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The Corner Tavern. => Classifieds => Topic started by: Norm on August 07, 2012, 06:53:14 am

Title: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 07, 2012, 06:53:14 am
I would like to start replacing the cells in cordless drill pacs
I've already fixed one of mine (Craftsman 14.4v) and one of Tom's
both which seem to be sucessful will be undergoing test today to
be sure....like how many 1/2 inch holes I can drill thru the thickness
of a 2x4  before the voltage drops to a certain level (like 12 or 11 volts)
Stay tuned for results of this test....if you like the results and interested
in letting me fix one of your cordless drill paks contact me for details
by E-Mail.

Your only expense may only be shipping and handling.......
......so if interested .....just E-mail me?
Norm.

Title: Re: testing Replaced NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 08, 2012, 09:40:26 pm
Okay guys here are the results of that test....
I replaced the cells in my one of my 14.4 Craftsman cordless drill pac and charged it
as to normal max. about 16.2 and tried it out 17 3/4 inch holes in a hunk of 2x4
which seemed about like the performance I had when they were new.

Then next I tried Tom's Milwaukee drill pack also 14.4v but used my modified
drill with 4ft special cord and plug that hooks up to his drill pack....line voltage
drop ....well ...Yes! I could only drill 16 3/4 inch holes.


(http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21073&g2_serialNumber=2)
Notice the white cord going to the red pack and to the drill?
Norm.
Oh by the way when those batteries get down to 14.4 they are done
and ready for a recharge!
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: tomw on August 09, 2012, 08:57:41 am
Norm;

How do you think that new pack will react to the factory charger?

I guess the best thing to do is try it.

Can't wait to try it out and if it works I haver 2 or 3 more that are either flat out dead or so weak they are useless. Maybe I can find a way to allow more cells once I see how you did them. I have some PVC, Kydex and HDPE plastic I could maybe make an extender from that will stand up to the task.

Should work for my cordless drilling needs. I have a half inch corded drill for real jobs. Only got it about 18 months ago because the Milwaikees kept up with what I used a drill for other than the drill press until the batteries started dying. I also have one cable so I can hotwire them to a vehicle battery and then they are very powerful.

Weird reason I have 3 sets of that same drill. Bought one off FeeBay and when it showed up it was a lot of 3 sets. Seller did not want to pay return shipping so I kept them. And all the drills are still running fine 10 years later but only 2 of 6 batteries are still useable. The battery packs are not common and they want about $50 per so I haven't bought new ones. Rather invest in a more modern 18 volt setup with high tech batteries that are light and last long.

Thanks for the heads up.

Tom
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 10, 2012, 09:07:27 am
(http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21076&g2_serialNumber=2)
Here is how I adapted to charge your batt.
but sensor on your battery isn't what my smart charger wants
so it just slow charges and takes several hours to charge.
Can charge these at about 5 amps on regular 12 volt battery charger
but not safe have to watch very carefully .....guess maybe Ghurd's dump
controller would work with a battery charger.
My PedGen works but cuts in too late resulting in like pedaling downhill
would have to change to a higher ratio....
Well I've tried to make a sucess of this one so I'll charge it up real
good and hoping it works I'm always fearful I will goof up but I was more
meticulous than the last one ....I mean I really tried my best this time

and it seems to have paid off ....
Norm
will be sending it off in a couple of days....
charging it up and letting it set for a day...
Yours reads 15.3 mine reads 15.75 putting yours
on charge right now.....keep you posted.....today.
....Later  :)
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 16, 2012, 06:51:05 am
Here is how to replace the cells in a cordless battery pack.
(http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21062&g2_serialNumber=2)
First I check the voltage I usually charge about 10 in a series
string until each stack of 5 reaches 6.5
(http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21066&g2_serialNumber=2)
This is how they look prior to cutting them up as individual
cells.
(http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21067&g2_serialNumber=1)
Pulling apart to expose the connecting tab, the tab is cut in
half with scissors they are the then temporarily glued together
and then a small bridging tab is soldered across the gap.
(http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21069&g2_serialNumber=1)
Like this.
7 pairs required for an 18 volt pack.
This way leaves 1/2 tabs that you can solder connecting short
bridging tabs to later.
From here you can google plenty of links and u-tube videos on
how to replace cells.
I will continue with pics as I make up another replament cell pack.
Norm. 

 
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 16, 2012, 01:27:39 pm
Norm -

How cost effective is this to do? I'm assuming new cells, didn't see it mentioned specifically (or I missed it). Couldn't see doing this with used cells, a lot of work wasted if one of the cells decides it was only "faking" in the individual testing phase, particularly with high discharge rates.

I realize that replacement packs are retarded expensive when they are genuine, but I can't help but wonder if the savings on replacing the cells yields "profit" when you factor in your time.

And yes, one of the most predictable aspects of NiCd is the rapid fall off right at the nominal voltage. Another reason not to utilize used cells - a slight imbalance will amplify quickly and lead to cell reversal, which of course pretty much drives the final nail in the coffin for the pack.

Just an observation... ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: tomw on August 16, 2012, 01:31:52 pm
Steve;

I think he is still using "recycled" packs from Bruce S that are cycled out of service on medical equipment.

All perfectly good but they swap them at a specific time regardless of the condition.

I got some from Bruce long ago and they all tested and at or better than factory spec.

Just sayin...

Tom
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 16, 2012, 01:41:47 pm
(continuing)
[attachimg=1]
taking the cells and bundling them together
I used a rubber band to make this one.......
Marking around the cells on a piece of cardboard,
then using a utility knife I cut out a template so I
could fit the pairs in ....some go in right side up
and the next pair in line goes upside down.
[attachimg=2]
Now the next thing is to solder the other half of the
tabs that I have already soldered the first half.
I have previously checked each cell, but you should
triple check before soldering them together....
This is just a hobby and I am out to help as others
have helped me....the money for these kits is to handle
shipping cost only.and materials not including batteries

....the batteries for the time being are free until I run out
of spare batteries.
wishing all of you my best.....
much fun here in NE Ohio !
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 16, 2012, 01:45:13 pm
almost forgot....the red marks indicate the tabs connecting
the cells underneath....just in case you were wondering.....
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 16, 2012, 03:25:27 pm
Ahh, ok. Now that you mention it, I do remember stories of a rash of NiCds that were floating around with Bruce's name associated with them.

Can't beat free, so yup, you got me there. ;)

They are tough little critters, but in lengthy strings weird problems crop up in my experience. Of course, medical grade stuff is long known for its thorough and stringent testing. I remember a store that sold old surplus military and medical equipment. My strongest recollection was the fact that even if something was used for 5 years, sat in storage for another 5, and then made its way to this place and sat on the shelf for another 10, operation of gutted parts was invariably superior, and complete units were gold mines for way cheaper than you could ever expect to buy them elsewhere. This was pre-internet... Too bad they shut down, I loved that place.

Steve

Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Rover on August 16, 2012, 03:41:40 pm
Wouldn't have been Grand Junction in Virginia Beach would it ?

I use to love that place.

Rover
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 17, 2012, 04:22:10 am
LOL  ;D

I intentionally left the name out to see if you were a fellow "victim" of the place. Awesome, wasn't it? :)

My first visit to the place was a 4 hour adventure, as were the next 3 or 4. Even had a part time job there briefly, and still not sure I saw everything! LOL

My absolute favorite item of all time was the liposuction machine that sat toward the back on the right hand side for what seemed like eons. I know you had to have seen it, along with the sign hanging on it that said "For those do it yourselfers" LMFAO

I didn't have the pleasure of actually working with the proprietor (can't recall his name off hand), but regularly had conversations with him. After his health began to go downhill, his son took over. He didn't quite have the humor nor management skills his father did, and the place went under. Such a shame. I worked there as a "gadget kit builder", looking around the store to find things to put together. Didn't really work out really well, but I had fun with it. ;)

Anyway, my apologies Norm, didn't mean to jack your thread... The place was just so unique.

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 17, 2012, 08:38:57 am
That's okay Steve....brought back memories ....back in '51....(maybe back too far?)
Well anyhow was in the Navy and spent a lot of liberties in Norfolk area Virginia beach,
Oceanview......the Amusement park.
Years later I watched a movie where they demolished the park but worked it
into the plot as if it was a big accident....maybe you remember the movie?
I forgot the title.

Ever travel thru a town and wonder about the stories and people in it.....well you gave me one of them....Thanks !
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 17, 2012, 06:23:38 pm
Well that's cool...

Actually, I've never seen the movie, but I moved out here in '88, and that's one of the things I first remember seeing was the wooden coaster at the park as well as the ferris wheel. Not too long afterward (I want to say around '92 maybe?), they tore it down. Never actually had the chance to go and check it out before its demo, but would have loved to. Wooden coasters are getting more and more rare, and they have a certain majestic quality about them that the steel ones just can't touch, particularly as they get older.

Maybe its the fact that they add to the adrenaline factor by making you wonder if "this is the one that makes it all come down". Hahaha

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 17, 2012, 06:55:33 pm
Yeah wooden roller coasters there's something kinda hairy about
timbers creaking and popping as you climb to the top eh?
Norm.
Probably aabout '90 I was still working when the movie came out
I retired in '91
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: tomw on August 18, 2012, 01:20:38 pm
Norm;

Got the drill pack yesterday. Could not connect to anotherpower to post that but finally came back just a bit ago.

No chance to endurance test but work nice and torquey out of the bubble wrap!

Thanks.

Tom

Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 18, 2012, 01:45:00 pm
Was hoping you got it.....
so far so good hmmm?

anxious to hear about further test....(if they are good that is ) :)
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 19, 2012, 08:19:41 am
Norm;

How do you think that new pack will react to the factory charger?

I guess the best thing to do is try it.

Can't wait to try it out and if it works I haver 2 or 3 more that are either flat out dead or so weak they are useless. Maybe I can find a way to allow more cells once I see how you did them. I have some PVC, Kydex and HDPE plastic I could maybe make an extender from that will stand up to the task.

  Rather invest in a more modern 18 volt setup with high tech batteries that are light and last long.

Thanks for the heads up.

Tom

 (How do you think that new pack will react to the factory charger? )
That's one of the things that I'm wondering....I hooked the sensor up
in the same location. Wondering if they have replacement sensors?
like on flea-bay....I imagine that it is a thermistor that shuts the charger
off or onto trickle charge when it get too hot but it also has to know if
the voltage is too high or too low.... ?
                           *********
 (I have some PVC, Kydex and HDPE plastic I could maybe make an extender from that will stand up to the task.)
Ed (windstuffnow) mentioned one time that he used a combination consisting of
stuff that you could use to make a rubber like mold of the part you wanted to
make a duplicate of then poured in the liquid plastic to cast the part....

I'm working on making my own clones of the pacs that my 14.4 Craftsman drill
uses....I have ideas how it could be done for your Milwaukee too.
We could have unlimited packs for our use !
I'll post pictures in the near future......

Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 19, 2012, 08:45:50 am
Probably wont be much of an issue depending on how the charger terminates the charge. If it does it  solely by sensing NDV, there shouldn't be any issue. The only thing higher or lower capacity cells would cause is a change in charge time.

If it does it by timer, or a combination of timer/NDV and the cells are higher capacity than the originals, the pack might not reach full charge in a single pass.

The sensor should only be a thermistor, to terminate the charge either based solely on temperature (unlikely) or as a safety mechanism to terminate if things get too toasty.

Should be perfectly fine in most cases, provided the thermistor is roughly where it was originally, and any intermediate sense lines (if present at all) are connected between the cells identical to the original as well.

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 20, 2012, 09:44:37 am
On my 'smart charger' I fooled it by putting in
a thermistor from one of the battery packs that
Bruce sent me and it worked to some extent
the charger went to red light (fast charge) as i
remember it and I recall never quit,so I just shut it off Guess I could
put in a on off switch to connect the  thermistor
and shut it off when things got too warm could also
put in a timer and set it to a certain safe length of
time....

What I really need is an original sensor unfortunately
I threw the old ones away.....Hmmm
thanks for the input  Steve.
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 20, 2012, 11:27:43 am
Eeek... Yeah that could put you in a bind.

It would be one thing if this was all slow charge from the git go. The current would taper off and if everything was limited ok, there wouldn't be any chance of runaway, etc.

With fast charging however, runaway is a very real threat. Be careful with this, as it can have some pretty nasty consequences under the right circumstances. It appears that your cell insulation is cardboard of some kind, so the typical retail heat shrink splitting thing doesn't threaten inter-cell shorting. But damage to the cells and probably more notable, the case for the battery (deformation) can occur, the latter potentially rendering the pack useless.

A timer isn't necessarily a bad idea, and is better than nothing. It can still leave you with cells hotter than you really want if, for example, the pack is for whatever reason not fully discharged.

In my experience, manual cutoff as a sole charge termination method is a really bad idea. I have always ultimately ended up destroying the pack due to runaway, because lets face it, babysitting a pack waiting for it to hit temperature is like watching grass grow. Eventually boredom will turn into doing something else with the idea of "check on that in a few minutes". Invariably (with me at least), "Oh crap!" will come to your mind (if not your mouth), and you will return to the charging location only to find chernobyl has shown up for round 2. Sans nuclear hazards.

You are right, best bet is an original sensor, or at least knowing the spec of said sensor. They are not all created equal, but you know that already.

You'll find a solution, I'm sure.

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 20, 2012, 02:28:44 pm
Now don't panic, I was just thinking out loud.....actually I have been
satisfied with not having it run on fast charge....I just hook it up to one of the 14.4
batteries and when plugged in the green light goes on (slow trickle charge)
and takes about 12 hrs. or so to reach about 15 volts from there .

Oh for another thing I sometimes charge them with my pedgen no danger of
overcharge there I'd fall asleep and stop pedaling long before the cells got even
body tempature.
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 20, 2012, 10:33:53 pm
LOL I hear ya, just wanted to throw that out there just to be on the safe side. Fried too many myself to not warn someone else about it...  :o :-\

Slow charge is better anyway, the cells will accept the charge better, and your 2x4 might be all the more religious for it. ;)

Pedgen? Haha, you mean like manual human labor, to charge batteries? Why on earth would anyone do that?  ;D

Eh, who am I kidding. It would certainly do ME some good to make one, get on it, and make some juice with it. It's just that I'm a touch short on space at the moment... Hmmm, maybe next to the panel on the roof?

I get'll back to you on that... Hahaha

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: frackers on August 21, 2012, 12:02:50 am
Many years ago I got a matched set from a guy that had all the gear to make packs from boxes of 1000 Sanyo cells. Each cell would be charged and discharged at the C rate 5 times and the voltage tracked. The software he used would then match up cells so they were as close as possible. His top packs were used by the model car guys and a nominal 7.2 volt sub C cell pack and produced over 9.5 volts and could run 50 amps without a cell going reversed. He expected to get 2 packs like that per 1000 cells and so they were priced appropriately :) They were prized because the particular class of racing required that only a 6 pack of sub-C NiCd cells could be used.

I bought an average pack, 7.4 volts but good for 40 amps (i.e. 30C) and his tip for charging was to flatten the pack with a couple of car headlight bulbs to get down to a couple of volts and then change at 5C until there was a 10C temperature rise in the pack - job done!! Note that you can only do this with matched cells.

His rigs could cycle 80 cells simultaneously and as you can imagine the spare bedroom it was set up was pretty warm.

Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 21, 2012, 09:27:41 am
So right now I got a 14.4v pack consisting of 12 - 1.3 amp/hr NiCads
checking 2 in series at a time I was getting like .2 from each set of two
if I was lucky ....so I zap each set of 2 with a wall wart output 12 volts 800Ma.
then each set read close to 2 volts (nominal voltage 2.4) total voltage then was
11.92 target voltage will be 16.
Charging with this wall wart I figured about 3 watts. Not fast enough?
So then started charging with my 3 VW panels that are in series and
figured it is charging about 7 watts in the morning sun that is about 45 degrees
above the horizon (crude calculation) you experts please don't laugh I get by.....
with a little/lot of help from my friends....(you guys!)
took it off charge and now reads 16.45, each two cells in a series reads 2.74-2.76
I try to have it read 16.2 after disconnected with each set not varying more than
.02 from each other (equalized?) then I hook it to the drill and drill 16- 5/8 inch
holes in the side of a 2x4 bearing down on the drill and as fast as I can maybe
about 5 or 6 seconds per hole if it passes this test I figure they will last awhile?

Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 21, 2012, 10:54:49 am
From what I can gather the rate isn't so bad, but you might not be hitting full depending on just how fast you're putting the juice in.

A typical figure used with NiCd is 125% of nominal while charging, but the panel may struggle a little toward the end there. this figure however is dependent somewhat on the charge rate.

A 12V nominal panel ironically enough is pretty close to its peak power output near end of charge with a 14.4 nominal battery provided there is full sun. As long as its got the gonads to be able to push enough to hit that 125%, you should be able to reach full charge.

One of the more peculiar (and useful) aspects of NiCd (and NiMH to a lesser extent) is the phenomena of Negative Delta Voltage, or NDV. Put simply, it refers to the fact that when a cell is full, the voltage starts going down instead of continuing to rise like most other chemistries. This is only by a small amount, and is typically associated with a rise in temperature of the cell. The good smart chargers utilize both of these conditions to determine when to terminate charge.

At high rates without intervention, this results in thermal runaway. At low rates, the current doesn't rise enough to worry about it. Regardless of rate though, NDV is present, and on a 14.4 nominal pack, can be in the handful of tenths of a volt range. Higher rates (more accurately, higher cell temperatures) will result in a bit more, possibly as much as a whole volt. Smart chargers usually "discover" it in the early stages, and will either terminate at a preset drop, or start a timer that lets any weaker cells play catch up.

Hopefully this helps; the idea in giving you this info is so that rather than thinking inside or outside the box, you can think like the box. ;)

On the zapping, it works, with one caveat (that can ruin your day in an enclosed pack) - Zapping only gets rid of a portion of the dendrite(s) that are shorting the cell. Ultimately this means that while you've opened up the cell so it can charge, the "seed" is still there, and can creep up on you when the cell is near depletion. When you have a string of cells, it can be nearly impossible to "single out" the offending cell and clear the dendrite again. The more cells in the string, the harder it gets.

Frackers - As far as insane charge rates, not me. It shortens the lifespan of the cell, doesn't fully absorb the charge (up to 50% less absorption), and if not monitored VERY closely can result in not only failure of a cell, but potentially catastrophic failure. I don't recommend it.

Steve

Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 22, 2012, 09:40:09 pm
 Thanks for all the info Steve , sure glad I don't have to do this
for a living.....does make for a nice hobby tho'  :)

been doing too much thinking today time for a Tylenol    :)
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: WooferHound on August 23, 2012, 10:08:39 am
sure glad I don't have to do this
for a living.....does make for a nice hobby tho'  :)

You could be the only cordless drill battery rebuilder in the world. I think you could make a few dollars at it.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 23, 2012, 09:11:45 pm
No doubt about it I could make a few dollars right now I'm
just feeling my way around.....very cautious I want to make
sure any batteries I send are completely satisfactory....
Maybe you'd like to try a set Wooferhound ?
 Anyway on with some details....
for an 18 volt cordless they pay only about $6 for postage & handling
and they get 3 stacks (5 in a stack) and some ribbon linkage.
continuing from reply #4 and glancing briefly at #7 to see how
I arranged them at first but now do it this way basically .....
They are lettered A1& A2, B1&B2,C1&C2, etc.
 cutting the tabs between the pairs only
then next step taking one pair at a time cut the connecting
[attachimg=2]
ribbon with scissors and fold over and it looks like this
[attachimg=1]
after they are spliced back together.
after all 7 pairs are spliced back together they are turned
upside down and the first pair with the negative end in the
center and + toward the bottom, now next pair with a slight
gap (so you can see that it's the next pair) and the negative
close to the + of the first pair, same way with the next pair.
[attachimg=3]
when they are arranged just right they are bundled with a 
cable tie,
now the pairs are tabbed and soldered together.....plus to negative, plus to negative
etc.
[attachimg=4]
the bottom cell (negative) is the first of the second bundle,
on the second bundle  the top middle will be the positive
terminal.....
this is how the cells on this one particular brand of 18 volt is
arranged and of course others may differ.
Hope this is clear to every one....
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 23, 2012, 09:18:15 pm
Whoop....that last pair in the last picture should have been turned around
so the bottom cell would be with the positive end.....
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 25, 2012, 08:24:27 am
The pairs lined up to attach in series
[attachimg=1]
the pairs where the red jumper wires would
be connected (remember the pairs are connected
on the bottom)
[attachimg=2]
after the correct number of cells are hooked up
the jumper wires are flexible enough to put in
the container were the old cells used to be..........
[attachimg=3]
just to illustrate how much simpler it was
than trying to trace where the tabs would
go after the pairs were all bundled up.....
People....it is so simple to replace these
NiCad cells all that's needed is a little soldering
experience....
One person had asked if my cells all have tabs
that they could solder to.
"I've not had much luck trying to solder to NiCad
cells without the tin tabs", he remarked.
Now it doesn't take luck to solder directly to NiCads,
in my experience you need 3 things for sucess,
a clean surface for the solder to bond , a very light film
of flux with your finger tip, and enough heat to keep
the drop of solder hot enough as you put it in contact
with the NiCad's negative metal shell or the positive
metal tip.....all that's needed is that tiny drop of solder
transferring the heat to the metal surface without cooling
until it bonds which is instantly....leaving the soldering
tip in place any longer is unnecessary and damaging.
If you can do it and imediately put you finger tip
firmly without burning you have been sucessful.....the NiCad
Hasn't been damaged one little bit by the small amount
of heat.
Honestly!
Norm.



Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 25, 2012, 08:28:02 am
Oh by the way ....YES all my cells do have the metal tabs
to solder too ....I just mentioned this for people that have
tried to solder directly to a NiCad.....
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on August 26, 2012, 09:29:02 pm
Here is something like I test the cells initially.
26 5/8 inch holes thru a 3x1/2 board (not quite a 2x4)
that's from a 12volt nominal voltage 2.6 amp/hr NiCad
or .1 amp/hr per hole so I figure that's not too bad.
The voltage was 13.83 to start. After drilling the 26
holes, the voltage was down to 11.93 almost nominal
voltage and I have PedGened it back up to 13.40 in about
20 minutes....so things are coming along faily well.....
.[attachimg=1]
Norm.
Title: Charging NiCads safely with simple solar controller
Post by: Norm on August 29, 2012, 03:57:25 pm
So wanting my solar charger to stop charging, for example, a 18 cordless drill pack.
At a set voltage......
I figure the maximum voltage I want it to reach is 20.5 that would be a voltage
of 1.37 voltage per cell so in the morning about 9 or 10 I position the 3 in a series
Volkswagon panels toward the East and away from the sun enough that the charging
voltages reads 21 close enough.
Now the voltage should never go above that because as the sun travels west
the slant of the sun shining on the solar panels will produce less power.
Sounds simple enough ? Anyone see a flaw where it would overcharge the cell for
that day?
Norm.
Title: Re: Charging NiCads safely with simple solar controller
Post by: rossw on August 29, 2012, 08:46:02 pm
Anyone see a flaw where it would overcharge the cell for
that day?

You mean *apart* from the changes in cell output because of temperature, reflected light from unexpected sources (someone parking a car so it reflects on the panels, or bright white clouds etc), or the change in cell voltage due to reduction in output current, or the cat/dog/bear running past and knocking the panel over....

For $2 including shipping, something like http://tinyurl.com/cccqufe would let you set the upper voltage with confidence.
For a few dollars extra, something like http://tinyurl.com/9xvoo3u will also let you limit output current from 150-2000mA and have both boost and buck converters so it will operate from 5-30V in and give you 1.25 to 26 volts out... 
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on August 29, 2012, 09:06:12 pm
Just a quick note from my personal experiences with boost/buck modules. They're pretty inefficient. Somewhere in the range of 50% or so. Dissipate a lot of heat in the process. Not really of use on small panels, they soak up all the juice coming in just operating itself.

Buck converters are more small panel friendly, but below about 10W or so, and depending on voltage differential between input and output, there may or may not be anything to gain by using one. But, as Ross points out, regulation is a good idea, and a buck converter can definitely do it (with decent precision in most cases). Just be careful of thermal runaway if you're getting up to any serious charging currents. Its better to slightly undercharge than making them go thermal.

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on September 05, 2012, 09:36:18 pm
My son gave me an 18 volt cordless drill charger couple
of batteries borrowed the sensor taped it to one of Bruce's
18 volt NiCads the thing quick charges the battery when it reaches exactly
20.6 it gets pretty warm and drops to trickle charge....takes about 45 min.
half hour if it's not too low....perfect for my purposes !
Norm
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 06, 2012, 09:17:13 pm
That'll work then ;)

And the price is once again certainly right!

Rock on dude...

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on October 09, 2012, 07:44:38 am
That'll work then ;)

And the price is once again certainly right!

Rock on dude...

Steve
Well the 18 volt charger is history hooked it up wrong,
I seem to have a penchant for hooking things up backwards.

So until I get the 19.2  charger adapted to suit my needs, I
am satisfied with charging up 12 volt configurations with pedal
power or solar.  of course these 2 methods are closely monitored.
Norm :)
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: MadScientist267 on October 09, 2012, 09:22:40 am
You're not the only one Norm - I got a laptop that way once (ironically enough, just the charge circuit, the laptop itself still works)  :o

We all too easily forget about magic smoke... (see signature)  ;D

Steve
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on October 27, 2012, 04:12:50 pm
Great news for me ...just discovered that my 10 amp. battery
charger does a great job on my 12volt configured NiCads .
like if they are down to 11 volts running thru the amp meter
section of my HF multi tester it'll read like .6 amps and when
it gets to a certain voltage the charger drops down to .04 amps
and the batteries are just barely warm not as hot as when on a
fast charger.

I've charged 4 sets of 12 volts and it works every time.

Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: kurt on November 04, 2012, 02:38:09 pm
thank you Norm for rebuilding my battery packs. they charge properly with my factory charger and all that. work perfectly. i really appreciate it cannot thank you enough
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on November 04, 2012, 04:25:50 pm
Kurt,
You're quite welcome !
Glad to hear that they're alright.
Norm. :)
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: WooferHound on May 23, 2013, 06:26:58 pm
Hey norm
Can you possibly help me with this battery pack ?

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: Norm on May 23, 2013, 07:25:15 pm
Yeah looks a lot like the 14.4 and the 18v and 19.2.....inside probably
is similar but with only 6 cells  (6x1.2=7.2)take the top off and a pic
of the guts and we'll take it from there....should be a simple job.
Norm.
Title: Re: Replacing NiCad cells in cordless drill pac
Post by: WooferHound on May 23, 2013, 07:59:43 pm
Here it is taken apart[attachimg=1]