound on November 21, 2018, 05:58:11 am
Well . . . if the charge controllers can handle 144v then 108 volts seems completely acceptable. Starting to get dangerous though.
As I understand it , any overvoltage is converted to amps in the process so any series/parallel connection of the panels will give you the same charging capacity.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on January 17, 2019, 10:27:14 am
Well,

It happened, my panels are finally up. Cost?, 15k ($300) found these guys on Facebook marketplace and were ready for me the day after my plane landed.  800ah of lfp are reaching float by 10am after a night of 1 1/2 window units running,(1/2 unit being set at 28 for the inverter room) electric fans, fridge, water cooler. Anything that can be is inverter tech. 8kw PJ as OZ surely pointed out doesn’t like putting out over 3.5kw for long, beep beep flat line. I’m trying to teach energy management here like don’t use the electric rice cooker when you have lpg. Don’t use the on demand shower heater after 4pm, preaching to the choir? I had to jumper out a 110v line at the kitchen for the coffee pot so a remote to turn off the PJ just to use it. There is actually a grounded neutral line from the pole but not sure what might happen if I actually grounded the PJ and plugged in the pot to the jumpered 110v. Not testing that one.

The first night I tried to run 2 1/2 window units, batteries died about 5 am and the ats kicked in and the PJ squealed. Housemaid sleeps in there and came out screaming  like a banshee. By my calculations there should have been enough reserve. Today I did some checking in my chargers and float refloat absorb charge battery ah charge rate refloat low etc weren’t even close to correct. Both banks actually reach float levels now. Running 108v in from 18 panels 300w each 72 cells 36v. By 9:30am frontside group of 8 are giving out 121v 1.15kw and not much from the rear. By 11am both sets are cranking around 110v 1.5kw 111v .75kw amps are ranging in the 30’s most of the day. All that current and these lfp’s are cold to the touch. Purchased on Alibaba.com for a whopping $115 each and $870 shipped.

My bms system current sensors show average 16a per bank charge throughout the day. As the sun fades it jumps all over the place between 6 and 23a per bank. Each block consistent 3.303v and impedance 1.5meg. 32 lfp’s, 4 banks, 8 blocks each. Can’t get a live data bank voltage ever but history is there. I sat on this thing until the warranty was expired so there’s no returns. It acts flaky but I’m told it needs further configuration.   The software is in Chinese and the instructions in englishese. Can’t configure if I can’t read it! Getting the right disk is like pulling teeth.

Pictures to follow.

Ps. Keep you eyes on your torch!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on January 17, 2019, 02:34:12 pm
Wow that is some burn.
The Battery management current sensors may be suffering from interference. Maybe try shielding the cables from the shunt or twisting them.
I have a powerjack inverter and it does put out some hash on the line when it is running. If I leave my stereo turned on and then switch the inverter on all the lights on the amplifier come on together. I have to turn the power off then back on to get it to function normally.
I put that down to some sort of hash generated when the inverter is switched on.
I have my inverter in my garage and just ran a twin cable from the on switch and connected another switch in parallel with it to act as a remote.
It works fine, It would probably be better to change both switches to a two way switching system but for what I have a parallel remote works good.
Good luck and stay away from gas torches.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on February 27, 2019, 09:46:54 pm
Aims 6kw LF inverter power board looks pretty much like a pj. That’s some really heavy flat copper there, never have seen a transformer like it. Photos are poor sorry, I snapped them from YouTube on the tv. I commented the guy should check Oz’s pj thread so maybe he can bring that 85% efficiency rating up some, or not.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 10, 2019, 06:56:03 pm
On another subject, watching one of my favorite youtubers saw this fridge. Had know idea who made these back then.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigidaire

Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: petect on March 11, 2019, 09:44:45 am
Hi Solarnewbee
Would you mind commenting on your batteries? I will be buying LFPs (probably from China) at some point and any information you can offer would be appreciated. Which bats did you get, what do you think of them, what company did you get them from, how were they to deal with, etc.
Thanks in advance
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on March 15, 2019, 12:38:59 pm
So far they seem just fine. I’ve had a learning curve with all of this but wanted longevity of course.
I bought 32 3.2v 200ah lfp’s. My inverters 24v so 4 packs of 8. 2 packs parallel for each bank.

Bottom balancing is a must as was pointed out to me by others on this forum. I will remember to mention their names next, they were very informative and helpful.

I bought mine from a wholesaler on Alibaba.com by the name of Bruce Zheng. They accept PayPal and will ship ups and FedEx. Cost was $115 each plus around $800 shipping to Philippines. Of course American Express was helpful, who has 5 grand sitting around right?

To purchase on Alibaba you will have to open a profile. He company is Hunan Auk New Energy Co. Or contact him by email. I will send to your inbox.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: petect on March 16, 2019, 08:22:14 am
   Solarnewbee

Thank you for the information.  Best wishes for your move, and your projects.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 25, 2019, 08:51:04 pm
Great Day!

Well, maybe not completely. My PJ has a lcd meter for ac power readings and battery readings. Battery’s readings lcd is from the built in solar charge controller that I didn’t use because it’s limited to 36v. For some time now it’s been showing a low battery reading of 24.7v even though the charge controllers show battery levels were at 27.8v. This week it’s announced low battery at 21v and shuts down inverter, charge controllers show full levels and bms shows all cells at 3.42v average. I remember that cutting r14 I think fixes over volt problems but I wonder if someone knows if there might be some way to adjust this. Is it possible that the charging lcd meter is signaling the control board to shut down?

Any thoughts guys. This Pj was sold as an off grid set and not many sol either but everything else inside is the same.

Thanks
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 26, 2019, 12:40:02 pm
SN -

No personal experience with the PJ's specifically but sounds almost like oxidation (internal?) or similar creeping in and causing drop...?

If it's worse under heavier and heavier load this becomes more a possibility. While a small proportional drop is always expected, if it seems excessive or at all erratic, that would be my suspicion.

If it's low all the time, and not proportional to load, probably something else, and someone else would have to help with that.

Worth mentioning anyway... Good luck!

Steve
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 27, 2019, 10:13:37 pm
Hopefully not corrosion, I’ve had them run the AC at 80 24/7 to keep things cool and dry. When I have time I’m gonna FaceTime with the daughter and have her disconnect the internal charge  controller since it’s not being used anyway and see if that does the trick. It has read over volt before and shut it down maybe twice since start up in January. If it’s off then it can’t communicate false faults I’m guessing really guessing since PJ’s have so many unknowns.

Thanks Steve.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 08, 2020, 02:26:21 am
Some pics to add. Noticed they were missing I think from a crash last year.

Not in Any Order:

Screenshot from the BMS
The Mighty PJ and ATS that’s been quite reliable.
The Work Table, BMS and Monitoring Laptop and Battery Bank
(Uncovered)
The 2 Generic MPPT Charge Controllers
The Generally Chaotic Hastily Put Together Solar Power Board

All of this runs to and from the breaker box in the kitchen with 4-#6 Cables and a #10 ground.
The grid service is 65 amps and maybe 49 amps at best even with all appliances running.
The PJ holds the ATS true as if it were the grid and when the PJ fails or is turn of then the ATS switches to the grid. The only appliance affected is the 📺. I have a surge protector on both sides of the ATS now and everything is earthed finally to a pricey (not plated)copper rod.

Those balboas generic mppt’s are getting changed this year with Midnite Classic 150’s they are stateside part of an expansion project for this one. They are needed there more. Now if I could just get one of my “Mates” to take a vacation and do some charity work and help the daughter install the Classics and check the panels for mistakes. Got a feeling something ain’t right and it wasn’t me.

Have a good one guys!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 08, 2020, 02:43:00 am


MORE PICS:

It’s 4am, so one pic show big black box on floor. That’s a 24v 200ah lifepo4 battery pack. I bought 4 and stack the 160lb beasties inside a server cabinet with the PJ inverter on a slider with extra cables.

Last pic, our house after the volcano blocked out the free stuff.

Best Regards!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 08, 2020, 10:22:09 pm
Yet even more to add folks!

Finally got the touchscreen wrangled out. The lcd driver always was a problem getting to the factory menu. LVDS set to a 1, that’s all?? But hold down menu press power then hold down volume then don’t blink. Well then play around with Raspbian and get the darn thing to fill the whole 15.6 screen. Midnite solar has a new free application you log into and real nice so now I can quit that cloud service and have my rpi4 call me direct. I still need to figure out how to run an alignment on the digitizer screen if that’s possible on a raspberry pi.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 22, 2020, 11:04:08 pm
Pic
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on June 24, 2020, 07:38:46 pm
Hi Solar that is a seriously high tech system you have. Makes my battery monitor look very low tech.
I just a Victron Bluetooth monitor that collects my information. I check it during the day to see how the batteries are going and that is it.
I do my best to keep the batteries above 80% charge. That is about it.
Then I don't run any high loads, a toaster and a few tools are the biggest things.
I guess you are monitoring your system from halfway around the world so it is a different story.
Hope it all gets sorted soon
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 25, 2020, 11:17:16 pm
Hey Pete!

This beast is still stateside. We’re hoping to make the permanent move in the next 12 months so I’ll have to take it apart and crate everything.

I’m debating whether to lift that coil up on rubber blocks like doc has done. Fortunately the inverter is on a slider to make it easier. At least now the air gets in the center. Now it need to glue the temp sensor to the coil with thermal epoxy.

Garden haul
Adios!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on November 12, 2020, 09:24:38 am

So it seems that no matter how well you crate these batteries and how much you explain they are one of the safest on the market all they hear is that word lithium and respond with now way in hell are they going in our shipping container.

I sold them recently on eBay for what I paid for them. I can only imagine how that Acura hatchback drove with 648lbs in the rear. I’ll just put the money on some new lfp’s from the factory. They are under $95 now for 200ah. Server cabinet will go and everything will go inside it when I build a suitable workshop downstairs. For now everything is on The  wall and floor of the guest bedroom. That went over well with the boss 🤔.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on November 16, 2020, 03:53:55 pm
Seems odd doesn't it. As most things appear to be made in China these days. One wonders how the batteries get transported around the world in the first place. All the phones and computers with lithium batteries must be delivered by remote controlled submarines I guess.
Sounds like you are still having fun figuring out how to power the Phillipines on renewable energy.
Good luck
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on November 17, 2020, 09:34:52 am
Hey Pete,

There is a trend now of American manufacturers making 12v lfp’s quote “Made in the USA” but everything inside is Chinese. A 200ah 12v averages $850when a pallet full of lfp’s brings the price down to around $75 each plus box plus bms. Again American greed pushing people to seek out Chinese sellers. 1 200ah lfp on ebay $225 and up. If you ship by sea a pallet cost $350 for 1 battery or 100 batteries.

I really want to expand my storage so we can have HVAC for all bedrooms at night. I have more roof to expand pv coverage in hopes of getting something on cloudy days. Still need that windmill too. Constant 10 knots and better during typhoon season especially this season. I really want to see how that delta resister setup you drew out and I built performs. The only time there isn’t much wind is the 5 months of summer of course that’s prime solar time.

In my ignorance I had not set my charge controllers to 58v but to 57v. I had the daughter change it and suddenly they went from charging at 30-32a  to 45a+. Hoping to see my shipment show up soon so we can get to 48v inverter and midnite controllers installed. Just upgrading to 48v should make a big difference. The Midnite controllers can be monitored on the web at the new cloud service and changes made as well.

Our new goal is make a permanent move early next year so fingers crossed.

Best Regards.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on December 28, 2020, 10:48:06 am
Finally upgraded to 48V and midnite controllers. This is just a screenshot of a rainy day which is a lot better than the 24V system. Disregard SOC, a reset needs to happen.

Bahay 1 is Front side roof panels and Bahay 2 is back side roof panels. Sun tracks front facing east. Sun comes in east, north east.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on December 28, 2020, 03:30:08 pm
Looks like you have it all sorted out. I guess it is coming into winter in the Northern Hemisphere but there seem to be a dearth of people posting on the site. Maybe the election has everyone spooked.
The battery prices are pretty different, as you say they probably buy the internals from China then just put them in a case in the US. And jack the price up by 10 or more times.
Here in Oz things are changing a fair bit. Our Prime Minister managed to get the Chinese upset by saying things they did not like. They have put embargoes on our exports to China. Well most things they don't really need, they have not embargoed iron ore as they need that.
And buying things from China has become a very very slow business with Covid19 and slow postage, plus I suspect the government there have mandated a go slow on sending things to Australia.
So maybe Covid has been good, we may end up making our own things again and not being so reliant on imports.
Wish you well with the move.
Me well I prefer cold climates so Tasmania suits me well. Above 19 degrees C and I think it is too hot. No air con, just heating sometimes needed here.
Cheers
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 21, 2021, 03:31:58 am
Hey All,

I may have just figured out why there is much out there about ATS switches using SSR relays. Everything went smoothly at first but then there was a sudden drop in fan speed(the one cooling me) the grid is a lower voltage than the inverter. Then fireworks! 2 clips of mosfets are sploded. The inverter now does a flashy thing but it still initializes showing course no output. LEDs on the board are flashing and backlight on lcd screen pulses.

Question is, considering I wired my circuit just like my mechanical ATS with the home wiring wired to both outputs, are the SSRs allowing back flow or cross cut and caused the non gti inverter push back against the grid?

The other thing is, those who have had mosfets go boom, what was the other thing that went wrong as well. Some folks replaced the fets only to have the magic smoke 💨 let go again.

BTW this is a 48v 15kW Powerjack.

It also tripped a 125a battery breaker.

Thanks
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: dochubert on September 21, 2021, 11:37:19 am
Hi SN.  Good to hear from you!  Been awhile

Quote
The other thing is, those who have had mosfets go boom, what was the other thing that went wrong as well.

Don't forget to replace the lf driver board along with the fets or they might blow again.
Also, did your ATS setup run ok for awhile or did it blow the first time you tried it?
Can't admit to knowledge of whether the ssr's bleed through.  Lighthunter or one of the other guys can probably shed light there.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 21, 2021, 11:41:57 am
Doc it ran good for about 20 minutes. I will have to repair the lf board. They won’t ship parts here.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: dochubert on September 21, 2021, 03:05:31 pm

Been trying to think how to test for the 'bleed thru' of the ssr's. (Without blowing up your inverter again!)  With grid powering your house, how about unhook your inverter from the inverter ssr's and instead connect some load.  Maybe a heater.  Then use a clampon ammeter to see if there is current flow to it?

The other thought that I had was are the ssr's reliable enough to not be dropping out and re-connecting, or possibly the ats controller is doing some (very!) rapid switching back and forth.  Automatic transfer switches generally have some reliable "locking in" ability in each position to prevent erronious switching.

My limited experience with ssr's is with cheap chinese models.  I've learned to always fan cool them as they tend to fail and literally melt from overheating.  This while well within their rated loads.  More expensive models probably do better.  Don't know what you have.
Again I'm far from an expert, just throwing out some thoughts.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 21, 2021, 10:18:03 pm
Those are some good thoughts. Will give it a try. The controller is an Arduino 2560 in a din rail. The code is pretty simple using if and else statements.

Looking at a triac I wouldn’t think it would allow any voltage across without an input at the gate. I was looking at a chart for SSRs and features included and crosscut was something that caught my eye. I do have the Chinese versions at $6 each. I’m sure all extra features have been left out. How I miss digi-key.com.
(Just thought of this)
The leds on power board and the cooling fans were still working with the battery breakers turned off. I could turn off the pv breakers and see if the batteries charge. Of course it’s not supposed to be a charging inverter. Worth a try I guess.

Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on September 22, 2021, 05:32:26 pm
Hi Solar, the inverters that have blown up on me, Powerjacks 8kw. Have taken out the mosfets, the driver transistors and also some of the resistors on the Mosfet boards.
I repaired some of the mosfet boards as spares, I ended up replacing the mosfets and some LED indicators on them plus most of the resistors. I did repair one driver board, but they are not easy to work on, being so small.
I just replaced all the driver transistors on it.
My powerjack has blown up twice using my power saw. I think it is the starting current that pulled the battery voltage down too low and caused the mosfets to blow.
I have since added a 500 Farad capacitor bank in parallel with my VRLA batteries and have not had a blow up since. My tools and air compressor start much easier too.
From what I have read Lithium batteries have a lower internal resistance and should be able to supply starting currents easily.
I did read some old stuff on this site about Oztools blowing up powerjacks when the grid failed. I think it was when he was using them as chargers and the grid failed that they blew up.
Have fun
pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 23, 2021, 03:00:56 am
Only wish I could recreate the setup the 10 minutes prior to the blow up to see if there some bleed over. Looks like I’m going back to mechanical ATS. The switch over was so smooth and quiet. I took220v from the inverter to a relay, relay contacts close on 5v to pin4 to pull-up to bring pin 5 high activating the inverter SSRs. Then pin 6 goes low deactivating grid SSRs. Vice versa for switch to grid.

Checked for voltage leak across the SSRs and get just .34v. Of course thing maybe be different when you have voltage coming from both directions. Could be all coincidence and something else has occurred. The top is always off for cooling the transformer so I or someone else could have dropped something in there or the transformer has shorted. In that case I have a spare, nope, it’s 24v Damn!
What’s normal readings for a 48v transformer?

Replaced a popped transistor on the LF board. Could just make out it was a 2A and found one on a 8kw board. It’s now a donor board. I have a drawer full of irf1405 fets. By the data sheet they beefier that the ones in there and gate voltage range is the same.

I have a dandy little smd multimeter I picked up on aliexpress and it’s really nice. All the 47r were blasted leading up to the fet  gates. Everything else is within range.

Put LF board back in and it fired up and acted normally as in tried to run but got no feedback so shutdown driver and whatever other circuit on the board lights up. Flashed a few times like it was hunting driver was solid on. Of course with no fet boards in those first few rows nothing happens.

Powerjack got out of the grid tie and battery charging business. All the tracings are on the boards but the components are missing.

I could order new smd resistors (16) and wait another week or solder in some 1/4 watt. Any thoughts?

Next?
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on September 23, 2021, 08:13:27 am
Wow youve got a lot in that last post.

1/4 watt R will work fine.
Regarding ATS, ive had plenty of woes with contacts, sacrificed plenty FETs. Now its a large long throw 80Amp dual pole with a phase sync detector and havent lost a FET since. Not sure why youd want SSR type....
The switch sequence you describe sounds like a problem but maybe im misunderstanding. 

"
I took220v from the inverter to a relay, relay contacts close on 5v to pin4 to pull-up to bring pin 5 high activating the inverter SSRs. Then pin 6 goes low deactivating grid SSRs. Vice versa for switch to grid.   "

This to me reads like you are doing make before break with ssrs, unless your two sources are synced and at same voltage, fuses and every other weak point will clear.
I must be misunderstanding.

Your mechanical ATS would have the load on the pole and inverter on one throw while grid on other throw. This allows a brief moment where neither source is connected to load making it impossible for the two sources to fight.  The ssr needs similar scheme where the one in use deenergizes first then short pause before the other energizes.

Sounds like you got the repair going the right direction!

All the best!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 23, 2021, 08:44:12 pm
Maybe I should post my code. There’s absolutely no delay between relays switching. Of course the goal was to get rid of the long delay that was shutting down TVs, fridge, modem on a daily basis. Son in law works as a call center operator for T-Mobile here  and when the modem drops out he loses calls. Fiber modem takes 3-4 minutes to acquire which is weird. Something else I failed to incorporate was a battery backup for the Arduino that’s powered from the grid. If the grid does something flaky and the Arduino becomes unstable then rapid switching may occur. At the very least the inverter will get hit with a sudden rapid on/off load. Somewhere I have a MeanWell psu din rail mount that has a battery input and supplies 5&12v.




    if  digitalRead(inverteron_pin4 == HIGH);
         digitalWrite inverterssr_pin5 HIGH;   Looking now maybe this line should be second
         digitalWrite meralcossr_pin6 LOW; this line first maybe a delay 50?
     else
         digitalWrite meralcossr_pin6 HIGH

If a triac has a voltage/current on both legs nothing on the gate, will they interact? Is there a device to put in between the 2 sets of SSRs that will divide the 2? Diodes won’t do it. 🤔

There’s a circuit called “zero cross” ties to the gate and one leg of the triac. Can’t find an explanation for what this does but assumption says it prevents what happened to me with the house circuit paralleled to both sets of SSRs. My other thought was that inverter was out of phase with the grid. Never have check to see if we have a mains neutral. I will now tho.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on September 24, 2021, 05:48:09 am
There’s absolutely no delay between relays switching.

Triacs and SCRs will typically stay turned on until their A1/A2 (or A/K) current falls to zero.
So if a triac is triggered at say, 10 degrees, it will stay on until 180 degrees.
If you turn on the OTHER SSR at 12 degrees (after "removing the trigger source) of the first one, you'll have almost a complete half cycle with both devices on.

Quote
If a triac has a voltage/current on both legs nothing on the gate, will they interact?

Most triacs can also be triggered with a high dV/dt on A1/A2.

Quote
There’s a circuit called “zero cross” ties to the gate and one leg of the triac.

Zero-crossing is a technique used to try to reduce RFI/EMI and overall stress. By triggering the device at "close to" the point the waveform crosses zero,
there is minimum current, so minimum switching noise.

Again, the warning about "trigger at some point, and the device remains "on" until current reaches zero (typically the next zero-crossing)
Triggering on zero, and off at zero means your devices are always on for multiples of half-cycles.
You REALLY need to watch your triggering to keep the magic smoke inside the packages.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on September 24, 2021, 07:18:17 am
Hi S/N,   

I agree with Ross post.
I hear your concern about the transfer hiccup. Though i never had a fiber modem to worry about, A loaded refrigerant compressor will make a unfriendly noise with a huge surge if the transfer isnt done correctly.

Doing the math with 50 hz and one full cycle of time is 20 milliseconds. This is the minimum delay that should be used. Theoretically 1/2 cycle would be enough but to be on safe side... 20ms or greater.  This is similar to a double pole relay. Most ATS specs are around 50 ms.

20-50 ms shouldnt bother most equipment.

If you want to make it even smoother add a permission input to your arduino. Then connect it to the contacts of a phase align detector. (Below) Its really crude but works beautifully. The relay drops to deenergized state when there is no danger of misalignment.

The final step i would do is place a low wattage filament light bulb in series with each source (inverter and grid) in this case.
And connect your new modified ssr ATS up to each bulb source and connect a third bulb as the load. Initiate many transfers and watch the bulbs each transition for flickers or brightness changes. If all goes well you wont even loose a light bulb, if you do, at least its not your inverter :) By doing this you could tune your settings for best performance. Whatever you find as a lowest time delay, i would double it at least to give margin for unknowns like temp change behavior.

I never went that far, i got excellent performance with A JQX-62F 80A relay and the sync circuit so never went further. One more thing to consider when comparing an ssr to a relay...  A transfer switch has a terrible life. It has to bear the abuse of every possible scennario such as a 2HP water pump on startup if the transfer happens during such an event then surge current could easily exceed 100 amps. Physical contacts are better suited for these unknown extremes than an SSR. Even if subjected to this abuse they wont usually fail immediately and if sized appropriately they can be inspected with magnifier and changed before an inverter gets hurt. Just 2 cents. The SSR scheme can work i think ive just never done it and am thinking sizing is critical. Ive friends whove physically dismantled dragon brand ssrs to find components less than half the rated values so be careful of that as well. The failure mode of a mechanical relay is usually welded contacts which prevents switching but doesnt have to ruin inverter. If ANY breakdown of an SSR happens it will almost surely leave debris for the partner device to trip over kind of like an H bridge failure in your inverter, all it takes is one to fail and usually wipes out every one.
Im sure it can be done succesfully just have to design for the worst case.



Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on September 24, 2021, 07:46:34 am
The circuit above is simply a capacitor charge pump driving a rectifier bridge supplying power to a 24v relay coil. (The 250 ohm represents the coil resistance) when the sources are in sync, the relay has no power and drops out giving your transfer circuit the safe to switch signal.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 26, 2021, 12:34:08 am
Thanks Ross and LH

There not any high inductive load in the house to note.

The mechanical ATS I was using uses 2 60a rated disconnects motor switched of course. Somewhere I have a contactor rated for 80a (our service is only 60a) but I lack the circuitry to switch it like an ATS . I had always wired the ATS as the inverter being grid, lose the inverter, switch to the grid.

I suppose a simple logic circuit would do the trick for a mechanical ATS. Maybe simply energizing a 2 pole contactor from the 220v out as the inverter comes online

So Ross, your saying  it’s possible that since there was no delay during switching that the triacs were held open without time for a close cycle then grid and inverter were connected until poof?

Just found the contactor I must been using it for transfer before it’s got labels. I’ll install that and the try the light bulb test. Maybe in a few days tho. Spent all days Saturday in bed with body aches. My daughter came back from her Moderno second shot and got fever and body aches and mysteriously I do too the next day. I had the Johnson & Johnson last April with same effect, miserable all night.

Keep you apprised
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on September 26, 2021, 12:58:29 am
There not any high inductive load in the house to note.

That probably helps, but even with purely resistive loads the issue I mentioned still exists. (more later).

Quote
The mechanical ATS I was using uses 2 60a rated disconnects motor switched of course. Somewhere I have a contactor rated for 80a (our service is only 60a) but I lack the circuitry to switch it like an ATS . I had always wired the ATS as the inverter being grid, lose the inverter, switch to the grid.

I suppose a simple logic circuit would do the trick for a mechanical ATS. Maybe simply energizing a 2 pole contactor from the 220v out as the inverter comes online

When I was on-grid (I had 3-phase power too), I had two, mechanically interlocked 3-phase contactors. It was physically impossible for both to have their contacts engaged at the same time.

The grid 3-phase fed 3-phase to the big loads (mainly a big HVAC). When running on genset (which was single-phase), it would drop the grid contactor, and as soon as practical afterwards (mechanical interlock) would pull in the genset contactor. It was wired so the single phase fed all 3 phases together. The advantage with this was the aircon used phase-to-phase for its control relays, so it simply couldn't operate in this mode, but everything else did :)

Quote
So Ross, your saying  it’s possible that since there was no delay during switching that the triacs were held open without time for a close cycle then grid and inverter were connected until poof?

Hypothetically, lets say you have grid (A) and inverter (B), both waveforms exactly 50Hz, pure sine, identical voltage, free-running inverter with no phase lock.
Using src/triac as switches with simple gate triggering, lets assume for the point of argument that you're running on inverter (input B) and the triac is being (re)triggered constantly. Then, the grid is restored. You try to change from inverter to grid after waiting a few seconds to be sure it's back and stable.
Lets also assume that at the time you go to switch, the grid is 90 (electrical) degrees ahead of the inverter. You turn off the trigger to input-B and immediately trigger input-A with no delay. The B input triac will continue conducting (because it is still passing current), but now triac A will turn on (at the next zero-crossing, which is only 90 degrees away). Triac A will also trigger and you have inverter and mains connected together, but 90 degrees out of phase. (There are worse scenarios - 270 degrees is a much bigger bang)

Quote
Spent all days Saturday in bed with body aches. My daughter came back from her Moderno second shot and got fever and body aches and mysteriously I do too the next day. I had the Johnson & Johnson last April with same effect, miserable all night.

Yuck. It's taken me months, and eventually friends in high places to pull some strings, but my wife and I both got our second pfizer shots (wife on tuesday, I got mine yesterday). Been too busy to notice any side effects whatsoever beyond a slightly sore arm at the injection site.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 26, 2021, 05:04:43 am
Replaced all the mosfets and resistors and assumed LF and driver board were working properly since it operated stable solo. Switched on the first battery breaker and bang goes one mosfet. Replaced that and tried again then something went pop and mosfets on the positive side blew. Maybe I just need to order an LF board. The LF boards are reduced down to pretty small stuff and I only have so much patience with my bad neck. It was refreshing getting back to a little hot rework and using my favorite electric desoldering gun.

I have an email into Helen at powerjackinverterparts.com so I can send pictures of my boards and buy new ones. Get past this that windmill might make it up!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on September 26, 2021, 05:42:37 pm
My experience with Powerjack inverter repairs is that the driver board is often faulty.
It is best to use an oscilliscope to look at the signals that the driver board is outputting.
It does not take too much of a glitch for the mosfet to lose drive and turn into smoke.
I bought a dead 8kw powerjack that I was going to repair and have as a spare, I got it going but it made strange noises when running, like it was trying to blow up then it would recover.
Fortunately it had two transformers in it , so I bought two of the 8010 aliexpress type inverter boards and made two smaller inverters with the transformers.
They draw a lot less idling currents and run much quieter than the powerjack did.
Of course they are not grid connected, as I got rid of our grid and cut the poles down when we moved here
good luck
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on September 28, 2021, 02:00:16 am
Just sent Helen at Powerjack a chuck o money for 8 fet boards, newer version LF board with driver. Since the ac board is labeled ac charger board I may have talked her into sending an LF Baird with charging components.

Missed something on the backside of the LF brd. Not sure when that trace blew but it’s right under the driver.

Pete what components did you replace on the driver when you repaired yours?

I want to test my transformer just for good measure. I know shorts but any ideas what reading I would get on a 48v split coil ?
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on September 28, 2021, 05:26:33 pm
Hi Solar, when I repaired m driver board, I only replaced the NY, and MY transistors. Oh and the optocouplers.
They were hard enough to get at,
Me and Surface mount stuff don't get along that well that I want to change too many.
On the power board I changed all the mosfets and some of the resistors, I think the ones I changed were 220 ohm but it was a while ago.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 07, 2021, 09:00:40 pm
Well, replaced everything but the transformer and now it buzzes 3 times shows 333v on the screen momentarily and goes into alarm. I took reading on the transformer when I had it out and Al but one averaged .7 ohms and 1 was 1/3 ohms. Not knowing what it should be I can’t say if that’s bad readings.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 08, 2021, 12:35:48 am
The more I think about it, it seems the xfmr may be shorted. When it was tied to grid thru the SSRs maybe out of phase the windings heated up enough to short out. now it just won’t start against that short. I can’t get answers from Helen about ohms readings for that transformer but what I got does seem really low. Hvac compressors have some heavy copper in them and they read around 2.5-3 ohms and not quite 0 when shorted since my meters usually take a beating in that business and the leads are cheap.  Thank God I sold it and have time to sit around and fret over my broken inverter haha.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on October 08, 2021, 01:26:35 am
I wonder if something like this would help?

https://www.flippers.com/pdfs/k7205.pdf
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on October 08, 2021, 02:37:49 pm
Testing a transformer is very straight forward and easy. I would not recommend an ohm test of winding as it would require extreme accuracy to detect a shorted turn in a kw size like you have.

1. Does it smell bad or any unusual odor? If so, its bad or will fail soon.

2. If you can do a megohm insulation measurement that can flag a winding insulation fail to core material.

3. Most important test. Disconnect primary and secondary from inverter. Safety first Connect fused line lead of grid supply to one terminal of say 500w halogen lamp, the other lead of halogen lamp to one lead of transformer secondary (230v side) then connect the remaining transformer secondary lead back to the neutral grid terminal. Make sure the voltage of halogen is same as grid supply volts.

 What you are doing is powering up your transformer with the grid. The halogen will absorb the high start current when you plug it in. If the light burns brightly, the transformer is bad. If the light flashes and then glows dimly the transformer is good. Next measure the current and voltage at the secondary terminals. You should get very near mains voltage and under 1/4 amp. The primary volts should measure 25-30vAC if its a 48v inverter. Ive not looked at Ross's link maybe covers this better than ive written it. My thoughts on transformer being bad are very unlikely transformer got hurt. Normally the fets and fuses will burn very fast and never hurt a transformer that size but i suppose anything is possible. My guess is your main board is not seeing the feedback voltage so its ramping up to attain it (why you are seeing >230) and then the software times out and shuts down from no feedback to protect itself.

I didnt read much detail so if you already checked this stuff please ignore.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 08, 2021, 08:53:11 pm
Thanks guys

Probably try voltage test first. Engineer at Powerjack sent a video showing applying 120v to l1 and neutral secondary  and checking for 30vac at primary. Primary has 2  red and black so assuming red and black comprise a winding each.

I noticed when communicating with Helen at Powerjack that using simplified English gets better results. I asked for help 3 different ways before I got a answer on the transformer.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on October 08, 2021, 11:17:48 pm
Probably try voltage test first. Engineer at Powerjack sent a video showing applying 120v to l1 and neutral secondary

As mentioned, DO use a current limiting device like a decent lamp, because if there IS a shorted turn, it could get very hot, very quickly.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 09, 2021, 01:27:18 am
You’ll be happy to know the transformer is fine. Got 22v out which is kinda low but then I find out my step down transformer is only giving out 104v. Someone wound that one wrong.

Now all I get is a few pulses out from the transformer and then alarm and a brief 250v. All 8 fet boards working this time. I think Helen sent me 4 bad fets and a bad LF or driver board. Temptation wants me to put my repaired board back in and have a go but with the replacement driver. If I understand Pete correctly a bad driver will blow fets every time.


Wait and see
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 09, 2021, 01:54:29 am
You could put a resistor in series with the DC supply to the inverter.
That way you can swap the boards over and have much less chance of blowing the inverter up.
I did that when I fixed my inverter, I think I started with 20 ohms, then down to 10 and then down to 5 ohms.
If you run the boards without the transformer connected then you can use a scope ( if you have one) to look at the output of the driver board, and also what the drive to the mosfets looks like.
It is a lot safer that way , you can make sure that each mosfet is actually getting a gate drive and that all the resistors around the mosfets are good before you connect the transformer.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on October 09, 2021, 10:29:37 am
Pete has lots of great info there.

I think you have a newer powerjack than ive had experience with but some of the design would be similar.

1. If you power on and you see AC voltage at output ramp up and exceed setpoint without any smoke, you have an inverter thats 90% working. Its impossible to get that behavior if even 1 mosfet or drive is not correct.

Im not sure which version (year) yours was made but if the feedback polarity were switched somehow it could cause the behavior. Double check the connections.
It sure seems like V feedback is missing.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on October 10, 2021, 03:44:00 pm
if you remove the large capacitors snd put a 10 ohm resistor in series with the power supply,  you won't lose any mosfets during testing... its mainly the caps that blow em ..very well documented in Oz's thread..
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 10, 2021, 04:40:41 pm
Hi Noneya, oops I forgot to mention those capacitors. Glad you came in on this one. They hold a fair whack of charge and can easily do damage if unleashed on a poor mosfet.
I unsoldered mine with a very old soldering iron, it is basically just a large lump of copper on a handle. Heat it up with a gas torch and it can undo most joints. I just heated the solder up and lifted the caps out. Then re drilled the holes for the legs when I put them back in.
Cheers
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 13, 2021, 02:53:40 am
Hello Solar, well on the subject of PowerJack inverters, my 8kw 24 volt inverter blew up yesterday.
I pulled it apart and yep the AC mosfets were toast, and the Optocouplers on the driver boards were seriously discoloured.
I had a couple of spare boards and a spare driver board so fitted them.
One of the mosfets blew almost straight away. They are cheap Hy4008 mosfets, so I am hoping it was just a faulty one.
While looking carefully at the inverter something I noticed was that the negative cables to the power board were all fused together at the input terminal. They had got so hot that the pvc insulation on them had fused.
I had to actually cut the cables to remove the input terminal. The screw that held the lugs on was a phillips head type and it was totally siezed in. I ended up having to drill it out and re tap the hole.
I am now thinking that a bad connection on the 24 volt side is most likely the cause of the two blowups this inverter has suffered.
So I will repair that and also put a new allen head screw on the positive side too.
I have one of those aliexpress 5kw boards running the house at the moment, so if the powerjack is completely dead I will fit an 8010 based board to the transformer and junk the powerjack boards.
Just thought that it may be worth you checking the connections on the low voltage side while you are trying to fix your inverter
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 13, 2021, 03:50:56 am
I have a desoldering gun, just bought recently after I plugged the old 110v one into 220v doh! Anyway LH it does sound like it’s a feedback problem. I don’t remember what they call the board but it says ac charger board, lcd plugs in there and transformer connects there. A ribbon cable runs from there to the LF board and I’m sure one of those is a feedback signal. They should have given me a cable to plug in since the replacement actually has a connector on the LF board. The old board had the wires soldered in various places to 1. Obtain 12vdc for the lcd’s. 2 assuming feedback 3. Watts limiting Powerjack gave me a pic of wiring on the connector but it did nothing. Grey and white wire both looked white and took quite some doing to get them to clarify. Then the inverter did nothing, so I wired it like the old board and it came to partial life.

My inverter is a 2019 black with the stamped out lettering rather than decals. Version 10.3.1 LF board with driver board plugged in and screwed down.

I ordered a 9kw that’s within my budget and really 15kW was over-kill anyway. Helen asked me about max wattage I would be using and I told her maybe upwards of 8kw when welding and she tried to sell me a 15kW. I asked why and she said they limit the watts in software to 5.8kw due to transformer cooling. I talked her into having them raise it after describing my cooling mod. My mod is modeled after dochubert’s. I remove the clamp and raise the transformer up on rubber blocks and place a fan on top with rubber blocks and the fans on the sides. Works beautifully. Temp sensors glued to the coil for variable speed control. Cheap fan controllers from aliexpress have never failed, yet.

I’m gonna keep trying to repair the 15kW but I need an inverter now and also a break from the frustration take a step and consume you guys recommendations.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 13, 2021, 03:55:23 am
Sorry to here that Pete. I had my power boards out recently checking them and the low side connections looked good and were tight. My 1/4” impact had a fight getting them off.

Best of luck
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 19, 2021, 11:27:53 pm
New inverter on the way and hearing talk about 8010 boards. I see them on shoppee.com individually and on sunyima inverter boards. Question is, is there a way to wire an 8010 to a Powerjack power board like my repaired ones. I would have to trace out the ribbon cable to tracings.

If I remember correctly all the drains?, are tied to the heat sink (positive) and source tied to negative npn fets. That leaves the gate trigger lines and which ones are which?.  Gates all have that 47r resistor that blows when the fet does. Must be a blast of energy thru the gate to the resistor straight to the LF and driver board. Correct me if I’m wrong please. Others may learn too. Oz probably knows/knew all the ins and outs of Powerjack but I don’t think he’s messes with them anymore. Hope he’s ok he kinda disappeared from the scene.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 20, 2021, 12:57:53 am
Hi Solar, there should be lots here by Oz about the 8010  boards. I am sure he was using the powerjack mosfet boards and driving them with the 8010 chip.
Otherwise just get a complete 8010 based inverter board ( I have both 3kw and 5kw boards and am using powerjack transformers)
I think the Big Oz inverter used an 8010 chip to drive it.
Clockman would be the one to talk to about them, he does plans, boards and a book on them.
Cheers
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 25, 2021, 12:36:53 am
Hey Pete found that thread. Oztules built a board and placed a 8010 chip on a pcb board. First glance looked like a nano ha. There are boards out there that have the outputs that I see going to the gates and source or drains on the power board. I can imagine tracing out the Powerjack boards and connecting the egs-002/8010 board to it. I have a male connector to fit the ribbon cable I took off the LF board. All this when I have nothing else to do.

My Sunyima inverter board came in before my powerjack 9kw. It sold as a 190a 24 mosfet unit. I connected it to my old 15kW transformer and got 201v. They recommended a 26v coil but upon looking at adjustments in settings(it came with an lcd) I found voltage output. Ran it up to match grid. Quiet very quiet. Old PJ transformer was loud just idling but with this Sunyima attached it is completely quiet. Setting let’s you set low voltage protect and high voltage protect. That is if you get to setting fast enough before the screen whites out.

Pic of unit installed and the wiring diagram seller provides in the advertisement. Seller doesn’t respond at all so the problem with the lcd will probably not get solved.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 25, 2021, 12:58:40 am
Hi Solar, I am pretty sure that the new Big Oz inverters that Clockman sells boards and plans for use a Nano chip as the brains.
Oz mucked around a lot with them and used just the 8010 for a while but I believe he went over to a nano in the end.
If you look on the Aliexpress site they have better diagrams and photos of the Sunyima boards that you have there.
Make sure that you use the capacitor that they supply across the mains and also that the powerjack transformer has an inductor on it,.
Lighthunter and Noneyabusiness suggested using a torroidal inductor with 2 turns on each input winding of the transformer.
I have found the boards pretty quiet too,
There is more information on this thread  https://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php?topic=1364.60
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 25, 2021, 01:02:36 am
Also have a look at this thread.
This site is great for information and helpful folk who do lots of dabbling.
Hope it works well for  you
Pete
https://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php?topic=1402.msg15902;topicseen#new
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 25, 2021, 01:39:52 am
Thanks Pete, didn’t realize that thread was still going on and relevant to what I’m doing.

On another note, I rewrote my code for the ATS with a 100ms delay between grid switch off and inverter switch on. barely a blink of the lights. Don’t know if the zero cross circuit has any bearing at all but rewired so that grid and inverter are wired in that side now. Originally wired left to right now wired right to left. No fireworks this time. Unless somehow the 8010 grid ties.

The only standby switch seems to be on the lcd for the inverter. I had set up a WiFi relay app timer to turn on with a relay at sunrise til 2pm when it gets reliably cloudy around here. Now I need to find a way to switch this Sunyima inverter on/off with this WiFi relay. I’m betting someone in that thread you sent me to knows how.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 25, 2021, 06:32:32 pm
Good to see that you are getting it happening.
this site has as much info on those boards that I have been able to find
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33035311978.html
cheers
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on October 27, 2021, 08:11:29 am
Here's my code for the ATS. Not sure I even need an else statement, still learning.

const int INVERTERON_pin = 4;
const int INVERTERSSR_pin = 5;
const int MERALCOSSR_pin = 6;
 
void setup() {
  // put your setup code here, to run once:

pinMode(INVERTERON_pin, INPUT);
pinMode(INVERTERSSR_pin, OUTPUT);
pinMode(MERALCOSSR_pin, OUTPUT);

digitalWrite(INVERTERSSR_pin, LOW);
delay(50);
digitalWrite(MERALCOSSR_pin, HIGH);


}
void loop() {
 
  if (digitalRead(INVERTERON_pin) == HIGH) {
    digitalWrite(MERALCOSSR_pin, LOW);
    delay(50);
    digitalWrite(INVERTERSSR_pin, HIGH);
       
  }
    else  {
     digitalWrite(MERALCOSSR_pin, HIGH);
     delay(100);
    }


if (digitalRead(INVERTERON_pin) == LOW) {
    digitalWrite(INVERTERSSR_pin, LOW);
    delay(50);
    digitalWrite(MERALCOSSR_pin, HIGH);
      }
     
}
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on October 28, 2021, 01:33:45 am
 Hi Solar, I am not up on coding much, have only done a little bit with arduino once.
I did read somewhere that someone suggested using relays.
The thing with using relays or contactors is to make sure that they cannot possibly be on together at the same time.
In contactors used on Star/Delta motor starters there is usually a mechanical interlock as well as the usual electrical interlocks via the auxillary contacts, to prevent both contactors coming in together.
I figure your system should work fine as you said that you have added a time delay. The only time there could be a lot of sparks is if one of the SSR's goes short circuit.
The result would most likely be another fried inverter.
Also you have to make sure that there is no way that you would feed power back into the grid if the grid went down. Such as when someone is working on the transmission lines.
Cheers
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on November 29, 2021, 10:02:37 pm
I see what your saying Pete about safety interlock. My coding skills are limited as well. I think I have a soft interlock. That’s why if the arduino reboots the code sets grid high and inverter low first. When the arduino loses power I Lose power as well. All pins go low.

On another note, I finally raised my windmill. Rented 8 sections of scaffolding and pulled an 1 1/2” galv pipe 40’ in the air. The dual gen was design sit atop a pipe. I shorted the 3 phase wires for both generators so it wouldn’t move until I was finished. Then I welded it to the steel structure of our second floor. I had fitted 8’ of 1 1/4” crimped and welded down and crammed inside both Sections of pipe to give the weld a solid base for strength. I’m not an expert welder but my booger weld never fail haha. I ran 2 3 conductor cables to the solar room and connect to some high amp 3 phase rectifiers and connected the dc in series for 48v out. At first I was getting volts up to as much as 90v. Then the bearings failed from sitting too long in storage. There is a rumbling noise that passes down the pipe and throughout the whole second floor. Next month I will bring it down and replace the bearings. The guy with scaffolding is gone for Christmas holidays. $67 rental assembled and disassembled doesn’t seem like a Philippines price but no choice.

I’ll tell something, when your 40’ up at my age and Deminished strength you tend to wrap yourself tightly with rope to the scaffolding and pray every time the wind kicks up nothing tips over. Everything tingles when you down. Going back down scares the crap out of me.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: bj on November 30, 2021, 03:36:33 am
   Gives me tingles just looking at the pictures.
Be safe
BJ
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on November 30, 2021, 02:55:51 pm
Yep , I have to get up trees at times to trim branches that are dangerous or shading my panels. I am the same, ropes and ladders, still it seems that the older we get the higher things seem.
Is there no way to hinge the towers so that you can lower the generators down when you need to work on them.
Even a hinge in the centre would make life a lot easier, if you had a steel cable attached to the top and a winch to raise and lower them.
Sounds like the bearings never had enough grease in them, if they dried out and died from storage.
Like BJ says be safe and good luck
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: dochubert on November 30, 2021, 04:32:53 pm
Wow!  Not just tingles!  Scares the crap out of me just looking at your pictures! 
You are definitely braver than me!  I don't think you could have gotten me to the top of that scaffold even when I was 20 years younger!  Make that 40 years younger!

(I knew there was another reason I never put up my windmills!)

And now you have to do it again....  Please be extra careful!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on December 04, 2021, 10:22:39 pm
Well, it happened, my 8010 based board $#!+ the bed. All the fets on the + battery side and some transistors and small caps between are blown. Time to order fets and figure out what those othe transistors and caps are. Anyone with a sunyima similar that might know.

I have a boost converter on the windmill and all the caps burst on it at the same time. It’s installed between the windmill and the midnite charge controller. Coincidence I guess.

Heat sink was very hot to the touch even tho I had a fan on it. Maybe it just overheated.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 05, 2021, 04:06:17 pm
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic_mobile.php?FID=4&TID=11169

I'm not sure what you have done via mods, but following " poidas " advice make these almost bulletproof... mosfet destruction usually the lm324 " problem " its too fast and causes issues with " tight " trasnformers like toroidals...
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on December 06, 2021, 04:45:47 pm
Hi Noneya. It seems that the 8010 boards have a lot of differences. I just received 4 as spares, I removed the 393 chip as per poidas post that you shared.
I removed R4, there was no C19 there but I shorted the pads where it was.
Previously I used Oz's plan of removing the 393 and connecting pin 1 to 4 and 7 to 8.
Seems easier to do poidas method.
I am wondering where the transorbs go on the mosfet drivers, poidas post shows photos of the bottom of a board but I don't know if that is is own design board or a generic chinese mosfet board.
Do you know where the transorbs go, I know that they connect to the gates of the driver transistors but not sure where they go after that. Is i to ground plane or somewhere else.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on December 06, 2021, 05:46:57 pm
Hi Solar! Sorry to hear your 8010 inverter failed. If two items failed at same time i doubt its a coincidence. Not impossible but seems unlikely. Charge controllers are rarely isolated. Maybe i could say never but then id be wrong somewhere.:)

The things i know of that will destroy them.

1)  what noneya said.

2)  toroid and choke improper tuning (75 or 90 hz ideal) 1.5 times run freq, avoiding resonance.

3) too much power. My 5500W board was running 5kw today intermittently but it did not do 7500. Thats just plain foolish, not the inverters fault  ::) of course properly functioning and properly set overload should mitigate this but the overall design of the application should prevent this from ever being needed.

4) direct connect output to mains, thatll getr every time. Ive never had issue once i went to 80A dpdt long throw contactor.

5) create a high frequency arc on the DC supply. Via bad connection or otherwise.

Ive only had failures with reason 4 and 3 others may be able to add to this list.

All the best dont give up! Solar equipment can run as reliable as an old refrigerator, i must admit a turbine adds a twist, kinda like a wildcat with your tame ones :)

Lighthunter


Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 07, 2021, 03:30:21 am
the TVS diodes go directly across the gate and souce of at least 1 mosfet per bank, and I've had 9+ KW through mine, beefed up the fan big time though... If the original thermistor is attached on the front heatsink it should shut down via overtemp before destruction... should...  once you get it down pat, they are REALLY tough...

AU $264.69  8%OFF | 24V 5600W 36V 8600W 48V 12000W 60V 72V 96V 19000W Foot Power Pure Sine Wave Power Frequency Inverter Circuit Board A Main Board

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKnHzSI

this is the one I use....

AU $1.22 | 20Pcs/Lot Non-Polar P6KE TVS Diode DO-15 P6KE6.8CA~P6KE440CA P6KE12CA P6KE33CA 47CA 56CA 250CA Transient Voltage Suppressor

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMvJgx8

this the TVS diodes I use...15v Bi-Directional ones...

I just cleaned up the wiring on my system over the last few days, and accidentally shorted the 48v side ( didn't read something right). blew main dc breakers, but no faults with inverter...
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on December 07, 2021, 03:16:00 pm
Thanks Noneya, that is what I needed to know.
Seems that the TVS diodes are really cheap on aliexpress. Thanks for the link.
Solar newbee, good luck with the repair.
Make sure that you follow the advice on modifiying the 8010 board.
I used a very sharp pair of snips to cut the legs off the 393 chip. Then just used a soldering iron and some solder braid to clean up afterwards.
I laid my soldering iron across R4 until it got hot enough then used a small screwdriver to push it off the pad.
Then bridged where C19 is.
So far my inverter is running great.
I don't have any grid connection though. Lighhunters idea of a contactor is probably the best, it makes sure that there is no possibility of grid connecting to the inverter output. Also gives a very short time delay between the two.
Hope you get it sorted, keep us informed of what you find while fixing it. It is good to know what the likely suspects are when things go bang.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: dochubert on December 07, 2021, 03:55:48 pm

Hi guys,
I've been watching this conversation with interest as I tried an 8010 48v board awhile back, then put it aside.  Had not done any of the mods you are discussing here.  Mine worked beautifully until I loaded it above 2500w at which point it seemed to lose output voltage regulation, frying some led bulbs and a surge protector (didn't blow up tho) 
I was just looking at the link Noneya posted for his, which brought up this question;
Should I be using a 60v model or a 48v model?
My lifepo4 batteries normally stay between 51 and 56v.  The link says this regarding transformers:

Quote
48V battery power supply with AC 220V to AC output 24-28V transformer. Power 12000W

60V battery power supply with AC 220V ro AC output 29-34V transformer. Power 15000W

My transformers are 32v/230v powerjack toroids.  Link doesn't appear to give the battery voltage ranges of the 48v or 60v versions.  The link specifically mentions using a 32v transformer on a 48v inverter, apparently warning about lack of voltage regulation.

Quote
Please be sure to pay attention to the buyer: in the above battery power supply voltage. If the transformer is not matched (such as the normal 48 volt battery power supply to use AC 220 rpm AC output 24-28V transformer. As a result, you used AC 220 rpm AC output 32V transformer) In this way, the inverter will have an output voltage of 220V, which is not regulated. Therefore, it is important to select the voltage parameter of the transformer.

  Sounds like the 60v version would be a better choice for my transformers, assuming it would handle 51-56v, which seems doubtful.  Maybe I should just stay with the 48v version and do Poida's mods.  What do you think?
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 07, 2021, 04:53:05 pm
using the 60v should be fine, they have a adjustable " low " voltage disconnect,  which can be bypassed easily.. alternatively,  if accessible,  you can add turns to the " 240v "side of the transformer... i just reduced the output voltage to 230v on mine as the transformer is not easily modified,  which unless extremely loaded at night the voltage doesn't move ( even then has caused me no issues , bit your mileage may vary) .. considering the mains voltage changes quite dramatically normally,  most appliances dont mimd..
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 07, 2021, 04:55:27 pm
just to clarify,  the eg8010 doesn't have as good dynamic range as the PJ's ... why the difference...
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on December 11, 2021, 10:31:14 pm
I am now sure it got connected to the grid. Not that I was trying. Seems my ATS allow it. So Installed my new 9kw PJ and it died a week later. Seemed to be a cooling problem. They only put in 1 48v fan so I installed 3 speed controlled fans one on the power board and two on the transformer. I think the 48v source on the LF board is unreliable so the fans quit. Another point could be it was in battery charging mode which causes 1kw increase during use and when the sun came up the 60 amps coming in caused some trouble but I don’t really know how a PJ charger works. Anyway PJ is sending free replacement  parts.

I replaced the ATS with a contractor activated by the inverter. It’s one I used before successfully. I have a brand new mechanical ATS 100a I may use next.

PJ LF boards fry when the mosfets fry. What about 8010 board?, anything like that the same? Should I order a new one? Mine has 2 rows of pins and a lcd screen.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 11, 2021, 11:58:12 pm
as stated, anything connects to the grid, it will die.. even the eg8010... Oz gave up on the grid charge " feature " early on... the change in zero cross is enough to blow anything, and they don't do it smoothly..

may i suggest one of these, for charging....

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EXTRA10-OFF-ROSSI-Stick-Welder-200-Amp-Inverter-Welding-Machine-MMA-/143497597275?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0

at most 48v charging requires a turn or 2 added to the internal " transformer " and it becomes a current controlled battery charger.. very efficient etc...
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on December 12, 2021, 07:31:07 am
"PJ LF boards fry when the mosfets fry. What about 8010 board?, anything like that the same? Should I order a new one? Mine has 2 rows of pins and a lcd screen."

To repair the 8010 board, the power section repair is similar to PJ, replace all fets, measure and or replace all resistors, check inspect caps. Repair any other damage as necessary. The control board is where its different. For $5 you just unplug, toss the old one and plug in the new one. Of course dont forget any changes you need... x393, 60hz 50hz etc.

"just to clarify,  the eg8010 doesn't have as good dynamic range as the PJ's ... why the difference..."

Its because by default the egs002/8010 has selected unipolar switching.  The 8010 has the ability to output bipolar switching if you prefer. I cant recommend it. For one, the voltage feedback on the egs002 board is different so you would need to change your circuit to allow it. For two, im pretty sure the reliability be reduced to the PJ, you would experience unexplained failures as many have had with PJ. The bipolar switching scheme is a bit more stressful to the fets. Why the toroid is noisier and why the idle current is higher. This stress is worst at no load idle.

For anyone reading this and thinking about automatic transfering your home between grid and your inverter. The solution is simple but it can be hard and expensive to get there.

#1 choose a large double pole double throw contactor with at least a 1.5mm point gap 1/16" I use JQX-62F 80A

#2 use some means of detecting sync of the two sources and trigger the transfer only when they match. Below is a photo of circuit ive used with no issues.

Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on December 12, 2021, 07:41:04 am
The phase align circuit is simply monitoring two ac sources. When the phase relationship between the two sources are zero there is no output voltage to drive the relay coil and it drops the relay out. Signaling its ok to transfer.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: dochubert on December 12, 2021, 03:39:21 pm
I think the 48v source on the LF board is unreliable so the fans quit.

If there was a fan connected to the "Fan" connector on the pj control board, it likely was a 12v fan.  To my knowledge, all "Fan" connection points on pj controllers newer than v8 are 12v regardless of voltage of inverter.  If your fans were not connected to the "Fan" connection, then they were probably 48v fans and connected to the main 48v terminals.  Sometimes pj does it with 48v fans and sometimes they use 12v fans.  No consistency.  Independent fan controls are always the better choice with pj inverters, whatever fans you choose.  And you are right, one fan isn't enough.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 12, 2021, 04:35:00 pm
I use one of these to cool the mosfet board... with a diy arduino temperature controlled circuit... they MOVE some air, but never had it maxed, and ive set it to speed up at 37°c and max out at 55°c...

AU $25.21  10%OFF | for delta PFC1212DE PFB1212UHE 120*120*38 mm 12038 1238 12CM DC 12V 4.80A 5500 RPM 252.85 CFM server inverter cooling fan
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m02dp0w

the beauty is they interface directly with 5v logic on their pwm line, so no complex step up/down logic to worry about...


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Automatic-Temperature-Control-CPU-Fan-Speed-DC-Controller-12V-PWM-PC-Board-IVN9-/403248193774?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0

you could try something like this, I bought two to test and never got around to it... hope this helps
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: noneyabussiness on December 12, 2021, 06:40:39 pm
oh and if you want a 12v power supply for your fans, thats independent of everything,  and will handle the fan loads / 48v dc + , highly recommend one of these, for the price I brought two, one for spare, but never needed...

AU $4.69  49%OFF | Converters Electric Buck voltage Converter DC36V/48V/60V/72V To 12V DC Module Car Power Supply Voltage For Electric Vehicle
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq9EVkK

it uses a sepic topology, very efficient etc... again, hope this helps
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: dochubert on December 13, 2021, 12:09:23 pm
oh and if you want a 12v power supply for your fans, thats independent of everything,  and will handle the fan loads / 48v dc + , highly recommend one of these

Those power supplies are great!  I've had several in use for years for various applications and never had one fail yet!  Some run fans and others power controls/indicators and always a good steady output.  There is a 15a version available but the regular 10a version works for most of my needs.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on December 29, 2021, 11:11:12 pm

Got my PJ going again thanks to Helen at PJ-ville. Free part are great until FedEx adds on a processing fee. Put all my temp controlled fans back on and direct connected to the battery connectors. I need to add a relay to shut them down when the inverter shuts down otherwise they suck energy from 2am-ish to 8am. I had a WiFi switch tied to the old 15kw to turn off before sunrise and back on when the sun peeks over the houses. Also removed off that annoying buzzer and tied in a jumbo pilot light in the hallway.

I’m back to using the old mechanical ATS, the one with 2 disconnect breakers inside. One is physically locked out when the other is made. The experiment is over. I ordered a new one but the first screw terminal I turn broke off so it’s going back. Cheap Chinese junk at $20. Looks like I’ll have to pay double that to get a better quality to have a spare.

I’m almost finished rebuilding the sunyima inverter. Took long enough for the parts to come in. Those mosfets are not cheap, around $47 for 30 and that was after 2 attempts failed because they sent TO220 fets not the TO247 as advertised. Still waiting on the 100uf 25v electro caps. Can’t believe I didn’t have some around. Order 50 to use 4 geez. Ordered 2 1/2 weeks ago and they are still down in Manila.

Turns out that the egs board I have with double row of pins makes no difference. All the pins are connected front to back so I order 2 new ones with the lcd. Hopefully my programmer lcd still work. There is a seller on AliExpress coming out with the same inverter type with and lcd that’s more comprehensive and looks like the egs board is on the lcd. 3”x4” lcd portrait style. Tried to buy one but their not ready.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on December 30, 2021, 03:25:06 am
I don't mean to be condescending, but you need to make a choice.
Do you want a reliable, robust, properly-designed and built system, or do you want a cheap-as-chips, unreliable, probably knocked-off-and-cheapened thing?

I have lived 100% offgrid now for almost 20 years.
I run two companies, a house with my family, two workshops, somewhere in the order of 230 computers that run 24/7, and all the things I'd consider "essential" for our existence. Water pumps so we have water. Effluent treatment. Light for nights, power and phones and all those things.

I didn't, and wouldn't, trust all my SENSITIVE, EXPENSIVE equipment on some unknown, random, "built to the lowest possible price, and to hell with the consequences" inverter.

My first inverter (which lasted 16 years, 24/7) was expensive, but back then a *REAL* 5kW 100% dutycycle inverter actually cost money.
My replacement which is a little higher capacity and a LOT more in terms of features, cost in the order of $7K AUD.

If you NEED it, if you RELY on it, if the "opportunity cost" of not having power is significant, or the cost of however many expensive bits of equipment being blown up by something the inverter does, then the answer is simple... DON'T buy purely on price. The cheapest inverters cost WAAAAY too much. At least, in my opinion they do.

I've got instruments that cost upwards of $30K to replace, buggered if I'm going to "plug it in and hope" that my $200 inverter will be ok!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: lighthunter on January 01, 2022, 08:32:50 am
Yeah Ross but your life is probably boring, the rest of us have drama and disaster sacrifices for entertainment! HA!

I do agree with you, when i started in cnc service 20 years ago, saving money on a cheaper repair decision was valued and valuable. We live in a different world today, downtime is not tolerable in most cases and can easily be more expensive than installing the more expensive choocher.  Everybody has their own unique environment with different influences. It amazes me how many folks on here do so well hooking up this equipment successfully with little experience beforehand. Shucks, a lot of what i know came from making the mistakes and
blowing up some victim when i was teenage years. Luckily, ive learned not to take risks and depend on the Lord to avoid trouble. Maybe the turning point was when i was in high school chemistry, done with my project my buddy moaning about no ideas, i suggested we make some hydrogen. All we need is a diode and an outlet an some water. Things went well until i got impatient waiting for the bubbles, so i found some salt to make the water a bit more conductive. Boy did it ever improve conductivity, immediately boiling yellow gas (deadly chlorine) came billowing out of that beaker so fast. Somehow the color was enough to scare me to oblivion and shut down, nobody got hurt but the night of the exhibit someone asked my buddy if that was really hydrogen in his plastic bag (1 quart) probably not full. So he lights it an the sound was deafening bang! Again nobody got hurt but some valuable lessons.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on January 01, 2022, 02:01:14 pm
Yeah Ross but your life is probably boring, the rest of us have drama and disaster sacrifices for entertainment! HA!

I have so much to do that "boring" is good. You remember those days during school holidays when you'd say "I'm bored, what can I dooooo?"
I haven't uttered that for over 40 years!

Quote
We live in a different world today

Indeed we do, and not all for the better sadly.


Quote
Maybe the turning point was when i was in high school chemistry
...
nobody got hurt but some valuable lessons.

Absolutely. More excitement than I want for now although I will admit to having experienced more than enough of those "exciting" moments over the years. Mostly nobody too badly hurt (most of the time me!). As you say, lessons to learn everywhere, if you look :)
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on January 12, 2022, 04:09:23 am
Firstly I didn’t know what I was doing 5 years ago when I found this forum and Oz, who everyone looks up as “THE guy”, starts a thread about guess who bought a powerjack. I had just bought a powerjack after someone had mentioned LF pure sine wave was the way to go felt relieved someone who appeared intelligent blessed the inverter. That inverter running on an ATS switch (double disconnect motorized lockout type) worked for 3 years straight with little trouble barring cleaning dust out for airflow.

I finally retire and find I have a modem that’s important to my son-in-law’s call center and try a SSR ATS not know that would totally screw up the new 15kw 48v upgrade PJ. That PJ worked flawlessly for about a year til I screwed it up not because it is a “cheap” solution. Some of us are on low budgets. Especially when we sink an ass of money into lfp’s and solar panels.

That cheap Sunyima inverter worked a champ on the 15kw coil until it got tied to the grid. Again my mistake not a cheap inverter. Whenever an inverter blow up on my setup the house just switches to grid not affecting any sensitive gear. Surge protected takes a permanent hit tho.

I’m back to the old style ATS and my “cheap” PJ inverter but all is well. If I had spent 1000’s on an inverter I would have blown that up too. There are solid state ATS out there but industrial Scale and mostly 3 phase. I should have done a YouTube video. It would have been a first and maybe someone out there make one work correctly.

Yess Ross you ruffled my feathers but so what this forum 95% dead anyway. I’m thankful at least to those who pay attention to me and genuinely try to help like Pete nonya LH doc sometimes others.

Happy new year to all make this greater than last.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: rossw on January 12, 2022, 05:21:20 am
Yess Ross you ruffled my feathers

I'm sorry, that was never my intention. I'm not even sure what I said to have had that effect.
Anyhow, onwards and upwards. Collect those photons, pump those electrons, be happy.
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on January 12, 2022, 02:52:22 pm
Hi Solar, I had a thought, rather than run one giant inverter, it may be better to split the loads and run a couple or more smaller inverters.
It seems that once we have just one big inverter and it blows up then things get complicated.
If you were to say use one inverter for lighting, and two for power, ( split the power outlets in the house over two or more circuits) then redundancy allows for quick swaps when needed.
I am having a good run so far with the 8010 based aliexpress boards. I have three now. One with a rewound powerjack transformer form an 8kw powerjack and two with transformers from an 8kw powerjack that had two transformers.
So far they are working well, nice clean sinewaves and no failures.
Setting them up requires a variable power supply to set low voltage cutouts , high voltage cutouts and overload but that is not too hard.
Then just following Ozs stuff on getting rid of the chip off the 8010 board. After that all seems good.
I hope that your retirement goes well and that the system you have set up runs for many trouble free years.
Oh , I don't have grid power so there are no problems with changeover here.
Glad you got yours sorted
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on May 28, 2022, 05:28:50 am
Howdy Pete,

I finally got around to repairing my AliExpress special, inverter. Changed the egs board and all the resistors and diodes. Also replaced the small caps and tip41/42 transistors that blew. I tried powering up with a variable power supply but no joy. It goes into cc mode and pulls the voltage down to 2 volts from 48. There is a mosfet  on the end near the egs marked 12v on the board irf640n. Another maybe diode mur860g on the board u860g on the device.

Does the transformer have to be attached for it to fire up? I remember you saying there was a way to do it with a resistor or something but I can’t find it. Pics below. 4 views since none of these boards are ever completely the same.

Cheerio!
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on May 28, 2022, 05:48:04 pm
HI Solar, I used Oz's ideas when repairing my inverter boards.
It requires that  you take out the big capacitors in the centre of the heatsinks. This reduces the inrush current and prevents the caps from supplying power to the mosfets and blowing more up
Then use a resistor in the supply line to limit the current (in case there is a shorted mosfet).
It will need a transformer connected as there is a feedback loop there that needs to see a return.
Good luck
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on May 29, 2022, 03:55:09 am
Hi Solar from memory, I started with a 20 watt 10 ohm resistor in series with the power supply to my board, then after I checked the current drain and gate drives of the mosfets I reduced it to 10 ohm then to 5 ohm.
When the board still ran with that I connected the supply directly to the board.
As I said the big capacitors need to be removed or they store enough power to blow mosfets if there is still a problem.
Usually when mosfets blow they take out their driver transistors and sometimes resistors too.
Make sure that they are all getting a clean gate drive when you fire it up.
If it all runs good then replace the caps
pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 03, 2022, 01:28:52 am
Found that a IRF640 fet was shorted. Removed it and the current went to zero. Have new ones on order. Extras in case something goes wrong again. The diode mur680g seemed ok. I have a feeling it will come to life when a fresh fet  is installed. Some people power up using an incandescent light bulb to charge the caps slowly. Hard to find in a country that outlawed incandescent bulb sales and now florescent bulbs too.

On another subject I am replacing 1 bank of lfp’s with 4. 200ah VRLA batteries. The lfp’s are running on 15 pieces and appear to be giving out about 2/3 ah they used to. I replaced a cell and the new cell immediately went bad and bloated. I bought 4 new and so 1 out of 4 was bad and I installed another. That one goes bad. I call the factory. They tell me that since my internal resistance of the old batteries is so far apart from the new battery that this is what happens. Stop and don’t put anymore. It’s like changing tires on a dual tire truck if you don’t change both tires the new one will fail early. Surprisingly the bank charges up to 57.8 volts then settles to 54.3 ish most days. Unknown to me the breaker to the good bank had tripped and wasn’t being charged. I was getting 9 hours out of the bad bank. These are 200ah batts. Just weird stuff.

Question, I am short on space, can I stack these VRLA batts 2 together?
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: Pete on June 03, 2022, 03:12:21 am
Hi Solar not sure what you mean by " can I stack the VRLA batteries  2 together, if you mean parallel two banks then sure.
It is not the greatest practice but from what I read up to 4 banks is not too bad to parallel.
I have had heaps of parallel banks of Flooded batteries in the past, no real problems.
As long as a cell doesn't short out then all is good. And as long as the battery banks are similar age and capacity.
Hope it all goes good with the repairs when the parts turn up.
Pete
Title: Re: y Philippines Retirement Solar Off Grid System
Post by: solarnewbee on June 04, 2022, 02:28:40 am
I meant to say put one battery on top of the other. They are sealed so no checking levels.

On the other subject, I have a short across the battery connections on this inverter board. Thought it might be the caps or the mosfet over by the egs board but not so. I reckon I was sold at least 1 bad hy4008. Jumped the gun and didn’t get out the tester before putting them in. I am officially trashing this board because I would have to desolder every single fet. No thanks.

Thanks for your help tho. Adios!