Anotherpower.com Forum
Renewable Energy Questions/Discussion => Wind and Hydro => Topic started by: tomw on May 16, 2012, 09:46:06 am
-
Just wondering if anyone has the station profile templates for the common "Otherpower" blades?
I am realising I need to carve my own set and, while I have several of the DIY books, I cannot seem to find the station profile templates in them. I know I saw them once in a PDF or other computer file but cannot seem to locate it now.
Also, techniques seem to have improved from "the old days" enough that there may be easier methods to use. I do have a 12" Craftsman band saw but no wide blades that will track through a board straight enough to use that band saw method.
I need to carve 3 6 foot blades for a 12 foot turbine. Like this:
(http://pics.ww.com/d/407882-3/100_2340.JPG)
Who knows? Might get good at it and build a little cottage industry here in the stix.
Any help appreciated.
Tom
-
tom-
i can't help you with the station tables. i did my own off a blade calculator. have you ruled out the OZ chainsaw method? i never would've carved my own blades if it wasn't for the chainsaw route.
my offer still stands to rough out blanks for ya! it would take some time for wood drying reasons though...
adam
-
Tom,
I hope this is what you meant.
http://www.scoraigwind.com/download/windrotord.pdf
You should try the chainsaw method. I just finished a new set for a 10 footer. Cannot believe how fast and easy it was.
oztules is my hero!!!
It took longer for the paint to dry than it took to make the blades.
Ralph
-
tom-
i can't help you with the station tables. i did my own off a blade calculator. have you ruled out the OZ chainsaw method? i never would've carved my own blades if it wasn't for the chainsaw route.
my offer still stands to rough out blanks for ya! it would take some time for wood drying reasons though...
adam
Adam;
How long to dry? I could set up an enhanced solar drying area for that size wood pretty easy.
Any links to "how" they set up those chainsaw jigs?
Chainsaws I got in several sizes and I have thousands of hours running the things, to boot!
Been watching the youtube videos but none show how the jig is laid out just how to use it.
Thanks.
Tom
-
Found this link here on the forum in a post by oz.
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1194&PN=2 (http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1194&PN=2)
Have fun! ;)
-
Maybe oztules would be so kind to repost that guide here as well?
Possibly with any updates or new thoughts/ideas he might have discovered since?
-
Before you put blade to wood check out the sticky by Menalos (Max) in the wind section of fieldlines, with just a little change he has made blade carving a lot easier and faster.
-
I finally took my own general advice and Googled up the article Oz did over on The BackShed:
http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/ChainsawBlades.asp (http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/ChainsawBlades.asp)
I haven't digested it all but the basics are all there.
Big thanks to Oztules for the article and http://www.thebackshed.com (http://www.thebackshed.com) for putting it online.
Tom
-
See what happens when you "preview" then go do chores awhile before you hit "Post".. 8)
Tom
-
How long to dry? I could set up an enhanced solar drying area for that size wood pretty easy.
this may sound finicky, but this is how i like to do it.
*moisture leaving wood in a rapid time is what causes warping*
1) buy clear fir 2x3's from home depot at $1.63 a piece. i buy WAY more than i'll need, so i can weed out the bad boards as the process goes along.
2)cut the good parts out, and let them sit in shop for 2-3weeks.
3)resaw 2x3's into smaller straighter pieces, let sit in shop for another 2-3 weeks.
4)run all boards through plainer on all four sides to ensure flat and true.
5)let them sit in shop for another week.
6)pick out the blade stock and glue up one layer with gorilla glue. i like to make my blanks with two layers with offset joints. so say 5 boards wide on the bottom, and five boards wide on the top with half the width offset to get a staggered glue up.
7) glue up the top half.
8)individually run the top half glue up and the bottom half glue up through the plainer.
9)glue top and bottom half together with gorilla glue.
10) rough out with chainsaw.
as far as the chainsaw jigs, i just draw out each station full size to get the correct drop ect. for each station. then just add the offset for the chainsaw guides/slides (steel bolted to bar) and you can cut the sides of the jig with a jigsaw.
now if someone just had an unlimited stock of clear straight 3x10 redwood, this process would be soo much easier!
adam
-
Before you put blade to wood check out the sticky by Menalos (Max) in the wind section of fieldlines, with just a little change he has made blade carving a lot easier and faster.
Dale;
Well, fab, I think that is the bees knees as they say.
Less jig work, less cutting and hopefully something I can pull off.
I generally just skim the blade carving posts because I never figured I would do any myself. A manly tool like a Stihl chainsaw changes that compared to hacking with a spokeshave or draw knife and hand saws (none of which exist in my tool arsenal).
Thanks for the cluehammer blow.
Tom
-
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/birdhouseadam/turbine/DSCN0195.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/birdhouseadam/turbine/DSCN0198.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/birdhouseadam/turbine/DSCN0356.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/birdhouseadam/turbine/DSCN0912.jpg)
fiberglass is an easy option also...
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/birdhouseadam/turbine/DSCN0916.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/birdhouseadam/turbine/P6250290.jpg)
-
something like this can be kind of usefull for checking and setting up the stations.....
rough first version.....(the blade caculators also give the angles as well as the "drop" measurment
(http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo279/itch1niall/Picture_009.jpg)
i think oz,s were 3 degrees at the tip , 6 in the middle and whatever you,ve got left at the root ..(otherpower is the same i think ? )
-
I don't have a decent hand saw, or a spoke shave etc..... but I have a few chainsaws... and they work well enough for this type of thing.
Melonos has a good idea there, and is what I would try next time.... just change my jig to suit (still up in the shed I think).
It's nice to see a few other people have done the chainsaw method, and have been happy with the results. The real difference with their attempts and mine .... seems to be they did a nicer/better job than me.. :-[
It is the easiest way to make big blades that I can envisage for the least set up , and simplest equipment. .... even I can do it. :o
The blades made in the second section (update ) of the backshed article were for a very stiff alternator, and the more usual "dans" cord and thickness would better suit your alternator.
Best with it Tom.
..............oztules
edit..... and Niall, thats a good looking angle rig.... and best use yet for old cd's (I think thats the indicator material?).... I must make one next time.
-
i,m not sure Cold play might approve.....
that could be their first album on that mini disk....
just too much fun ... :)
-
Don't think about it to much, most of us just get to fussy get that chainsaw out and go for it when its close enough balance and fly it.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
these are 4 meter diameter
-
I just tried to post a long and detailed set of questions on my confusion on how to do the one side blade carving with a chainsaw.
Damned server ate it. No time to do it all again.
So a simple question:
How do I duplicate this process with a chainsaw:
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146535.0.html (http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146535.0.html)
The youtube video:
I am just not seeing how to set it up. How he gets his numbers is a mystery "from the book" which I may or may not have.
Thanks.
Tom
-
Tom,
I think for these purposes it is sobering to reflect on the difference between perfect and rough as..... and it is not much at all.
The blades you had originally were probably from the Dans stable of blades, and to this end they "got it" and went for sturdy and simple, and still gave very good service.
For the enthusiast, getting the blade calculator and doing it perfect is more for themselves and less for the power generation process. The furling on these things is woeful, and makes perfect blade carving a academic thing, rather than practical..... so.....
Firstly, get an idea of what Melonos is talking about with his single jig system. Once you have that in mind, maybe whittle a little 12 inch prop just to see it in real life....... like just sitting on the porch with the mutt, a stick and a whittling knife.
I depart from Melonos at this point. I would NOT cut out the blade shape (root to tip profile) as this limits your ability to fix the blank board in your jig.By all means draw it in in order to get an idea of where your end profile will be..... but cut the whole plank as one with the chain saw.... then cut the root to tip shape.
Now you have seen the result from whittling, you can see one side ( the lee side) will stay virtually flat, and we won't need to do anything with this side until later. Normally the windward side has a flat leading edge..... but this is opposite thinking with this method.
The windward side is what we now need a jig for.
Using the Dans idea, just draw a shape on the end grain (outer tip) with the profile of your blade.
Now we know from the video, the spine will be flat on the table/jig, and so ALL measurements will be from here. The thickest point will be spine, and it will be 1/3rd in from the leading edge.... whatever the chord is at any point.
We want the thickness to be about 1/8th the chord at any point, and that will be from the spine.
You want about 3 degrees for the end profile to drop, about 6 degrees halfway down, and whatever makes you feel good at the root. It will make no appreciable difference what you do here with an axial flux, as start torque is nil.
Doing this you can see the blade virtually describes itself at any point. The cord will dictate the thickness.... simple.
The chord is a simple tip to root area straight line.... and the degree angle is the only thing to make you think a abit, but this picture from Melonos
[attachimg=1]
says it all. Take it steady and try to fathom it, and it will come if necessary......
Draw the tip profile on the tip getting the 3 degrees offset, then do the same (on the end too) with the 6 degree mid point... simply get the midpoint from your "tip drawing of it's position) and place that offset at your halfway point.... and draw the line.... and down to the root as you please.... your done.
....throw the blade calculator down the toilet.... it's only for perfectionists, and will do little if any good at all. Matching the load a bit better will make much more difference, as will SOC of the bank etc..... it's no big deal.
If you mark this information on the sides of the blade blank, you will end up with really only one line on the leading and trailing edge of the blank... always referenced from the lee side which will remain flat on the table/jig.... THE SPINE TOUCHES THE TABLE ALL THE WAY ALONG..... ALWAYS.
Those two lines show where the timber will be removed. It will be on the windward side of that line on each side...... so we now only need to know what the blade depth of the chainsaw will be, and make two boards on the sides for the chainsaw to follow.... ie our jig.
If we now mark a line to reflect the offset that the blade arrangement will use.... thats where these rails/boards need to be.
Now you can see that the blade will travel on the jig board, and actually cut along the original line you marked.
It takes some mental gymnastics to get the hang of....... just like the gravity furling did... but the moment you do one, it all falls into place.
I know the purists will go bippy , but thats what will work. The next set you can get all purdy with perhaps.
..................oztules
-
Tom,
I am trying to put together a set of instructions for making the jigs. The weather is working against me. I need to take the
pictures outside and we are having high winds and rain. So it may be another day or two before I get the pictures done.
If you PM me I will try to explain whatever you need.
Ralph
-
Oz;
So, another question as this comes together in my tiny cerebral cortex:
If the root is of little to no importance in an axial dual rotor why have it 9 1/2" wide? The originals were 9.5" wide and 1.5" thick.
My root needs a mounting tang 6.5" wide and 10 inches long.
Wondering if I can just carve it from a 2X8 (7.25" wide) rather than a 2X10 (9.25" wide) if it will work well enough? I notice these axials are often spinning in winds lower than they need to actually push any amps so the wide root doesn't likely enter into the equation. But then there is the strength part?
Seems here any dimension lumber over 2X8 is only available in fir but lighter "white wood" is available up to 2X8. I know I am over thinking the plumbing but I have dreaded carving blades a long time.
Thanks for your input.
Tom
-
Tom,
All my 4 meter sets have been from sub 8x2 hacked from substandard radiata pine.
The strength is no problem.... if you don't try to make the root fancy.
For mine, I left the first 16 inches solid 8x2 (dressed a bit smaller), and did not try to make the root a next to zero thickness on the windward side.
I did the 3 degrees to 6 degrees half way and just ran the line straight. This leaves a huge amount of wood in the root area. Some folks try to bend the line down to virtually touch the bottom of the root area. Looks sexy, but means nothing of substance.
Leaving the line straight makes cutting easier as well, as there are no tight curves for the blade to follow. The electric chainsaws probably make an easier job of compound curves, as they are generally thinner.... but there is no tangable reason to make it fancy.
Niall, Imsmooth etc, all make much nicer more accurate blades than me I'm sure, but I doubt they could measure the difference in the real world, and Flux is of like opinion..... so I'm happy to agree with him.
You know mine have seen over 5kw, at fairly high rpm, and made from crappy pine, they still survived without a problem.
For your blades I feel 5" at the tip down to 8" at 16" out from the butt at the root will be simple and good. 3 deg to 6 deg at center point, and extrapolate to the 16" mark at the butt, will make a sturdy set of blades.... simple to mark out, the jig will be simply straight lines, and easy to cut with your chosen weapon.
Cheap wood will likely suffice. I would not spend money on the timber unnecessarily. My blades cost about 35 dollars for the three. 10 bucks for each plank of pine hacked out of the log.... and they were rubbish, but still easily strong enough..... check the knots out on this set. still fine years later.
[attachimg=1]
You simply don't need 10 inch timber at all... no useful purpose will be served turning it into planer shavings. The real power is the last 1/3 of the blade. 6 inch would work as well, but strength may come into it earlier, so better grade of timber if you go too skinny at the root.
The trick to carving blades is.......... just do it. It will all turn out ok in the end.
And if your desperate for chainsaw exercise, you can always hack your own planks out of your own logs like we did here:
[attachimg=2]
Then the timber is free and so are the blades (except for fuel and bar lube).
....................oztules
-
Tom ~ I can give you the dimensions for the blades you had...
or, there is a new blade which does not seem terribly correct in my mind, but designed by TodH from Bergey for this machine which seems to work well (probably better) and it's easier to carve.
Or, if you'll have me... maybe I can just bring you a set and help you w/the project.
-
Tom ~ I can give you the dimensions for the blades you had...
or, there is a new blade which does not seem terribly correct in my mind, but designed by TodH from Bergey for this machine which seems to work well (probably better) and it's easier to carve.
Or, if you'll have me... maybe I can just bring you a set and help you w/the project.
That's a very nice gesture Dan. ;)
-
Wondering if I can just carve it from a 2X8 (7.25" wide) rather than a 2X10 (9.25" wide) if it will work well enough?
It will work fine made of 2 x 8's. I'm carving this set out of pine 2 x 8's (standing alongside a GOE222 6.5 foot blade for comparison):
[attachimg=1]
The roots on these blades are 7" wide with 11 degree pitch. The tips are 3" wide with 2 degree pitch:
[attachimg=2]
I'm using a NACA 4412 profile
[attachimg=3]
I cut them to the taper I want, draw a line on the trailing edge side for the twist I want, then rough them out with a hand power planer:
[attachimg=4]
The belt sander does the final shaping and I get out the mic and check them to make sure I got the proper fatness in the airfoil. Then finish them with the orbital sander and by hand. The knots are no big deal. Any holes or imperfections I fix with BondoGlass or BondoHair. If I got a bad knot I rout it out and fill it with BondoGlass.
The blades in the photo are for a 11.5 foot (3.5 meter) rotor. They only weigh 3.7 lbs per blade with no sealer or paint on them.
--
Chris
-
Tom ~ I can give you the dimensions for the blades you had...
or, there is a new blade which does not seem terribly correct in my mind, but designed by TodH from Bergey for this machine which seems to work well (probably better) and it's easier to carve.
Or, if you'll have me... maybe I can just bring you a set and help you w/the project.
Dan;
Generous offer but I have to decline.
I have a bunch of members here helping me figure out a set and I will follow that course.
If you want to post the dimensions I am sure others will find them useful.
Even better, maybe you can share your experience with the blades you tested from Royal Fabrication? Some of us are going in a different direction than the simply scaled up designs you have been using. Chain drives, ferrite magnets and different blade designs. All information is welcome.
Thanks for offering.
Tom
-
Tom,
Sorry it took so long to get the instructions put together. I finally gave up on taking pictures and used drawings instead.
I hope this explains how to set up the jigs. If it is still confusing, let me know, so I can fix it.
http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,523.0.html
Ralph
-
Tom, I really think if you started carving a blade out of a 2 x 8 you'd find it's not that hard. The NACA airfoils are really easy because the windward side of the blades is flat. The other side is 12-15% of the chord for thickness at the hump. After rough shaping with a hand power planer a belt sander with 40 grit rips it down pretty fast, but not so fast that it takes too much off in one swipe and screws it up.
Even if you do screw one up, it's no big deal. Go get another $3.60 board and start over and use the first one for kindling in the wood stove :)
I'm also in the process of trying to figure out how to build a jig to carve blades with a router. I have this vision of a bed with clamps that holds a blade blank and a sled that runs on a set of rails on each side of the blade. The sled has a carrier on it to hold a router with rails on the carrier bent to the shape of the airfoil so as the router is moved back and forth over the blank it travels in the shape of the airfoil and carves the blade.
I'm thinking that 100 bucks worth of steel and two 12-packs of Bud Lite, and I should be able to figure it out. I'm using one of these hand carved blades as a pattern to try to figure out the shape of the rails, etc.. Once I get this outfit built I'm hoping I can whip out a 6 foot blade in 2-3 hours.
--
Chris
-
Thanks for all the replies from everyone.
Hopefully this is not prophetic but there was a vulture perched on the tower for the 12 footer this AM :o
(http://pics.ww.com/d/449882-1/100_5126.JPG)
Full size version here:
http://pics.ww.com/d/449882-1/100_5126.JPG (http://pics.ww.com/d/449882-1/100_5126.JPG)
Click the linked photo to expand it for detail.
Tom
-
"I'm also in the process of trying to figure out how to build a jig to carve blades with a router. I have this vision of a bed with clamps that holds a blade blank and a sled that runs on a set of rails on each side of the blade. The sled has a carrier on it to hold a router with rails on the carrier bent to the shape of the airfoil so as the router is moved back and forth over the blank it travels in the shape of the airfoil and carves the blade."
Exactly the same as the chain saw jig. Should only cost a few 3x1's.
I would still use the chainsaw for the bulk removal, and the router for the finishing. Router is too slow for bulk removal, and too messy. The chainsaw using the top of the blade to throw the detritus away from you is the ticket I think. ... good vision and no mess on yourself.
The router would take the place of the planer and most sanding.... except for the leading edge.
................oztules
-
I built the basic stand for it today:
[attachimg=1]
It will hold a 8 foot blank, plus I got 360 degree access around the entire area being carved. I put enough iron in the thing, and wide legs, so it don't move when working on a blade The beam under the blade blank is a piece of 1/2" wall tubing, and so are the upright pieces. Now all I have to do is build the rail attachment that holds the router.
--
Chris
-
Nice work Chris.
I had built a bed for a 3d table kind of like JAMS previous setup and most of the sliders, and worm drives setup..
But that's as far as I ever went on that project.
I got myself to involved in many other things to take the time to learn the rest of what I needed to know to finish.
Maybe someday..
I'll take some pics if i ever get it un-buried.
-
Lots of good ideas here I think.
I think that blades are really forgiving *you can do lots of stuff and itll probably work fine*
I've played only a little bit with royall fabrications and that stuff works great. (but it's hard to shut down by shorting that alternator in my experience and that's only based on 1 experience)
12 foot blades we've built in the past worked fine - perhaps not the most efficient but fine. (Tom... you get the award for first failure of that certain machine!)
Tod H from Bergey has suggested a bit of a compromise blade, easier to care and maybe more efficient.... I only watched it for a bit of time and have no data but it maybe good stuff, seems to work great. (seems, meaning..... no real data, only watching the machine and some intuition)
At any rate Tom, glad to try to help if you like.... mostly I'd just be a grunt in exchange for some good food and company and maybe I could bring some blades.
-
(Tom... you get the award for first failure of that certain machine!)
Certainly NOT a fault of the machine but the support structure failed. One turnbuckle bolt either broke or worked loose and the lifting side anchor guy attachment failed. No bolt, nut or pieces found with a magnetic search of the area but that doesn't mean much in the high weeds there so no good clues why there is no bolt in that connection now.
You don't have to work for your dinner here, just show up. Advance notice appreciated, so we can add some water to the soup, of course. :o
Tom
Tom
-
Still building on my blade carving machine. I got a movie now:
--
Chris
-
Wow its downright scary how much my rig looks like yours, only mine has a few more roller points and worm drive.
-
I guess I haven't seen yours.
Machining the airfoil guide cams for a NACA4412 is an interesting problem. I printed out a 1:1 scale image of the NACA4412 and plotted the curves of the cam required to get the router carrier to follow the airfoil shape at the router bit. I milled a cam out on the Bridgeport and the actual cam doesn't look anything like the airfoil shape. But it DOES work.
--
Chris
-
Kind of like cam grinder profile Chris? They sure don't look like the finished product either. End product
is all that counts though.
-
This is the new 3.5 meter rotor with blades made on my new machine for one of my (what was) 3.2 meter turbines. I was going to try to get the blades primed on this thing today and I never got to it.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
--
Chris
-
Those look great Chris.
Any video of it in action?
-
They look so good I commissioned a set for my twelve footer that got smashed.
:o ::)
Tom
-
No video yet. Not even any paint on my new blades yet (although I did get them primed last night about midnight). I'm building two sets of blades for another guy that wants some, TomW needs a set (his is next after that), and this morning I ended up with yet another set to build.
Ever heard the term "busier than a cat coverin' s&!t"?
I ordered some Clear Heart grade BC Western Red Cedar from Prestige Mills in British Columbia, Canada to make blades from. That stuff is supposed to be here on Friday. You don't even want to know what that stuff costs.
--
Chris
-
Way to go Chris ! You have at least another order and I'll be getting back with you on the details in an email soon. Like others, I can't wait to see these flying and logging "up time". Crank up the tunes and have fun making saw dust, beautiful work ! Dave B.
-
I applaud you Chris, Now that you have figured out how to carve blades, you have the whole package going.
You will be busier than that cat! It has been fun watching your progress over the years and now I'll bet you"ll
try and get back to the basics and offer the many that will come knocking an economical alternator, blade package.
You are already a household name to all with the wind addiction.
Thanks for such great entertainment over the years, I wish I had your energy to get things done.
(you'll love working with cedar and you'll be amazed at the power gain you'll get with the blades being so lite.)
Mike
-
Wind power has been one of my great passions since watching my grandpa's 6 foot Wincharger run as a kid.
Got the blades on the drying rack with fresh paint on them. I like this style blade - long and slender, reminds me of a Jacobs blade.
[attachimg=1]
Had to bolt a 1/4" x 1-1/2" piece of steel to the root of one blade to balance the rotor. In a couple days, after they dry good, I hope to get them on my turbine.
--
Chris
-
I managed to get those blades bolted on a couple days ago. They run as good as they look and got enough torque to cut the turbine in at 5 mph wind speed.
[attachimg=1]
--
Chris
-
Hey Chris, Just wondering what you think about the performance of your carved wood blades compared to the blades you are buying?? Is there much difference in overall output?? Just wondering,, Duff, Bio Diesel Man
-
It's better. Here's that 3.5 meter set running balls out at 400-450 rpm. I never thought it was possible to get 39 kWh from a 3.5 meter turbine in one day. But this thing did it yesterday. According to the Classic controller's logs it averaged 1,629 watts for 37 hours straight.
--
Chris
-
Chris, Thanks for the video and the quick reply about your wood home built blades. I am working on my turbine as time will allow.. Got the stator bracket cut out the other day and working on getting it mounted to the turbine body..Got to machine keyways in the generator shaft for the 20 1/2 inch magnet rotors and weld the claws on each magnet rotor..I hope this machine will produce 3 to 4KW average output in a 20 to 25 MPH wind.. Just experminting as I go.. Thanks again for your input and videos.. Duff Bio Diesel Man
-
Well, Chris set me up with a set of blades for this machine so I guess the topic drift is good.
Here they are in the shipping crate 72 inches long finished with automotive paint and clear coated:
(http://pics.ww.com/d/450589-1/100_5173.JPG)
Out of the crate:
(http://pics.ww.com/d/450592-1/100_5174.JPG)
Mocked up with clamps to mark bolt holes:
(http://pics.ww.com/d/450596-1/100_5175.JPG)
(http://pics.ww.com/d/450599-1/100_5176.JPG)
They measure 148 inches or 12 feet 4 inches diameter as shown.
Just what I have going on for replacement blades.
I have a stainless steel bowl that fits the hub pretty well and might put it on there for looks.
The head is mounted on the tower stub thanks to a couple brutes we hire for grunt work. I could not lift it and control it well enough to slip it on the stub. I tried and can move the thing but that is about it. Not only heavy but awkward with no real hand holds.
I just need to paint the tail and bore holes in the blades for bolts and balance it and I am ready to hoist it back into the air.
Tilting it up is a one man operation with the grip hoist and my "well planned" guy placement. ;D 8)
Tom
-
Almost celebration time. :)
-
You don't realize how much you miss the power until something goes wrong with a turbine, or controller, or something else that leaves you short. In the summer time it's not too bad. But I know in the winter when I lower a turbine because I'm swapping it out with a new design, or trying something new - it's like, get that thing back up and running - we need the power!!!!
--
Chris