Author Topic: Buck converter for small wind turbine project  (Read 83547 times)

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Offline rossw

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2012, 10:25:02 pm »
With the PMA at 200 RPM the input voltage was 170 volts, 1.5 amps input current, 12.34 output voltage, and 0.3 output current.

So there are major loses and the buck circuit is not working as it should but the test fixture is working.

If I assume 170V RMS or DC input, at 1.5A thats 255 watts in.
12.34V @ 300mA out is 3.7 watts out.
Where is the other 250 odd watts going??
SOMETHING is getting very hot. Or there's something you're not telling us..

Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #91 on: May 05, 2012, 07:57:57 pm »
Hi, I have not been receiving email notifications when anyone posts a response to my project. I found  intermittent contacts in the test circuit and I found a few of the DMV’s were not working correctly and had to replaced.  I changed the input capacitor to a much larger value and the circuit appeared to be working for awhile and then stopped. I think what happened is I exceeded the Maximum Power Dissipation value of the mosfets, I was only considering the Continuous Drain Current value as the limit. I also found some information about paralleling mosfets that said each mosfet should have it own gate resistor, I was only using one resistor for all four mosfets.  I think the reason for the earlier high voltage reading is because I exceeded the input cap voltage limit and the dielectric layer was destroyed and created a path to ground at the input, but it is just a theory.

I am currently replacing the mosfets with IRF540’s and each will have it own gate resistor.  I will use the Maximum Power Dissipation value to determine the current limit for the circuit and I will try not to exceed that value.   

The circuit is close to working it just needs some find tuning. I am trying to report my progress as complete as possible but my limited experience is making it difficult. I greatly appreciate all the suggestions I am receiving. I will post results after the repairs are made. Thanks again and comments are welcome.

Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2012, 06:07:09 pm »
Hi, I removed the four IRF510 and checked each one and they all passed. During that time I found a intermittent contact at the ground post going to battery.  At this time I believe this problem was the main reason for all the other problems. So the circuit status is not as hopeless as I previously thought. It is always the little things. The shame is on me.  I was also able to trace the source of the voltage spikes in the control signal back to the 555 timer.

Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #93 on: May 14, 2012, 08:09:27 am »
Hi, video update of project



I was baking DMV's when I was trying to measure higher currents for long periods of time. I added some analog current meter to address the problem.
12 coils per phase was creating very high voltages at the input. I reconfigured the stators to 4 coils per phase. Open circuit voltages was about twice the amount of the measured values at Vin when using the circuit.

New test data;

rotor speed 500 RPM
Vin    40voltsDC
Iin      3amps
Vout   12voltsDC
Iout     6amps
Duty cycle 50%   

Stators 4 coils per phase
stator resistance < 1 ohm

Circuit temp 82 degrees Fahrenheit

Inductor temp 170 degrees Fahrenheit
I need a better inductor.

I changed the inductor to the larger air core and values improved. About 60 watts at the input and about 60 watts at the output. The inductor temp was much cooler. Measured values are just ball park but I am starting to have better understand all the relationships involved. At this point I may have better performance at a lower switching frequency. 

I purchased some 500 volt 100 uF caps, IRF830’s, and some toroid 5 amp continuous inductors. I plan to parallel 4 of the caps, 4 of the mosfets, and 3 of the inductors. The new switching frequency will be about 6.5 kHz.  The manually selected duty cycle seem to be a nice function and will I have to recalculate the resistor values for the 555 timer and duty cycle selector switch. I not sure how well it work, but I will post results when available.       

   





           

Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #94 on: May 15, 2012, 08:00:58 am »
Hi, I configured the PMA using just 2 stators to form a 3 phase star, 8 coils per phase. Phase to phase resistance = 9 ohms.

Rotor RPM_____Voc DC
100____________15
200____________30
300____________45
400____________60
500____________75

Rotor RPM_____Vin DC____Amps in____Amps out
100____________16.5______? _________0.2
200____________27.3______0.2________1.0 
300____________28.8_____ 2.0_________5.0___Vout = 12.8Vdc   

Free wheeling diode temp = 82 degrees F
50% duty cycle                     
test fixture limit 300 RPM using load

Vout = 12 volt deep cell test load
measurements ball park , 60 Watts appears to be the limit of test fixture under load.

I have to remove one stator and rotor and then I will be able to road test. Search for ideas on how to limit voltage to 100 volts at the input to protect circuit. Comments welcome

I am do not know how to measure current with a O-scope. I am researching the method.


Maximum current output without using the circuit 2 amps. The circuit is definitely is a benefit.

     

Offline tomw

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #95 on: May 15, 2012, 08:32:38 am »

I am do not how to measure current with a O-scope. I am researching the method.   

One way is to use it to measure voltage across a known low resistance (shunt) like a shunt in any ammeter. Then you just do some math E=I*R or divide the violtage by the resistance to get amps.

A 1 foot hunk of #10 solid copper wire will drop 1 millivolt per amp of current through it. Good enough for comparisons as is and could be calibrated using a known good ammeter.


For those unfamiliar with the shorthand:

E=Volts

I=Amps

R=Resistance in Ohms

Probably other methods but this will work and is simple to do.

You could make a lookup table once you set up the circuit to eliminate constant arithmetic operations in use.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

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24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

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Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2012, 10:17:53 am »
Hi, thanks for the info. When I started this project I knew nothing about it and now I know next to nothing. I am making progress.
Thanks again and enjoy the day.  :)
     

Offline MadScientist267

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #97 on: May 19, 2012, 08:36:23 am »
Quote
60 Watts appears to be the limit of test fixture under load

In my experience, that's about the limit for efficient operation of a non-synchronous converter. Much higher than that and losses start to really add up in the diode.

Synchronous converters are a bit more of a challenge, but can provide more power at the output.

You are correct in that the test layout is also a limiting factor. You have parasitic everythings in there - Inductance, capacitance, you name it. It all adds up and works against you.

I can't emphasize enough that everything in the "grunt" portion of the circuit needs to be as close together as physically possible. A 3 inch wire here, 4 inch there, doesn't seem like much, and for DC it isn't. But at the switching frequencies that converters typically run at, they become inductors and cause switching pulses to "soften" and all kinds of other havoc. In fact, get enough inductance in the wrong area, and it will leave you scratching your head wondering why you have a pile of popped MOSFETs. :(

By close together I mean 1/4 inch. And heavy. At the power levels you're after, you have to minimize the losses everywhere you possibly can, or you're working backwards against yourself.

Your layout reminds me of my first few attempts at making a converter as well, and they all failed, miserably. Once I understood the importance of physical proximity and layout, the magic smoke stayed in and the power started flowing.

For learning purposes, there is inevitably a certain amount of rat nest in the mix. The sooner you can get away from it though, the better. For an idea of how it's typically done, examine a manufactured buck converter. You will notice that the 3 power handling components (tranny, inductor, diode) are very close together. VERY close. And the caps are not far from them either. Which brings me back to caps.

And caps. Caps, caps, and more caps. Caps on the input. Caps on the output. Low ESR caps. Right next to the switching components. Lots and lots of caps. It may seem like a couple 4700uF elecrolytics would have more brass than a dozen or so of their low ESR 47uF brethren, but at those frequencies, the inductance in the leads and plates of the 4700s become a significant issue, and reduce (if not just about eliminate) their effectiveness. Larger caps are ok to have in the mix, in fact I recommend that you keep them there. Just move them "further out" away from the switching components and use the smaller, more solid counterparts up close and personal with the switching components. You'd be amazed at how much this will improve performance. I usually use a few different values too - my theory there is it "detunes" the rails, and helps suppress and absorb ringing and pulses across a wider spectrum. Might be overkill, but I do it anyway.

It's not so much the actual switching frequency either, even though this of course plays a significant role. The switching frequency directly affects losses because the higher it is, the more often the transistor is in "linear" mode, which is essentially resistive, which translates to heat. But that's only part of the equation. The slew rate (time it takes the transistor to transition from fully off to fully on and vice versa) is also a significant contributor to the amount of power lost as heat in the transistor. The more time it takes to transition, the longer the transistor stays in the linear region on each cycle, which translates to even more heat.

Buck converters are finnicky little bastards, and it doesn't take much for the losses to add up and make them much less effective than they could be.

And keep things close together! (Think I already mentioned that!) :D

Steve
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Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2012, 08:54:31 am »
Hi, I started fabricating a new board and I will try to include all the suggestions. I am trying to increase the input voltage to as high as possible. I found some problems with the value of the bridge rectifiers and I am ordering new parts.  I am using 4.7 ohm on the gate resistor of the mosfet to keep the transition time low. Using the analog current meters to measure input and output current is working well, I was baking the DMV’s. I am using a infrared thermometer to measure the temp of the circuit board, it does help trace down problem areas on the circuit board.

Because the project is for a VAWT and the RPM’s are very low I purchased a F&P. 

 F&P open voltage measurements.
12 coils per phase, 3 phase star, phase to phase resistance 37 ohms, load 450 volt 470uF capacitor.

RPM________Voc DC
100_________130
150_________180
200_________230
250_________280
300_________330
just ballpark measurements, when circuit is operating the input volts equals half of the open circuit voltage. 

The output of the stock F&P is very high and safety is a major concern. . Safety first. Watch the end of the video.   

 
 
I should know more after the first road test which should be within a few weeks. I will start with direct drive and than adjust parameters based on results.

I am not receiving email notification when there is a reply to this topic. I greatly appreciate all the help I am receiving and I will post test results when available.   





Offline boB

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #99 on: May 27, 2012, 02:42:01 pm »
CooL video !!

Nice kitty, too.



Offline MadScientist267

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2012, 01:32:35 am »
Umm... wow man.

So let me get this straight... the arcs you were drawing are directly from the output from the generator? In other words, no step-up transformer or anything like that?

If so, you're looking at a LOT more than 700V there dude haha... Like maybe a couple (or better) orders of magnitude more? :o

I may have missed something... and I'm thinking that's probably the case, but it doesn't appear that the wiring would be able to keep all that inside.

So that being said, what DID I miss? LOL

Steve
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Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #101 on: June 01, 2012, 06:13:24 pm »
Hi, I found the video on you tube, I did not make the video. The F&P generates about 1 volt per revolution. It has a very high voltage output with low current. Because my VAWT is very slow I am trying it with the Buck converter. I purchased some new parts that should increase the input voltage limit to 450 volts and the output current limit to 15 amps. I am not sure if it will work. I added a 5 amp fuse at the input and a 15 amp fuse at the output of the circuit.  The F&P is very common on the Pacific side of the planet and is starting to show up in the states. I will be testing the F&P using direct drive so as long as the rotor RPM remains under 900 RPMs it should work with the circuit. Remember this is a experiment and a first attempt. 

Offline MadScientist267

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #102 on: June 02, 2012, 01:52:41 am »
Wow, ok... Just checking.

Sounds like you've got your head wrapped around this pretty well I suppose.

Just be careful man. That there aint no joke! LOL

Steve
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Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2012, 06:55:35 pm »
Hi, results from today’s stock F&P and Buck converter tests:
I replace the failed diode with five 3 amp 400 volts diodes and connected them in parallel. After increasing the PMA RPM above 100 the timing signal became unstable and the mosfet and diode array became very hot. Highest temp reading was about 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Then the mosfet or diode array stopped working. I will have to investigate to determine which one or both failed. Before the failure I was able to observe at shorter duty cycles the buck converter stopped converting and was feeding large voltage values into the battery, sometime above 100 volts.

 Conclusions from today’s test:
1. The stock wiring of the F&P produces a voltage much to high to be used with a buck converter to convert down to 12 volts for battery charging. The stator should be re-wired so that multiple phase coils are connected in parallel to reduce max voltage output to 50 volts for the max RPM of a turbine. Because of the quality of the materials; the plastic holding the stator together and the time involved to re-wire the stators I believe it is much easier for me to fabricate the PMA using established fabrication techniques. 

2. I was getting better results using lower switching frequencies. I will redesign the circuit to operate at around 10kHz or lower. After reviewing component cost and availability I am pursuing 5 amp power module configuration with single timing controller board, so for a 15 amp output would require one controller board and three power modules. I am not sure if it will work.

What I need to find out is as more power modules are connected in parallel can the switching frequency remain constant, or does the switching frequency have to increase because each power module  will have its own inductor and connecting the modules in parallel will reduce the inductance and cause the inductors to saturate. I am not sure and comments are welcome.   

 
 

Offline Burnit0017

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Re: Buck converter for small wind turbine project
« Reply #104 on: June 12, 2012, 12:10:21 pm »
Hi, is it possible to use high voltage capacitors in series to divide the input voltage to a more useable level?