Author Topic: a little gem  (Read 21643 times)

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Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 06:04:33 pm »
Hi Bill,
  There are still deals out there but really even spending a little
more for them now sure beats what you have to do to make an
axial flux machine not to mention buying the neo magnets now. :o

I'm using two trace c-40's in dump mode to take care of the batteries.
My tower top stub is 3" pipe.  Good luck with the motor search! :D

If you find one and you aren't sure about it just email me and I'll
help if I can.


Artv,
These motors are mainly used for robots
or milling machines. Look for 3 phase
permanent magnet on the label.
Yes there are pictures of the guts.
I took one apart once and took
pictures of the skewed magnets.
I'll see if I can find them again.

Thanks for your replies.

Mike

Offline bvan1941

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2012, 11:52:14 am »
Mike,
have found a Yaskawa Servo on ebay (Item # 140548697813) listed with the following characteristics. I think the magnets might not be Neos and weighs a bit but, to my mind has the fundemental requirements for a good WT. Thoughts, recommendations? Price now is $175-  I couldn't build an alternator for this amount with this power output.

Yaskawa Electric Crop. Ac Servo Motor
Type: USADEM-45-HG12
KW: 4.5
NM: 28.6
RPM: 1500
Amps: 28.7
Serial: 221757 002 -005
Date: 9212
 would like your experienced input.
Bill

Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2012, 12:53:26 pm »
Yes that one looks nice, a little pricey.
Maybe you can get it for less by making an offer?
15 volt and you will see 30 amps easy,
maybe even 60.  An easy way to get a nice weather
proof turbine.  Or keep looking, I can tell you got the bug! :)

Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2012, 01:24:05 pm »
Bill,  the one in the picture above, I am really impressed with its performance.
I got one that had a damaged connecting terminal for $50.

The yaskawa looks like a bigger motor though probably more powerful too.
It's hard to find data on motors that have been discontinued and replaced
with a newer model.

I think the neo's came in around 98 or so. Still I have a few with the older magnets also,
they are just bigger and heavier, more mass in the rotating armature so not as quick to
spin up but they work.

Mike

Offline bvan1941

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2012, 03:19:49 pm »
Mike,
Thanks for the quick reply. I want to get going ASAP. I have the one you sent me on my "wish list" too. Your pick looks like it may have neos in it.
Currently who knows may bid for both-LOL. I'm looking at using these for battery charging but, am thinking these two candidates would work out as 24 Volt alternators on a more efficient higher voltage efficient system overall. I am looking at possibly controlling the charging system eventually with a" Classic" Controller. Do you have any thoughts for immediate / long term thoughts for controllers without buying two different units? Of course it's with thoughts of using the Servos as alternators?
I have built a "yard-art" system with a treadmill motor and 32' tilt-up tower using 2.5" pipe, 6.5' PVC blades.  Watching 2.5 years now and learning from it. It was lots of fun and am definitely hooked ------LOL

I am thinking of using 4" pipe for my tilt up tower. I also have two different 40'  Rhone Towers I could use but I would have to build a tiltable base for those. I have not gotten  the model #'s for the Rhone towers. My average year around wind speed is not consistent here in Defuniak Springs, Fl.
I have usable wind from Fall through late Spring (10 20 mph). So this project is more a hobby than a requirement---LOL

any input to my thoughts would be greatly appreciated,
Bill

Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2012, 04:01:33 pm »
Hi Bill,

I think for going for 24 volt or higher you should look for higher voltage motors.
400 or 600 volt.  I just did a story on a 400 volt motor for charging a 24 volt battery.


For a controller, you are hooking the motor directly to the battery, with a 3 phase rectifier in line of course.
You need the controller to dump power it has nothing to do with the turbine.

You can even get a base on eBay for a rohn tower and then modify it.  I did that for my first one.
My next tower I got came with a base and I did the same mods to it to make it tilt.

Offline m12ax7

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2012, 04:32:13 pm »
Hello..

Just thought I'd mention that junk yards are a great place to shop for servo motors.    I believe that most servos are junked due to problems with their encoders,  which will not effect their ability/suitability for generating power.

Most all servos have two bulkhead electrical fittings,  one with "fewer" larger pins and the other connections "many"  smaller pins.   First check if the shaft spins by hand,  if it doesn't it probably has a brake and isn't the best candidate.   If the shaft does turn, simply take a coin and short any two OF THE LARGER PINS (random)  together and turn the shaft.  It should be much harder to turn, if not short two other pins and try again.
You should find all three of the THREE PHASE legs and shorting any two should cause the shaft to turn hard,  short all three and it will be VERY hard to spin which indicates that it's capable of generating power.    Checking the manufactures rating plate for rpm/voltage may be the best way to judge it's suitability for  your use. 

Also note that most all servo motors are NOT rated by horse power but by NM (newton meters)


Servos with brakes can be modified to work,  but it can be very tricky.

ax7

Offline bvan1941

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2012, 05:05:22 pm »
Mike & 12ax7,
Thanks for good info. Never thought about junkyards for servos, will look --you bet! Good info on quick "field" checks on servos too.
I also like the info on brakes, my thoughts too.
Mike, I will start looking for "base plates" as I go along on this project. Your advice on the >400 vac motors for 24 volt systems is locked in too.
(Gents I'm just recovering from cancer/numerous treatments within past month. Not complaining but have used the past 9 month period to read all projects here and "Field Lines-Forum," to decide on how I want to go forward on my project.)

Mike, I feel like a 10'-12' prop would drive the servos we discussed quite well----- thoughts or suggestions on type of airfoil?
Bill

Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2012, 06:31:30 pm »
Actually Bill in that size of a motor I have only gone as far as an 8' rotor.

It will depend on how stiff it is.  You will want to be able to stop it.

I was running a 10'er on a 9kw motor and it was pretty darn good
a great improvement from an 8'er for that motor ( my first one ).

The 4-5kw motors are pretty small.  I'm only trying to get 1000 watts
out of them max.  I guess when I get another tower up (A good distance
from the house) I may push the limits more.  I like a slow machine though
we're talking around100- 400 rpm.  Larger props are limited in speed.

So if you're thinking 10' to 12' rotor then somewhere in the 10kw servo
motor range.  It doesn't mean you can't try,  I try different motor- prop
combinations all the time.

I wish you good health in the future :)

Mike

 

Offline bvan1941

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2012, 02:46:42 pm »
Mike,
Went ahead and made $100 bid on the Yaskawa described on my first post to you yesterday. This morning, got a call from gent named Toshi/ (California engineering Co.). Didn't comment on my bid but, was interested in what I was building and what he could provide in future.
I related I was looking for 1500 rpm, 200(+) volts, higher wattage(+ 4KW). He said they have quite a lot of the newer servos with Neo magnets and would look around and call me back later today. Has many different brands there.
If this works out I will gladly pass tel. info/contacts along.
Bill

Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2012, 03:02:54 pm »
Wow that's way cool Bill!!

Maybe we could get some real expert advice on these!

Please keep up the good fight and get the word out,
I'm tired of trying.  Wish you well. :)

Mike

Offline klsmurf

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2012, 03:50:39 pm »
Hi Bill,

You can even get a base on eBay for a rohn tower and then modify it.  I did that for my first one.
My next tower I got came with a base and I did the same mods to it to make it tilt.


Mike, I will start looking for "base plates" as I go along on this project.



--Mod edit This image does not exist at the link provided could this be fixed,  uploaded here, or we could provide a gallery album--


If you can weld, you can always do something up yourself. This is what I've got for my Rohn 25G tilt up.

Hope the pic works, first post and all.

Kevin


"A man's got to know his limitations" ---- Harry Callahan

Offline bvan1941

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2012, 05:58:29 pm »
Kevin,
thanks for the pix of your base plate hinge. I will certainly try and copy your idea for mine when I get to raise the whole thing.

I looked at my two towers today and the first (40') looks exactly like your pix. the second one (30') has tubing the same size as the vertical legs but, they flattened the ends and welded them as the cross bracing. Each section is approx. 10' long.

I can weld and will certainly try copying your base plate version. Thank you,

Bill

Offline bvan1941

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 04:50:41 pm »
Well Gents,
Bought my first Servo !!
Not ideal, but for $40 it will give me enough to make an adequate 12 V charging unit and I can adapt the existing tower and 6' rotor
until I can do better. I think the Servo will need a larger Rotor ?
stats on the unit are:  Year 1987,  FANUC Model #10  2000rpm, 148Volts, 21 Amps,

Mike, I still have my eye on the unit you were describing but, can't find any technical data. will call the company first of week for more info. Have reread all your data again and I think I have a better "feel" for what's needed. Many thanks
 
"Got the Servo Bug--- I think it's terminal"
Bill

 

Offline 97fishmt

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Re: a little gem
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 06:05:11 pm »
Yep. 

An 8'er probably to get it moving and up to producing power.
It needs to be a fast one though. Although I have a few motors
that do really well with a 6'er on it comparable to your new motor.
But with carved cedar blades. ;)

Now it's time to start blade carving! :)  Or some of those blades
Chris uses.  I've tried them and they do work pretty good, not as
good as some of my carved blades in the same size, due to
weight compared to cedar.

They will last along time though.  I just bought the 13'er for my
big unit and the blades sure look nice! :)   I've done just about
everything for blades, but I guess you got to love making them.
 I'm being lazy lately. ::)

Good score on the motor, hope it works out.  I haven't had a
dud yet.

Have fun building and flying your new baby!

Mike