Power Jack LF PSW 2015 Version Help

[jdavid56]

This version needs 220v to power the charger function. Specifically where is the 220v input? I see none on my machine or any other for that matter. Does the 220v output strip serve as input as well? If so, is this relay switched. I have received no help from the seller. Thanks.

Jd

[oztules]

Bottom left socket OR  CENTER BOTTOM terminal strip as pictured.... not both at the same time as you may mess up the phasing. They are labelled as such.

Do not plug mains into the output terminal strip on the right side.



Follow the rules for charging ... ie turn off unit before plugging in the mains input... and most importantly turn off unit before unplugging or turning off mains  input... or you may blow it up.






....oztules

[jdavid56]

Bottom left socket OR  CENTER BOTTOM terminal strip as pictured.... not both at the same time as you may mess up the phasing. They are labelled as such.

Do not plug mains into the output terminal strip on the right side.

(Attachment Link)

Follow the rules for charging ... ie turn off unit before plugging in the mains input... and most importantly turn off unit before unplugging or turning off mains  input... or you may blow it up.



....oztules

oztules - ...thanks for the quick reply. The terminal is labeled L,N,E and I assumed this was 110v only. If this is the input for 220v does the second hot occupy the N lug? Dumb question maybe, but information provided by the company was confusing at best. Thanks again.

Jd


[Mod edit - moved reply outside of quote for clarity - Steve]

[oztules]

I have misgivings about your question. "If this is the input for 220v does the second hot occupy the N lug?"
This implies you wish to connect two 220v inputs.... dont!.
You either plug in the plug from your jug or computer... 3 pin IEC plug ( female C13 to the male C14... a C15 female may fit too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320), OR you use the terminal strip if you have more than 10 amps of input from the mains for more than a few minutes.
You do not use both, as many people don't understand the L N and E pins of the IEC plug, and you can get the terminal strip shorting  out to the wrong line.
The L is for Line or active/hot
The N is for neutral
The E is for earth.

The N and E are connected together at your switch board so are at the same potential. The L is the mains active, and is 220vac rms above the neutral ( or 311v  peak volts)
They must not be confused by using and IEC plug, and the wrong wires going to line and neutral terminal strip ( center bottom).... so use one system OR the other.
Usually the computer plug will be sufficient, as the charging figures they quote have never been reached as far as I know... usually half that.

Inside the N and L are floating above ground. Because the unit syncs to the input voltage, it technically makes no difference if you mess up the terminal strip between N and L..... but it is important to get it right as you never know when you will run up against it in the future.... keep to the code!

I stress again, turn off inverter before any change is effected.. either introducing mains power or taking it away.... the latter is the very much more important caution. Turning off the mains while charging before turning off the unit will likely result in terminal unit failure.


................oztules

[jdavid56]

I have misgivings about your question. "If this is the input for 220v does the second hot occupy the N lug?"
This implies you wish to connect two 220v inputs.... dont!.
You either plug in the plug from your jug or computer... 3 pin IEC plug ( female C13 to the male C14... a C15 female may fit too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320), OR you use the terminal strip if you have more than 10 amps of input from the mains for more than a few minutes.
You do not use both, as many people don't understand the L N and E pins of the IEC plug, and you can get the terminal strip shorting  out to the wrong line.
The L is for Line or active/hot
The N is for neutral
The E is for earth.

The N and E are connected together at your switch board so are at the same potential. The L is the mains active, and is 220vac rms above the neutral ( or 311v  peak volts)
They must not be confused by using and IEC plug, and the wrong wires going to line and neutral terminal strip ( center bottom).... so use one system OR the other.
Usually the computer plug will be sufficient, as the charging figures they quote have never been reached as far as I know... usually half that.

Inside the N and L are floating above ground. Because the unit syncs to the input voltage, it technically makes no difference if you mess up the terminal strip between N and L..... but it is important to get it right as you never know when you will run up against it in the future.... keep to the code!

I stress again, turn off inverter before any change is effected.. either introducing mains power or taking it away.... the latter is the very much more important caution. Turning off the mains while charging before turning off the unit will likely result in terminal unit failure.


................oztules

Thanks again for your reply and good morning.  I would have misgivings too....if I were in Australia or the UK. I am in the States, where our "wall" power is 110v not 220v. This came to me based on your above information. It appeared you didn't understand my confusion...now I understand yours. If you will, please help me to provide 220v through the hard wire strip. I have our standard 120v split phase house mains; 2 120v hot legs out of phase with a center tap. Apparently I need to to step up the voltage to 220v with 3 leads. You can see now why I asked about energizing the neutral. I don't like the idea myself.  Is a step-up transformer needed for this application? Am I just missing something obvious? Thanks again. Hope this explanation helps. Thanks.

Jd

[oztules]

Yes, I can see where your coming from now.

My feeling is that they use split transformer/s for the 220v.

So unless you can get better info else where... do the following.

Open the unit, see where the terminal strip wires from the input goes to. If it goes to the circuit board direct, then yes to your question "If this is the input for 220v does the second hot occupy the N lug?"

The N terminal is then floating so becomes the second hot for your input.

Second test....... open unit and measure the voltage where the L and N come from the transformers to the circuit board.......while it is running as an inverter... If it is 110v ... I have no clue.... if 220v then yes to your question.

ie if there is 220v on the circuit board transformer input terminals L and N, then it is a standard 220v board with tapped transformers... hence the half power at 110v and full at 220v.

If there is only 110v on the circuit board... I have no ideas for you at all.



....................oztules

[jdavid56]

Thank you-good to know I'm not totally crazy. One last question and I will leave you alone. Would a step-up transformer, 110v to 220v, be indicated for this application? We in the States have to do this when off the continent. Thanks again-now off to check the inside of this beast.

Jd

[oztules]

It would need to be a very large transformer, and would achieve nothing  better than using the 220v direct....... unless you had no split phase available.

The only advantage that an step up would have is to give galvanic isolation... and I can't see how that would help in this instance.


................oztules

[jdavid56]

...thanks. If I decide charging batteries with the machine is necessary it could be an option; but probably not. I hope I find the neutral terminal floating. This would be best practice. Again thanks for your time.

Jd

[Charliepsycho]

My first post... be gentle please!

I'm running a new (2015) 24v/240V Powerjack 8000 LF in a horse lorry. It has 750watt of Solar (with a seperate MPPT controller) 335AH of flooded batteries and a large alternator, but as is usual with a lorry like this it can be standing for a while then run like mad with intermittent AC coming in.

One of the reasons I bought the Powerjack was because of the "UPS" function, e.g. the AC can come and go, just leave everything plugged in and don't worry... but the more I read (particularly above) the more I see that I need to switch off the PJ before plugging it in or unplugging it... So what is the UPS function?

Also my PJ has a little metal switch between the AC & DC Power blocks - it seems to switch on the fans, but I haven't seen anything in the 'documentation' has anyone else seen that? Oh... and does anyone know what the "BTY Volts" dial is about???

Sorry lots of questions... I've also asked PowerJack through the ebay questions and emailed them direct... no joy there though!

Thanks in advance for any help

...(c)

[oztules]

Hi Charlie.
These controllers were taken from a design that used lossy transformers, and so the UPS worked fine both connecting and disconnecting to the mains.

When they took that board and grafted it to torroids, this function still works fine for connection, ( it syncs in nicely every time), but it reverts to 50hz from whatever the mains was ( 50 +_ something)  instantly the power gets disconnected.... this causes problems if the wave forms don't match... so it will work sometimes, and blow the thing up other times..... so unless you down grade your trannies to EI types..... you will find UPS function will be scary to use.... I don't trust it, and have a few blown boards to attest to this... but thats what experimenting costs.

The other hang over from the original manufacturer, was the boards ran the fans full time ( W7 power star and a few others... all use the big EI transformers, UPS works fine, fans full speed all the time, but very lossy on idle power). PJ use the tacho and temp to turn on the fans, usually too late, so it looks like they have a fans on all the time switch........ for heavy usage .....or  if your normal usage gets the thing hot... have not seen that switch so far, but a useful addition.....particularly if they have skimped on the transformers as happened here .... http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,1074.msg10643.html#msg10643.

As a straight 2-3kw unit you should have no problems.... with ups.....  I have had poor results... maybe they have improved....but doubt it, as it is deep in the programming, and I suspect they have no access to that part... or if they have, they have not moved on this for years, and it would be an important selling point if they did it properly.
A simple drift back to frequency would stop all the problems after it looses AC input frequency I think.


The BTY switch is for setting the battery type so that the multi  stage charging will match the technology. The switch settings can be found on the ebay adds, and in your manual..... there is a setting for equalisation there also.... actually a fair charger..... but the turning off after usage is a pain.

If you really need UPS then the W7 powerstar or equivalent is the way to go, and some relief can be gotten with a reasonable inductor in the primary to get at least some of the losses down.... still be over 2-3kwh/day though for the 6kw units. ( real KW too )... only the losses stop me using them in their native form.



................oztules

[Charliepsycho]

Thanks for that, I read a lot of your other posts. This unit draws 1.02 amps on no load, so probably not worth doing the inductance mod as it looks like they have already done it. And it is fairly important to have a low quiescent load if you are onsite for any length of time, plus you need the power for the girls hair-straighteners!... Which explains why I want something where all they have to do is plug it in or unplug it... no complex switches.

The basic trick seems to be  switch it off before unplugging it and hope there are no power failures if it is plugged in! It's a shame, this would be the ideal unit otherwise... I can't think of an easy way to solve it either

Incidentally, I have searched high and low for anything in the adverts or the manuals covering the BTY volts dial, you wouldn't have any ideas on good places to look?

Many thanks...
...(c)

[Charliepsycho]

I found some information on the 12vGridTIEinverters site in the blog

**Mod EDIT **

Code: [Select]

www.12vgridtiepowerinverters.com/blog
[  made non clickable as this site is known to have contained malware ]
Tested here http://global.sitesafety.trendmicro.com/
Plus various other online scanners


It's not great tho!

Question on 15000W LF Pure Power Inverter DC48V to AC 230V with Battery Charger

Q: What the volt adjustment is for on the battery charger it the small white round switch with #o to 9 so please what dose it do?

A:On the volt adjustment, you can adjust this to match your battery voltage, "1" is the lowest battery voltage, and "8" is the highest battery voltage,(0 and 9 do not have charging function), you can begin from 1, then 2, then 3..., until the right number that suit for your battery voltage.

[oztules]

No Charlie, thats not quite right... even though PJ say the same thing....

It is actually the multi stage charger settings.... it could be construed as voltage settings, but that is not right... this is what it really is.... it is to set YOUR battery type..
Just voltage figures are pointless for charging unless they are incorporated into a charge regime of some type.

0        Not used
1        Gel USA              14.0 bulk charge     13.7 float charge
2       AGM 1                  14.1 bulk                   13.4 float
3       AGM2                   14.6 bulk                   13.7 float
4.      Sealed lead         14.4 bulk                   13.6 float
5.      Gel European     14.4 bulk                   13.8 float
6.      Flooded lead      14.8 bulk                   13.8 float
7.      Calcium  open    15.1 bulk                   13.6 float
8.      Equalisation        15.5 for 4 hours
9.      Not used   

Thats what they really are.

The PJ manual just gives the bulk/main charge voltage.... no other info..... I'm not sure they know a lot about the board they have gotten hold of





.................oztules

[Charliepsycho]

Many Many thanks Oztules, that's exactly what I needed. I suppose I best write that up and stick it to the inverter for when I have forgotten all about it

To be fair to the fan controller, I thought it switched on admirably early, certainly in charge mode it comes on quite quickly and blows only very slightly warm. Although I did have a point after a heavy charge where it blew really quite warm and started buzzing (like something was in the fan.) Then I found the fans wouldn't switch off at all! e.g. No matter what switches where off, no matter how the mains was disconnected... I had to disconnect the batteries eventually to stop it (even though I left it blowing for half an hour with everything switched off) and by morning it was quiet when I reconnected and tested all the functions (no fans started.) It didn't buzz when I manually started the fans with the switch either. I suspect spiders

Needless to say I reckon Powerjack must be adding the mods as you write them here! But I am going to give their support some hassle to explain just what the UPS function is if the red writing in their Manual repeatedly says turn it off before connecting or disconnecting mains

Now all I have to do is pluck up the courage to see how many transformers are in it!

Thanks again...
...(c)