Author Topic: guess who bought a power jack inverter  (Read 204143 times)

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Offline off the wall

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2015, 03:56:45 pm »
OTW, here you can see location of capacitor. It might be that is 2,2uF if you have latest inverter.

Thanks so much.

very helpful on the photo - C20 on the circuit diagram and behind it the current transformer. The board layout and circuit diagram are now starting to make sense.

I will try in due course to take photos of the different versions of the boards as  they might be helpful. I found that a couple of units made in November 2013 and before tended to blow their power transistors but the power boards since are reliable.

Presumably the purpose of C20 is purely noise suppression of any high frequency noise coming through the transformer? Presumably this is now suppressed by the new inductor in the primary side.  Or is it also partly as a noise suppression from any spikes being returned from connected equipment?

Something that I have wondered about these units is the absurd possibility of a common driver so that the gates of the power transistors might be driven by another unit so that outputs might be stackable . . . and the possibility of a master oscillator somewhere phase shifted to control two other units to achieve three phase . . .

Has anyone thought about this?

Increasingly there are applications for local minigrids and certainly the revelation that these units can work as such with connected grid tie inverters is a start, but perhaps one might go further . . .

Best wishes and many thanks

OTW

Offline brac321

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #136 on: January 14, 2015, 12:47:35 am »
If you remove C20, it should be replaced with (at least) "0,47 uF 400V X2"  cap.
I guess its function is a signal forming - to get a nice sinusoidal output ...

About idle current, you can get it even more down increasing inductance of your choke. On mine (PJ LF 8000 48 230v), current is around 0,37 A @ 40V and  0,30 A @ 60V DC, what is equal 14,5 - 18,5W. There are combinations with one or two EI cores and/or Toroidal ones. Yesterday I finally got a 101 x 65 x 15 mm Toroidal cores (something like yours). With 16 turns on, you are in a range of current above. With two of them and 10 turns - one core on each trany input, you can squeeze  even some 10 mA (cca 0,5W @ 48v) more.

It would be nice if we can get lower idle current, but it looks like this is the bottom for 8kW inverter.
Sorry for my English ... 

Mike

3666-0
OffGrid PV: 250w black mono solar panels 6kW, 3x MorningStar MPPT 60, Oerlikon battery bank 650 Ah @ 48v, modified PJ LF-8000, DC-DC converters, etc.

Offline frackers

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #137 on: January 14, 2015, 02:32:47 am »
I'd be very interested in the list of mods 1-6 that are detailed in your graph. Looks very interesting...
Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #138 on: January 14, 2015, 02:22:59 pm »
Frackers, did you end up with one of these?.... which one, and what have you done to it thus far... etc etc...
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline frackers

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2015, 11:36:51 pm »
Frackers, did you end up with one of these?.... which one, and what have you done to it thus far... etc etc...

Been out of work the last 3+ months so trying not to spend any money!!

Been concentrating on something to clean my walnuts http://gilks.ath.cx/gallery/index.php/Nuts/IMG_3410 when the harvest comes along in April/May (expecting over 250kg this year). The drum gets galvanised on Monday, then its making a frame to carry it (using an old trailer) and the drive mechanism. Using 24v wheelchair motors and bilge pump, all controlled using 3 H-bridges driven off an Arduino Mega with the speed/direction set using rotary encoders rather than pots.

When things get back to normal after the summer hols, maybe there will some employment and I get more toys ;)
Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline the_duke

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #140 on: January 27, 2015, 11:21:54 am »
So I just purchased a 10000W PJ for use as a UPS for my small office. Price was great at $410 shipped. The unit arrived and looks perfect. Opened it up just to make sure I actually received what I ordered and everything looks good. Here is my issue. I have no idea how to make the battery charger function work. I plugged in the supplied power cord and I get nothing. I tried the switch on both settings. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Duke

Offline off the wall

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #141 on: January 27, 2015, 11:56:56 am »
So I just purchased a 10000W PJ for use as a UPS for my small office. Price was great at $410 shipped. The unit arrived and looks perfect. Opened it up just to make sure I actually received what I ordered and everything looks good. Here is my issue. I have no idea how to make the battery charger function work. I plugged in the supplied power cord and I get nothing. I tried the switch on both settings. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Duke

It's essential to turn the little knob to the setting for whatever batteries you have. Number 4 is fine for sealed lead acid that are normally used in UPS systems

Best wishes

OTW

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #142 on: January 27, 2015, 01:14:59 pm »
if it is working as an inverter normally, then check your battery switch position  ( read instruction manual for switch settings for your batteries ) switch to required setting.

when you plug in mains... providing your frequency and voltage from the source is within spec ( see manual.. it is pretty wide ) the unit will find it and proceed to bypass and charge.

.............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline the_duke

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #143 on: January 27, 2015, 04:12:32 pm »
In the manual it says it must have 220v in but the included power cord is for 110v. I'd like to just use the hard wire jack and wire it up to 220v but it is miss labeled and i don't want to make the magic smoke come out.

3692-0

Offline the_duke

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #144 on: January 27, 2015, 04:16:24 pm »
By the way PowerJack should be paying you royalties. Seems they make a good product (the LF series anyway) but their language barrier issues cause them problems.

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #145 on: January 27, 2015, 07:39:00 pm »
"By the way PowerJack should be paying you royalties. Seems they make a good product (the LF series anyway) but their language barrier issues cause them problems. "

Hi Duke, I only want their control boards, and that power card you have in the bigger units... twice the cooling than the 8000w and less.
Beyond that I replace the rest of it......., but they are better than the other W7 transformers for idle.... for sheer power without fiddling, the W7 is a lot better, but weighs 50kg. The weight is good, but the transformers are lossy and leaky. They will use 5kwh per day for nothing.... They share the same basic control and power boards. Different/higher/realistic current  programming for the W7 to match their very chunky transformers. Can do the same in the PJ by bypassing some of the current around the CT.

Their LF series are basically very good, but their QC is wicked...poor, and the power claims are pretty silly unless you re- transform. The electronics are good, the trannyies are good, but under sized for the claimed output..... they will do it, but continuous to them is 12 seconds after about 5-6kw for yours I suspect. Their surge is very impressive too ... start anything.. very good.

But if they put all the bits in there, and tighten everything up, they should give many years of service, as they are inherently sound beyond their QC..... it would help if they didn't make every one different too.

The AC input goes to the front end of the board, and from there by relay to the switching system. From what I can read there, they want 220v input. I suspect they use transformers in series, and so give you two 110v outputs, independent from each other but for the centertaps.

If the AC is wrong, it just wont sync to it, and so nothing SHOULD happen.....( you Americans and split phase systems amuse me )..... so I think it is just a 220v unit with split outputs.

I would hook up 220v into the terminal block, and ignore the IEC socket.

I am very iffy at recommending these things as a charger, but that is what you bought it for.... but gee I worry about the change over from charge/bypass to inverter mode. It may be my transformers are too tight for it to handle the input surges.....

These things are not perfect, but incredible value for the money... particularly if you want to play with them.... the worst that can happen is a new pair of boards from ebay for less than $200..... It's in your court. If you contact the seller, they may help you to get iti right first time... they are usually very helpful.... and when it all goes wrong, they will probably help there too.

Pics of the insides would be nice to see too Duke.

Ross, for a cheap backup unit for you I would recommend the W7 6000/18000w unit. When you get all the panels up, you won't notice the 5KWH/day, and you will need to push every bit as hard as your selectronic to bother it at all... it has animal grunt...... but expensive on the idle... and nothing you can do about it other than retransforming it.... it ups's very well as the leakage stops the surge currents on change back to invert.


........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline the_duke

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #146 on: January 28, 2015, 09:30:05 am »
The seller did respond to me finally and told me to hook up 220v to the terminal strip. My issue is that it is not labeled properly to attach 220v split phase. Going to hook it up later today.

Here are the internal pics:

3694-0

3696-1

3698-2

3700-3

3702-4

3704-5

Offline the_duke

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #147 on: January 28, 2015, 01:18:35 pm »
Well I wired it up to 220v split phase and it works! Capacity should be good for my application. It will be power backup to a small office. 3 pc's, a server, couple of printers, and a multi-line phone system. Also 6 florescent light fixtures but I might split those out of the breaker box. We don't have our battery setup yet. We are just running it off of a couple of old batteries for testing. Haven't tested the UPS function yet. I will cut the power later today once the batteries have a good charge and hopefully it doesn't blow up. If it does I guess I will be having a conversation with the seller. Thanks for all your help!

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #148 on: January 28, 2015, 04:06:14 pm »
You've got the proper big  electronic boards... same as mine, although mine has all the electro's ( 15kw version )
Transformers combined for possible 5- 6kw... ( two of their "5kw" units), although they are well cooled, may do more than that. The electronics will do easy 10kw ( with current mod). That cooling is very good.

That thing will easily run a decent off grid house... not just an office. I see they are doing a bit of filtering too.

Over here  you would not buy a 3kw torroid  transformer for that money.  Those bigger power boards really are good..... luv em.

The markings are for Europe and Aust ie N and L and E on the INPUT terminal block..... but L and N are just your 220v live "ends" of your split phase. So your two Live's from your split phase go to the unit's L and N  inputs. The normal neutral in your grid will not be connected to the unit at all

I am guessing it will send the 220v  straight through to the transformers outputs of the unit. However, it will still turn up at the two white power points as 2 x110v. The two Live input wires will appear at one of each of them  there, and a new neutral will be created to both via the auto transformer effect of the secondary's of the trannies.

Change over from inverter to straight through has never been a problem..... it snycs perfectly.... it is getting back to inverter when the grid drops off.... in all their blurb I have, they want the unit turned of while grid is dropped,........... then they advertise the ups function???..... and I don't know what to think any more...

It will certainly be a fine inverter, but may need more filter to get the idle down..... as a ups.... let us know please.

............oztules


Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline the_duke

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #149 on: January 28, 2015, 04:24:16 pm »
Tested the UPS function and it worked perfectly. Cut the power and then turned it back on no issues. Only issue is the batteries I was using for the test. They are crap. I will actually install it in the next few weeks with some fresh batteries. For the price ($410 shipped) I think this will be perfect for what we are using it for.

On a side note I'm thinking about installing A PJ in my 5th wheel camper and making a 12v generator from and alternator. I have a 120amp VW alternator sitting around doing nothing. How hard would it be to make a circuit to auto start my 12v generator based on battery voltage?

Thanks again for all your help.