guess who bought a power jack inverter

[oztules]

In the W7 clone, it is pins 1 and 20 with a 20k pot that controls current from a front panel trimmer.

I tried this on an old PJ, to no avail. It uses pin 20  ( on the wire header) as an inverter on led drive signal, and pin 1 is gnd on both.

Pin 2 on the main chip seems to be involved somewhere, and R23 grounds that ... maybe to set current max. not sure at all. It makes sense that there is a resistor somewhere that controls the current max, and thats the one I would play with first... but I'm not that interested in the PJ boards any more, and you seem to have the skills to take this further.

Let others know how you get on with it.

Be careful to turn inverter off first before unplugging grid, or the back elf in the torrioid may kill the fets.


...........oztules

[off the wall]

Has anyone got the driver board to drive multiple power boards yet?

Best wishes

OTW

[UFA.Solar]

Hi Oz
Thanks for the tip according W7's .
I have not checked that in my W7 one , only used the digi-switches which are applied.
At this time I was not shure if all the stuff would work as estimated and planed.
I will continue to see if it is possible to use the LF-system in the same way.
Loader & inverter in my running system ..... will take some time......
Your recomendation about inverter use !!! ..... I have applied in my system.

New edit of the next part: It is not correct  written !!!! written on date 10.July 2016
1: During use of the inverter at night houres,
 the relay "8" in shema "Steuerung01" (thread before) comes "on"
!! 2 minutes after the inverter is switched "on" by relais"4" but no 220V applied to the inverter !!!
 
2: At the morning relais "8" is cut "off" 2 minutes before relais"4"  switiching the inverter completely
"off" no 220V applied to the W7 !!!

3: At about 6 o'clock in the morning !! before sunraise !! (calculated out of my location and time in the year)  220V is applied to the !now! loadermod inverter W7 ;
waiting in this stage until there is enought energie ,
starting sending more then 500W into the main grid.
That's tue increase my own use off solar enrgie , as I described in my first thread.
sorry for the wrong description yesterday.
......UFA.Solar
picts from the W7 clone I have made

[oztules]

As long as you turn inverter switch to off before releasing the mains, there will be no problem.
If the mains fails for whatever reason while it is battery charging... look out!

It is happy to start in any condition for start charge, as it soft changes to mains frequency, it is the cut off that causes problems with toroids.

If you can track down the stuff that causes the current max condition, you will be able to do what you wish.

Your W7 is very different than mine in the daughter board area, but the pin out from the header will probably be the same... it it is, there will be a 20k pot between 1 and 20pins for current I expect.... but PJ only uses these pins for gnd and invert led on from the looks of it.


...............oztules

[Pete]

Hi Oz just wondering if it is possible to use some sort of Transorb or Crowbar circuit to protect the inverter when disconnecting the mains. Not sure about where you are but the power goes off plenty of times on the slightly larger island of Tasmania. I don't have a problem as I supply my own power, but then what happens when a generator is being run to charge batteries with a W7 or a Powerjack? If the gene runs out of fuel dose the inverter die?
On a slightly different issue, my exciter winding in my generator burnt out and I have since rewound the stator. As the exciter winding shorted out it took out the regulator. I know that regulators are cheap but I am sick of buying stuff that is epoxied  so as to make it non repairable. The question is is the regulator that you designed for car alternators uprateable to use on a larger generator. My exciter winding puts out around 110 volts, the rotor needs only about 18 volts on no load. Hope all is well on your island
Pete

[oztules]

Even though the W7 and pj are virtually identical, the W7 will handle the shut down without a problem.. the pj won't.
Only because of the torroid. If you had a ballast in there then it would be fine... probably an 10mh choke would do it... but it would be very big for high power units. this would limit the back emf to sustainable amounts.

The alt regs are very cheap, and thats what I would consider, but yes, the same regulator would be able to do the same thing with different components.
They both perform the same task.


............oztules

[UFA.Solar]

Hi Oz
I once read through my last post 467 ......
The description is not correct ..... so I edit the wrong part....
hope now body has real taken care about und and is duing some misstake....

On my W7 clone there is a flatcable going to the frontpanel .
There are sitting all LED's , the 4 step switch and the on switch ( two position's)
The explanation for the different steps of the smale 9 pos. is very different to the LF......
 see PICT8862
There is no pot. for current control ; these dip-sw are sitting on the side where the 24V is
connected. There is also a connector( telefon like Rj45) for an external control panel .
Possibly use in caravaning applications. I use this in my system for relais and controll's
So at first I have to take "of" my productive system and find the differences in the 1 to 20 post
connector and thiere use.

Now to the 1 to 20 pin connector on LF :
pin 1 -> black -> gnd
pin 2 -> red -> positiv
pin11 -> inverter on sw black marked
pin12-> middle pos of the two position switch
pin13-> on inverter safe sw
pin14-> to Alarm LED driver
pin15->code 1 of 9 pos. sw  in addition 17.3k to gnd  !! sw is BCD-coded
pin16->code 2 of 9 pos. sw            "         "
pin17->code 4 of 9 pos. sw            "         "
pin18->code 8 of 9 pos. sw            "         "
pin19->to LED driver BTY on
pin20->to to LED driver INV on
the center point of the 9 pos sw is going to gnd
all of that is on the opposite side of the 24V input and connected via flat cable
so far my findings on LF ; my some body compare and correct me if wrong........
system is a LF5000 power jack build 2016
I apreciate very much Your assistence and must say You are !! great !!
UFA.Solar

[UFA.Solar]

sorry Oz
I forgot the PICT8862
UFA.Solar

[oztules]

if you look at this story, you will see the powerstar type I had.

http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,780.0.html

There is  a pic that shows the trim pot at the top of the board with the leds.. your unit is much later from the looks of it..

That thing used huge idle currents until I put a torroid in it.


............oztules

[UFA.Solar]

Hi every one , hi Oz
I have put some block-diagram together , just to understand the system.
I am not sure this diagram is ok ??
Did not disassembly my system yet.
If there is a current sense resistor in the low voltage part , what is the value ??
and where are the lines coming up to the main PCB at which connector ??
Otherwise how the MPU ( via ADC and amplifier) get the info for the
load control in the charge stage ??
Or also in inverter run ??
?? is the inverter only under  voltage output control ??

The W7 worked as a CC-CV-time loader ( constant current first step constant voltage
second step and last but not leased float stage ) The means after the battery voltage
sink to a certain value it kicks in for a new short cycle .
You can see in PICT BMS_29_12_15_plot attached
The loader in the LF lock different , but has an CC & CV component as far as I found out.
Please check my block-diagram to my questions.
UFA.Solar
attached : blockdiagram01

[oztules]

loc of this part.... there is no such part.

Unless your doing cycle by cycle protection of the fets there is little point in trying to use a low value resistor in the DC side to get current readings... what would you use them for unless your doing cycle by cycle  protection of fets that can in theory stand 3000amps instantaneous loads  ( 600A per 4110 fet).

What goes up must come down, so what goes in must come out..

They measure the AC current via a CT next to the terminal inputs of  the AC..  and the voltage.....from that they can find the wattage going into the unit/s transformer, and so the DC side approximation is there as well.

By changing the pulse width of the fets they can use the voltage and the ac wattage to get a fair picture of charge current i suspect. The synchnonous rectification will control the current and voltage in the batts.

If they define a AC wattage  as a ballpark they can supply the battery with wattage to match... and it knows the voltage... so set pulse width accordingly. The only feedback it needs is DC volts and AC watts..... my best guess with what they actually have to work with.

Using only AC feedback, you can allow very high surges by simply changing the capacitor on the CT shunt, but have tight control of longer current use.


.................oztules

[UFA.Solar]

Hi Oz
Used the time to make a smale mesurement tool for voltage and current .
a AVR takes every second the readings from my charger LF5000 into a 24V
PbSo4 battery ~ 90Ah; the writen capacity .
Started the LF5000 attached to the grid 230 V input and got these results.
Put the data into an open office cal.
see the data attached to this file.
I am not so happy with my findings, they are compleetly different to my
working system ; thisd is duing real CC than CV and idle
do You know somebody with experience with the LF loader capability ?
all the best
UFA.Solar

[oztules]

I have no experience with the charger.

The plot looks about what I would expect for constant voltage charging .... ie set the voltage limit, and let the battery meet it according to the max current available.

What are you disappointed with?

............oztules

[UFA.Solar]

Hi Oz
Thanks a lot for Your answer.
!disapointed ! why ?
I miss the current control steps ( in my case 50, 75 und 100% --> 30 [A] )
That makes it possible also with lower Solar-energie to load the battery.
In my case power steps 500 [W] 1000 [W] or 1500 [W] available or not !!
The LF system take ~ 1400 [W] of my available to grid power.
This is rear in winter times in our area . The use of solar energy for the two
hausholds has priority !!
But ok it will du the job, if I cane not modify to the older possibility ( W7 style).
May bee I find a way to do that ; I dont give up so quickly !!
At this time the solar earnings are around 40 to 45 KWh per day , own use ~ 12 KWh
So the money counter is running .....for the bad times .....
very sunny greetings
UFA.Solar
Pict. Solardata from this month

[hodgo81]

Hi Oz and others.

This has been a great read... although somewhat confusing for a newbie. I have joined the site specifically to ask about this inverter.

I am thinking of getting a PJ  LF 3kw inverter for my 12V Ute back camper. Nomrally I try very hard to apply KISS principals, and have a very minimalistic setup.

I have 120aH deepcycle, mainly chargerd off alternator with a little 40w solar panel to top it up. And my usage is "normally" a 40L 12V fridge, LED lighting and charging phone and torch batteries.

However my better half is keen on taking her bullet blender next trip. It is rated at 1000w, and all my research is saying start up load will kill cheap inverters less than 2000w.

So my research and this thread has lead me to think I should get a PJ LF inverter, and 3kw should be enough for the blender. However I am concerned about the idle draw, so I will probably only plug the inverter and blender in to a 50A anderson plug on a short lead when I need it.

Does this sound reasonable? do i need to do the e-core mods?

Also does anyone have experience with the current gen 3kw LF PJ's?

thanks