Anotherpower.com Forum
Renewable Energy Questions/Discussion => Renewable Energy Q&A => Topic started by: Isaiah on February 27, 2012, 09:45:35 pm
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Those four columns I wrote are packed with expert opinions and what's going on in other states and much more.
http://www.usobserver.com/archive/july-11/epa-abolished.html
Devvy
I have read Devvy' s columns for many years and have communicated with her on and off over the years .
Devvy is in the process of taking the smart meter issue in her state to the PUC and administrative judge.
I have issues with my local also and maybe we can come together and work these issues out with these utility's.
if any one wants to contact her I think her email addy is at the end of the article.
And yes this is why we are messing with off grid power.
isaiah
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Please elaborate some on this topic and why you linked us..
( I have verified Isaiah's account was not hijacked ;D )
I am particularly interested in this topic as I and friends have proven that at least OUR power co seems to have meters that are
*ahem* "randomly accurate".
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I looked at the linked article
and it doesn't say anything about Smart meters
did you provide the wrong link ?
or did you title this incorrectly ?
The article is about the EPA being Out Of Control
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Yeah, what wooferhound said?
Maybe you snagged the wrong url?
That EPA article is a bit over the top for me.
Tom
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Tom
You were right she gave me the wrong url and it was late and i was a bit of a hurry so here is the correct info
I hope this clears things up
isaiah
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http://www.devvy.com/smart_meter_legal_defense.html
Just click on the caption and the column will come up:
My fight against the 'smart meter' - Aug 15, 2011
(You don't want one of those dangerous things on your house)
Smart Meters - The new silent killer - Sept 2, 2011
'Smart' Meter That Does NOT Save Energy - Sept 24, 2011
Update on my fight against the smart meter - Jan 24, 2012
***************************************************************
isaiah
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I have my reasons to dislike the new meters, particularily where the power company * allegedly* can change
meter calibration to show more or less power than the customer actually uses.
I must point out I generally agree with many points contained within your links.
One topic however I must raise objection to.
RF from these devices causing ill effects..
I know some might not agree with me nor like my opinion.
I also cannot legitimately say that these arguments that disagree with what I point out are without merit.
Although I respect the thoughts and opinions of those who think differently than I do on this.
It's near impossible to say given the complicating factors I refer to below.
I cannot see how these meters are any more health concern because of rf radiation than any other device today.
First of all the idea of these being any more dangerous in close proximity seems a little under thought.
These are designed to transmit and receive at a relatively low frequency in order to propagate a rather poor medium for data transfer.
Secondly these signals are entering your home through the wiring of the house whether you have one of these meters on your house or not. Any meter on the power companies line send the very same rf, and it MUST by DESIGN follow the power lines as their physical data connection. Meaning all meters local to you are transmitting rf that will likely find its way into your home. Secondly many versions of these
devices are now two way communicating. Each substation has a transceiver to do this, and from there they transfer this data by a number of means to the power companies data storage facilities
Also, these power lines have particular wavelength(s) they naturally respond to, depending characteristics of each of the lines.
This generally VERY low but they do pick them up on many different wavelengths and carry these into your home as well.
How many electric blankets, power lines, radio stations, cell phones, cordless phones, satellite broadcasts, computers, microwaves, wifi,
TVs, radio receivers ( yeah they produce minute rf also look up superhetrodyne),
CF or any florescent bulbs, induction ranges, monitors, switching power supplies... I could go on literally until I die of old age..
All these devices output a small but statistically significant RF signal, yet very few people seem to have any trouble with these devices.
There are exception of a very few extraordinary circumstances of course. Such people have included those with severely damaged nervous systems, metal shrapnel, and certain immuno compromised individuals. This is of course a very small percentage of the population, even less when you weed out those that actually have psychological problems and not any true physical symptoms.
I know a family that owns/operate many radio stations..
These guys build them and have literally spent most of their lives within a stones throw of very strong AM band frequency radiating from the tower pushing over 100KW. They are all well into their 40s with their parents that started this business near or into their 80s.. Not any part of that family has had ill effects like cancers, or any other effects generally attributed to RF exposure.
In fact it's surprisingly rare to EVER see any of them sick at all.
We are and always have been in a constant bombardment of radio waves from the sun, stars, quasars, and any other cosmic source.
In the greater part of the last century humans have upped the exposure building terrestrial sources, with the design to focus these radio waves in frequency and power..
Another hotly debated similar topic, cell phones.
Once you take factors out like heat rash or light burns, all the way to exploding batteries from using phone that are getting to hot..
The ability to single out a device is SO hard, that even with a very particular set of circumstances which cell phones create, its very hard to get any conclusive evidence that they produce any ill effects that are not caused by the physical awkward positions needed to use them..
This may change as time and exposure get greater in the future given these created circumstances are still relatively new biologically speaking
Again, I'm not saying anyone is wrong.
I am just trying to point out, any one device being singled in this way and labeled as a potential cause of illnesses, is almost impossible to back up in any meaningful way. Numbers and statistics are notoriously bent to suit the need.
When I see hospitals and clinics full of problems that can be definitively attributed to a certain device. That's when I can believe it.
With RF, its going to be a VERY hard to track, and even harder to prove situation.
Again, I'm also not happy with the smart meters.
There has to be some legal limitations set forth on them.. a
As much as I HATE adding laws to an already broken legal system..
It comes down to the fact big business has a habit of not working for consumers, and things that are now relied on for life today like electricity cannot be left up to shareholders and CEOs.
Well I better shut up now this has been just another of my normal overly long rants..
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I Know I'm safe because I have my Tin Foil Hat on . . .
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here are questions and answers I got from my local electric company as received.
BTW you can hard boil an egg with two cell phones.
Dear Mr. Forster,
Thank you for your inquiry. There are a lot of questions right now about smart meters as many utilities are in the process of implementation. We actually completed full deployment of our automated meter system in 2005 and have been able to provide quality, real-time data to our members now for many years. In fact, the graph that you see on your monthly bill is a result of the data we are able to retrieve from your meter. The technology allows us to help our members better understand and manage their energy use.
I consulted with our engineer to help with answers to some of your questions. If you need further information or clarification, please feel free to ask. We are happy to provide the information.
With your new smart meters why are we receiving an estimated bill?
In early February our metering system crashed, causing a significant loss of data and functionality. After nearly three weeks of work, we have rebuilt the system and now have a more robust back-up in place to help us avoid this type of loss in the future. In the immediate aftermath of the failure, we were unable to retrieve data through the system, which is why we had to estimate bills in February.
How is the signal transmitted from the meter?
The signal is transmitted via Power Line Carrier back to the substation, then via 900 Mhz radio back to the office.
What means do you have to receive this signal?
Collectors in the substation transmit the information back to the office where it is received on a standard radio receiver.
What frequency dose the smart meter system operate on?
Meters use the 60 Hertz power line and inject a 1-3 kHz wave onto the 60 hertz.
Do you have hand outs for the health hazards of the smart meter system?
There is a lot of conflicting information about health hazards related to smart meter systems. However, we believe, and your board of directors believes, that this technology is a wise and safe choice for our co-op members and their families. We are all continuously exposed to very low levels of both natural and man$B!>(Bmade radio frequency (RF) fields. Even the earth$B!G(Bs surface and the human body are constant sources of RF fields. Inside your own home you will likely find numerous items that emit RF fields including microwave ovens, cell phones, cordless phones, televisions, Wi$B!>(BFi signals, antennas and receivers as well as lighting. Again, we have significant experience with our own system and have no reason to believe that it has caused or resulted in health hazards of any kind.
Just think we used to read the meter ourselves at no cost to you. Now we will probably find it costs you more for the meter reader and office help to process?
Even when members were reading their own meters, there was still a cost to the cooperative, and ultimately the members, related to entering and processing data, estimating or sending field personnel to the home when meter reads weren't turned in, etc. Your board of directors approved this undertaking and the associated costs because of the benefit of automation and information. Again, we have been fully deployed for seven years and firmly believe the investment in our infrastructure and system is ultimately a tremendous benefit to you and the other users at the other end of the line.
Again, we thank you for taking the time to ask the questions. There are so many misconceptions and assumptions surrounding this technology, and we would much prefer to deal with these kinds of questions directly and continue in our attempts to educate our members.
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Katie Mack
Customer Care Representative
Midwest Energy Cooperative
Comment from a friend "More clever word Smithing."
We have also heard of billing changes with the smart meters some very drastic.
Also Id like to comment that they were selling the bb over the wire internet and the company that was doing it for them closed their doors.
quote from their news letter
''IBEC announced in December that it is exiting the blp business after finical and technology issues preventing them from sustaining their business model.""
Could you imaging internet over those wires with all the static and magnetism?
It would definitely sound much worse than the 1939 patch on patch phone line we have here.
Oh ya the phone co will sell you broad band over those wires too but you wont get what you paying for..
The last comment on the smart meter is the pwr co didnt get permission to put that on our property!!
Isaiah
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BTW you can hard boil an egg with two cell phones.
Isaiah
References?
I find it hard to believe that a radio transmitter of 2W output which only transmits for one eighth of the time (its mulitplexed so the average power is only 1/4 watt) will cook an egg very well. Try it with a couple of small torch bulbs which would have similar heating effect and see how long it takes.
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Remember the journalists motto: "Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story".
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2 watt is along the lines of older analog hand phones. Even at that there is absolutely NO way to hard boil an egg..
Modern cells working on digital GSM and similar newer technologies work on the lines of a couple hundred milliwatt.
If a couple cell phones could hard boil and egg..
You would be deaf by the end of a phone call from the radiation burns and damage to all of the delicate tissues in and of the ear
Compare these figures with the radiation and heating effects of direct sunlight on an object.
Please, try two cell phones on each side of an egg. Record it and prove it to me..
No pre existing youtube videos, no tricks.. Id love to see it
Sorry I am a little harsh on the issue. But I believe there are a lot of false claims being made about the effects of extremely low power RF.
For what ever reasons these are so rampant and wide spread that the general unknowing public are inclined to believe it, no matter the truth.
I have a long history working in high powered RF..
I have been briefly exposed a few times to RF at powers that really COULD hard boil an egg in a few minutes time.
Although I do have time I worry about the long term effects that those exposures may cause, I worry little of the low powered devices.
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2 watt is along the lines of older analog hand phones. Even at that there is absolutely NO way to hard boil an egg..
Modern cells working on digital GSM and similar newer technologies work on the lines of a couple hundred milliwatt.
If a couple cell phones could hard boil and egg..
You would be deaf by the end of a phone call from the radiation burns and damage to all of the delicate tissues in and of the ear
Compare these figures with the radiation and heating effects of direct sunlight on an object.
Please, try two cell phones on each side of an egg. Record it and prove it to me..
No pre existing youtube videos, no tricks.. Id love to see it
Sorry I am a little harsh on the issue. But I believe there are a lot of false claims being made about the effects of extremely low power RF.
For what ever reasons these are so rampant and wide spread that the general unknowing public are inclined to believe it, no matter the truth.
I have a long history working in high powered RF..
I have been briefly exposed a few times to RF at powers that really COULD hard boil an egg in a few minutes time.
Although I do have time I worry about the long term effects that those exposures may cause, I worry little of the low powered devices.
No ''pun" intended.
However, I do know what is wrong with me. NO, it's not the smoke I did NOT inhale, it's the two cell phones I talk on simultaneously at times. One at each ear.....
:o
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Totally agree Wolv.
Ignorance is these guys greatest weapon. The general public is unbelievably ignorant.
I too have worked with RF since my early teenage years, everything from QRP milliwatt amateur radio gear from 1.8MHz up to my old X-band stuff (modified plessy GUNN diode modules with varicap modulation), through kilowatt linears in from HF up to 1.296GHz for the old EME (or "moonbounce") stuff, and of course with commercial radio equipment in tens (and one case hundreds) of kilowatts of carrier.
The radiated power from cellphones just isn't going to even make an egg luke warm.
That said: a couple of years ago, I was doing some testing of Motorola Cannopy OFDM wireless gear. They'd brought it to our offices for consideration. Well, some quick tests inside wouldn't hurt, surely. After all - peak power was +30dBm
in the band we were looking. (1 watt for you non-radio-techies). And that was EIRP.
Well, I had started the setup, but then got distracted on a phone call for a while. I could *FEEL* something funny. Couldn't put my finger on it, exactly.... but as soon as I got off the phone I twigged.
Someone had put one of these radios on their "optional" Point-to-Point kit. Which was basically a large, solid, parabolic reflector. They'd aimed it away from themselves - but not even realised it was aimed right at me!
Worse yet, when I did some investigation - their 30dBm was actually +36dBm (they had mis-read the spec, and they were allowed 4 watts in the 2.4GHz spectrum, not up here in 5.8GHz), and they were running that as RF IN to their antenna - which had 6dB gain already (so we're now at +42dBm) - and at least another 28dBi from the parabolic, so we're up to +70dBm in front of it....
Doesn't sound like much? Think again! That narrow beam out the front was the equivalent to standing in front of a 10kW microwave source!
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I just realized how surprisingly similar the power companies response was to mine.
This is my experience with smart meters.
We have had smart meters here since 2003. Back just before the smart meters our power bill was 50-80 a month.
after the meters our usage has went up drastically over that first year they were installed.
Sure I have added a few devices, however I have also significantly lowered our usage in other areas.
Our basic fee has went up, so has the cost per kwh. But I saw our bill go from 50-80 , to 250-320 a month.
And supposedly our total KWH use has raised 3-4x
I was always in question of why, spent months trying to locate what we were doing to cause our usage to go up so drastically.
One day an electrician friend of mine and I were talking this over, and decided to do as he did and buy a calibrated standard type meter to put in our main feed. The error between the meters we installed, and the power co. meters were as we expected.
His results per month varied less than ours did, but always in favor of the power company.
Another interesting thing..
He is a what we call a snowbird, who leaves the area in the winter, and shuts down his house to a point it only draws minimal power for security systems etc. His bill did not change one bit the 6 months he was gone compared to what it was while he was there the first year, despite his protests.
He eventually got an attorney to write a letter asking for an explanation of this and why their meter was drastically different than his ..
The bill changed a lot, the meters seem to read nearly the same while he is gone. But each year since this happened, predictably a week or so after he leaves, the power company shows up and "inspects" their meter, though he gives them no information when he leaves.
Ours was always extremely in favor of the power company. 3-4x disparity just like I was seeing in our bill.
Now I immediately got into it with the power company the first month.. They came out and *replaced* the smart meter.
Next month the two were spot on, and our bill was $120 like I would think it should be.
The month after that, we were right back to where it was, plus we got an extra charge for the meter change.
I got into a nice arguing match with a few employees over this, and got no where but the meter change cost removed, or so I was told it would be.
The 3rd month I got a $720 something bill.
This bill stated they had made a mistake on the bill that we got of $120, plus the meter change fee. and the current month of $320.
They also stated this ill was due immediately or I faced disconnection in 3 days..
I threatened to bring them to court, talked to a few attorneys, and they all told me I have virtually no chance to win such a fight.
I wound up paying this bill, and have been carefully weighing my options since, and have some plans I best not make public at this time.
Part of these plans are getting this place off the grid.
Tomorrow I pick up the first of my solar panels..
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What frequency dose the smart meter system operate on?
Meters use the 60 Hertz power line and inject a 1-3 kHz wave onto the 60 hertz.
This is not high frequency microwaves
It's not even radio
it's in the middle of the audio frequencies
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Part of these plans are getting this place off the grid.
Tomorrow I pick up the first of my solar panels..
Do you get the feeling that even if you cut your electric
consumption 30% of what it is now your bill will remain
almost the same ?
It seems you just can't beat the system
Our electric company works on the assumption that
everyone is a deadbeat especially us.
We've gone for years paying our electric bill on time
....making out a full payment check and mailing it off
the very same day we receive the bill ......yet if they mail
the bill to us in the afternoon and we don't get it as soon
as they expected .....therefore they don't get our payment
the day before yesterday.....they have already sent out a
late payment notice.....Ka Ching ! Late Payment Charge !
What a kick in the head......Hard to convince them that we
have to know how much we owe before we can pay them....
Norm.
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Do you get the feeling that even if you cut your electric
consumption 30% of what it is now your bill will remain
almost the same ?
Yeah, I'm totally expecting to see that happen, or maybe it will increase yet again.
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Part of these plans are getting this place off the grid.
Tomorrow I pick up the first of my solar panels..
Do you get the feeling that even if you cut your electric
consumption 30% of what it is now your bill will remain
almost the same ?
It seems you just can't beat the system
Our electric company works on the assumption that
everyone is a deadbeat especially us.
We've gone for years paying our electric bill on time
....making out a full payment check and mailing it off
the very same day we receive the bill ......yet if they mail
the bill to us in the afternoon and we don't get it as soon
as they expected .....therefore they don't get our payment
the day before yesterday.....they have already sent out a
late payment notice.....Ka Ching ! Late Payment Charge !
What a kick in the head......Hard to convince them that we
have to know how much we owe before we can pay them....
Norm.
Gee, Norm.
Is the name on the bill Ben Dover ?
If so maybe thats why every time you deal with them they say "bend over" ??
;) :D ;D
Tom
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Do you get the feeling that even if you cut your electric
consumption 30% of what it is now your bill will remain
almost the same ?
Yeah, I'm totally expecting to see that happen, or maybe it will increase yet again.
LOL Norm,
Just yesterday the POCO was out with a "report" that my meter was spinning backwards....they were right, they knew I had contacted them about signing an interconnection agreement ( one time fee of 100 bucks), and they were cool enough to say "you can mail it in a week or so" however I think they really got to wondering if I had broken the seal and flipped the meter upside down.
Apparently in the home office they can determine if someone is meter tampering...sure I was tampering...that meter was hauling ass backwards, but it was legal tampering...then the guy wanted to know for safety concerns for linemen if I cut the main breaker off it would it still shut the solar down with the grid...so I gave him a test run of that, but I first warned him that when I throw the main breaker, he would still see that most of the lights in the house will remain on but without being connected to the grid....lol then he wanted to know about the windmill and outback inverter....
With that outback inverter, if any excess power is being made above charging the batteries it goes into the grid, if the grid is up, thus it slows or spins my meter backwards...seen it done a few times in stong winds. But it also kicks off feeding the grid if the grid goes down too, and I thenI burn the excess off in bank of resistiors.
It was a windy day when that guy was out here and the controller was going "Clickity-Clack" dumping power into resistors while he stood there bathed in light knowing the main service breaker was off and not one watt was going back into the grid
He said "Damn you've done your homework"
LOL.... Sometimes it worth every penny to stick it to the man!
I think more than one POCO is seriously seeing solar, wind...any R.E's as a serious threat to their monopoly
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Really stick it to the man and cut the cord. Making power for the grid is a win, win, win for them. You are making their power (to sell), they have little investment in your tie in and they still got you on a string to play with your investment. Harvest and store if you can, sounds like you are almost there, I am very close myself. Dave B.
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it was showen at the time a cell on each side of the egg and locked on and music was set to them constantly for 12 hrs as I remember to cook the egg. this may or may not be true but look at how long these kids to day have those things stuck in their ear.or mashing those buttons i think they call it texting or something any ways it mind poison
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it was showen at the time a cell on each side of the egg and locked on and music was set to them constantly for 12 hrs as I remember to cook the egg. this may or may not be true but look at how long these kids to day have those things stuck in their ear.or mashing those buttons i think they call it texting or something any ways it mind poison
OK. Lets assume 2 watts from each phone. Lets allow zero de-rating - even though as a digital transmission they will only be operating for some (relatively) small percentage of the time.
Lets assume 100% of the energy from each phone is completely radiated 100% into the egg. (Reality is that with a non-directional antenna, energy will be radiated across a wide range of angles).
After 12 hours, that would be 48 watt-hours. (The reality is it'd be more like 10% of that given the above wildly illogical over-allowances of 100% transmit time and catching 100% of the radiated energy etc).
Compare that to putting the same egg out in the midday sun in summer.
I just went and measured an egg from the fridge. If it captured the ENTIRE solar radiation of 1000W/m^2, that egg will absorb 2.7 watts. That's 32.4 watt-hours if it was in the mid-day sun for 12 hours.
So the reality is that having 2 phones stuffed up your nostrils for an hour is roughly equivalent to standing in the sun for 9 minutes.
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There is an interesting 'tube video about that shows cooking up an egg with 4-5 mobiles in a circle on a coffee table.
They don't show the stripped out microwave oven under the table however blasting out 500w of 2.4GHz...
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Norm you may want to inform the electric company that the bill is paid on the post mark!!! the post mark is good enough for the federal government its good enough for all else
Not the day some office help enters it into your account
one other tip if you pay by check or mo put your account number on the check! or else the secretary may take it to buy lunch.
put it over there where it says memo.
I had troubles with the garbage pick up company and also had credit card numbers stolen from Amazon!!!
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Thanks for the tips Isaiah....any help is always welcome.
Norm.
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My old neighbor guy got a water and sewer bill for... let us say $47.62?
However, it was for the home at WEST thisstreet, instead of EAST thisstreet.
So he heads down to the idiot hall.
He gets HIS correct bill, which is $47.62.
Really?
2 people in their 80s at the EAST address use as much water and sewer as 6~8 people at the WEST address, right down to the penny?
The last "estimated" bill i got from the water dept was $900.04.
Really?
$900.04?
One of those idiots can estimate it down to $0.04? They can not differentiate between EAST and WEST.
And if I did NOT pay $900.04 they would shut the water off!
So I go down there, WITH my meter reading, and they say 'oops'.
It turns out I am overpaid by so much they won't even give me an estimate... go figure.
After 3 or 4 more estimated billing cycles that say my balance is $0, they send another bill that says they estimate I owe them money.
This estimate is from the people who estimated I owed them $900... and 4 cents.
However, I have NOT made a PAYMENT in 90 or 120 days, or whatever, apperently I am behind on making payments.
Hard to make a suitable paymet to them if they owe ME money!
And if I do not pay them what they estimate what I owe them, they will shut my water off in a few days, charge fees for bookkeeping, reconnection, etc to reconnect it.
Here is the kicker...
They charge 10% late fee. (not sure that is even legal)
Meaning $90 for a late fee when I did NOT owe them money, and they DID owe ME money?
FedEx left stuff on my porch, right before I go to work.
I didn't order it.
I call them, from work, "You left stuff on my porch that I did NOT order, and it ain't mine".
They can't do anything about it without this number and that number.
Uh...this is my address, this is the address where the stuff is supposed to be delivered, and the stuff is on the porch? NOPE! They don't even care where I am, or where the stuff is. They won't even let me give them that data.
I call them back a few more times.
Its been more than a month.
The stuff is still on my porch.
Gawd. I love this town.
G-
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Norm,
if you want to turn the tables a little bit when you pay the bill you over pay a dollar!
then you are not late as you already payed on the next months bill if not they'll have to enter your credit or send you a refund !
make their life as miserable as they do yours.
as these company's get closer to bankruptcy the more tricks they will come up with a few cents from you a few from me befor you know its a lot of money.
isaiah
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You can't even get an egg warm with 100 cell phones
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I have personally seen one small rural electric coop go from near bankruptcy to the caufers overflowing by adjusting the voltage a little higher. Mine is coming through the meter at 136 VAC instead of 120 VAC. That might be what's happening elsewhere as well.
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the extra 16 volts will be lost after it goes through the meter?
might be something for every one to safely check as close to their meter as they can.
I got to go to town and look for some tin foil to reline my hat all these cell phones that don t have any out put.
The cell may not put out the radiation but what about the satellite that is transmitting back and forth?
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How close are you to the satellite?
:)
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As always, please feel free to point out where I am wrong
This is how I understand how supply voltage changes will effect overall usages
Messing with the voltages for them would need to be very selective, and many times will do minimal good unless they know exactly what the house load consists of.
If you lower the voltage the amperage draw will increase in anything but resistive loads in order to get the energy needed to run the device.
So for example..
A house with more devices containing switching power supplies, these will maintain all the required output voltages required for the device, however they need to draw more amperage from the supply line to do so. As devices draw more amperage, there is more lost to heat in the supply lines between the meter and the device. Raising the voltage can slightly improve efficiency here, as long as its withing the devices input voltage range.
Raising the voltages on a resistive load generally has a limited effect.
Take a coffee pot, or water heater as examples. The heating element in it will turn on draw slightly higher amperage, heat up faster.. then shut down at the desired temperature. Sure it draws more while it is on, but it also gets to target temperature quicker, so the effect is minimal. The biggest drawback is this might shorten the devices lifetime to raise the voltage. Lowering the voltage might cause things like the need to replace lights ( incandescent ) to higher draw ones to compensate for the lowered light conditions.. Or sizing up water heaters etc. So a lowered voltage in time may cause a higher draw in time because of the need to compensate.
Either of the above show a very limited effect if the supply lines are short and built with extra capacity over what your drawing.
Inductance loads.. (motors etc )
These generally always draw more some will draw a LOT more power, some will not change much at all, all depending on what it is and how much it's doing. But these almost always become less efficient as the supply conditions stray from the designed specs.
So depending on your devices in each home.. the raising or lowering of the voltage might not do much, and the effect is becoming less all the time as more devices are built with stepper style or servo motors. ( front load washers, newer dishwashers certain high efficiency multi voltage fridges).
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Isaiah
First of all (unless you *are* using a satellite phone) they do not talk to satellites.
They talk to (many) terrestrial towers.
Now as far as how much power is reaching you from the tower.. Well think about this, you are being bombarded 100% of the time from thousands of rf sources. Every radio,tv station every cell phone, tower, and every satellite that are aimed to your part of the country, then add in the sun and cosmic sources.
Your cell phone is mostly a passive receiving device when receiving from the tower(s) it is talking to. It does not build any special path, though it may have a very very small ionization area around it. When I say small, I mean small you probably get a much higher ionization effect by walking around in wool stockings.
Ok lets remove the almost to small to measure rf from the cell phones hetrodyne circuits for a moment to consider in another way what this means.
The effects of holding a cell phone in such theoretical purely receive mode, are virtually the same as if you do not have a cell phone any where near you. Any random piece of wire can be tuned to a frequency of a transmitter near you, and such would be the same as a cell phone receiving from that source. Depending on distances involved, sitting there reading this, your computer, monitor, lights, and the timing circuits in the keyboard you type on may be a higher source of rf than you are getting from that tower.
Are you getting more paranoid yet?
This stuff has been researched for many decades in order to understand how to built more efficient, effective devices.
Researchers and people in the field have a good understanding of how to predict these powers, and this is verified by real life observations.
The formulas to predict and compair radiation sources have been known a long time, and I can tell you for fact, a cell phone tower presents little to no more health problems than the TV tower of the 1950's
Living things deal with this stuff all of the time, today its almost impossible to escape the man-made radiation sources.
Life has dealt with the cosmic sources of all sorts of radiation, and were probably influenced by them ever since life existed in this universe.
As a result biology has built certain resistances to such radiation, giving us the ability to handle a considerable amount of exposure.
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This thread reminds me of a news item that the BBC ran some 10-15 years ago about the placing of a cell tower on the roof of a school in south London
The news team turned up with RF field strength measuring equipment to 'prove' that the cell tower was dangerous (not at all biased!!) but they hit a problem with the Crystal Palace TV transmitter (used for BBC TV transmissions) that could be seen in the background some 2 miles away. The field strength in the playground from the TV transmitter even at 2 miles was 100 times that from the cell tower on the roof.
Why so large a difference? Well:
the TV transmitter was running 450,000 watts
the cell tower was running 20watts
the TV transmitter was sending the signal low to the ground so that the TV aerials on peoples houses would get the signal OK.
the cell tower aerial was projecting the signal horizontally from the roof level - it didn't need any blasted straight downwards towards the playground but was designed to hit the ground 1/2 a mile away to keep efficiency high
Twas an interesting item ;)
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As always, please feel free to point out where I am wrong
OK, I will! ;D
You might be thinking in overly under voltage, like stall?
Going from 108VAC to 136VAC would not be a huge difference in most items operational characteristics.
"Inductance loads.. (motors etc )
These generally always draw more some will draw a LOT more power, some will not change much at all"
Yup, mostly.
Now consider this... my house... right now.
Laptop (switcher power supply, drawing 40~60W? I dunno), 2 x 11W CFLs, a 13W CFL, a few phantom loads (doorbell and furnace transformers, 2 cordless phone wallwarts, remote controlled CRT TV, etc).
Then the gas furnace kicks on for 5 minutes? Then the fridge, then the meat freezer?
It won't take long before a day's worth of a laptop use is passed by a few minutes of motors running.
Back to "These generally always draw more" (amps).
120V to 136V. 13.333% more volts?
13.333% more amps too? (probably not, usually)
28% increase in the bill?
Less % lost in transmision?
More % billed to the user?
More profit.
Bulbs will draw about the same current. That's still a 13% increase in billable sales. Same postage, secretary, bookkeeper, paper, envelopes, etc.
More sales = More profit
A Prof I had back in the day was previously a Big Shot EE at GE in the '70s.
He laid out a dishwasher schematic, specified with "110VAC" incandescent indicator bulbs, as was the general term of the day.
The underlings paniced. They only had 120VAC rated bulbs. They set up a production run of 110VAC bulbs.
It turns out 120VAC bulbs are designed to run at the 136VAC in ticky-tacky housing developements where the 'loaded' voltage of a neighborhood could vary widely. Almost unloaded at 10AM to almost overloaded at 5:30PM?
BUT (in EE talk) 110VAC bulbs are NOT designed for that much voltage.
After about 10 gazzillion dollars in waranty repairs, the big shot EE was a Prof at the university. Guessing thats a pay grade reduction or 2? LOL
I swear, the guy was dumb as a stump.
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(yes, I ignored power factor)
PS - Frackers,
In the analog cell days, I used to work a lot in the boonies.
There is an itersection with 2~3 cell towers by different companies.
At the intersection, there was NO signal!
(link is an experiment, mostly)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=1R2TSHB_en&biw=1210&bih=613&q=intersection+OF+528+and+oh+87&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
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well for the cell phone people here the forum police say i must start another topic so look for cell phone safety
i will start another as it is a letter from my local electric co but dose not pertain to smart meters
isaiah
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Yes ghurd I was talking about voltages considered in the "brownout" area 80 to that 108.. Though things may work, its not good.. At one time we saw that kind out power trouble on a regular basis, thankfully not any more and not for a long time.