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Project Journals => User Journals => Steve => Topic started by: MadScientist267 on September 15, 2014, 10:43:55 pm

Title: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 15, 2014, 10:43:55 pm
I thought maybe this one would get squeezed into the main story somehow, but both it and the "power board" seem to be worthy of their own entries... Building an internal battery box for this has become much more than originally envisioned somehow, even though there has been no "feature creep" to speak of...  :o

The choice to go internal was a difficult one but is well in motion now, and the result is an aluminum angle reinforced 5/8" 5 ply wooden box that is slowly evolving into being what it needs to be...

[attachimg=1]

Here it is as it presently sits.. Not really much to look at... slopes up toward the hydrogen vent plumbing, and designed to stay together as much as a box with it's construction and intent may be able to in the event the unspeakable happens. More on that in a few. The lid will be removable for maintenance, and will incorporate a few tricks to assist with any aforementioned disaster, should one strike.

[attachimg=2]

Here's a shot illustrating the position and configuration of the hydrogen vent, as well as the allocation foam that will help keep the individual batteries in something resembling a uniform environment/configuration. Also visible is the interior angle that's bolted to the outer which forms the braces. The bottom is done in a manner very similar to the sides, although the *actual* bottom does not yet have any holes/bolts. This is mainly because the exact anchoring scheme isn't 100% figured out yet, but I'm pondering it rather intently.

Fair enough, no? Well, holding with the "let's keep it together no matter what" concept, there was a hurdle to be dealt with involving the lid. It needs to be able to be opened every couple months or so at the very least for water, and any other maintenance that may need to be performed. Yet, it needs to be able to contain an explosion...

I was originally thinking some kind of compression fit yet "breakable" design, so that if gases suddenly needed to escape, that's what would let go, allowing any spilled acid and shrapnel to be contained in the box (yes, I'm dealing with the concept that wood is porous and has small cracks at the joints as well, but for now...)

This wasn't really ideal for a few reasons... One, it left the lid vulnerable. There wasn't a dirt simple way to make it removable and reinforce it at the same time. Second, it involved trying to coordinate the tensioning devices so that they could absorb/relieve/mitigate the energy that would be present and pop open uniformly instead of buckling and/or peeling back like a banana. Third, any maintenance operation for any reason whatsoever meant resetting everything every time. I was prepared to deal with it until a more viable solution came from a conversation in IRC (thanks Addie!), which I adjusted slightly and came up with this:

[attachimg=3]

It's a self-resetting emergency vent valve made from a 3" toilet flange, a rubber ball, a 3" PVC cap, some eye bolts, and 4 springs. It's not quite complete as pictured in these shots, as I intend to have large zip ties act as travel stops (to keep it from breaking completely free and becoming it's own projectile) and likely some form of inverted bucket (with venting) to help trap any acid spray that may be present during a release.

Some more shots of it:

[attachimg=4]
The underbelly


[attachimg=5]
Close up of the underbelly


[attachimg=6]
Close up of the mating section

Whether or not this thing is truly capable of what it's designed to do is an unknown, and quite honestly, I hope it stays that way. I have no intentions of staging any tests for it to see how it actually performs. Responsible behavior or borderline criminally insane, I'll let you be the judge. But I don't have the funds to replace everything if it doesn't work, and quite frankly, don't have the nerves to do the test if I did. If anyone wants to build one and test it, by all means, but if you want to hear any results from me, let's just say you'd have to be one sick individual  :-X

Actual mounting location on the lid is still kinda up in the air... I'd like some feedback from you guys on what you think might be best. I can rule out a few locations simply due to space constraints - the "lower" half of the lid is pretty much out. I'd like to avoid using the sides as well (of the box, not the lid), although there may be some benefit I'm not currently seeing to putting it there. Original "on-paper" thinking was in the center, but then I got to pondering it, this might be the worst possible location - the center of the lid is likely to flex the most as is, and even though there is a reinforcement ring that goes behind the device on the inside and some adhesive involved, a hole is a hole and will only weaken things, regardless.

Thoughts?

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: Wolvenar on September 15, 2014, 11:08:14 pm
I think I would make a single rupture or better, a check valve type "restraint" system.
The springs holding the ball down to me would seem to invite additional problems.
Specifically, the springs just may be holding enough pressure on that ball, where the box may rupture first.

I would have something around the ball, so it would work more like a gravity check valve.

Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 16, 2014, 12:06:37 am
Phew I'd hope not. They're rated <1lb/ea working tension, and not very stressed at all. It doesn't take much pressure to open it, but without them it doesn't make a worthwhile seal.

I was having trouble at first finding what I considered a good match in terms of ball and flange (in fact what you see above is the result of hours of hunting, fiddling, and pondering, and only like a half hour of construction/assembly)... The ball I finally came up with is just soft enough that it seals well (passes water/gravity test), but hard enough it doesn't stick in the seat.

I suppose I could do some static tests possibly, with things like weight and vacuum etc, to test where the seal breaks, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's somewhere in the fraction of a PSI range based on the pressure it takes from a thumb etc. I do worry that maybe it can't open far enough tho, which could of course cause an identical issue. At least the version presented is using 3" pipe and not the 2" parts I was originally playing with.
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 16, 2014, 11:43:08 pm
I did some tweaking today on it, mainly on the springs... gave them a little bit of a workout, slightly stretching them. I didn't have any more slack I could give them without running out of eye bolt. After the stretching, I actually had a little extra slack in the bolts, so I tightened them up to the point where it just closes, then one more turn on each nut (1/4-20 hardware).

It now doesn't completely seal on its own, due to minor imperfections in the flange that I wasn't able to get completely out, but a light thump on the cap will cause it to finish seating, and picking it up by the cap opens it just shy of half an inch under the weight of the rest of it. VERY little pressure on the ball with a finger will readily open it, so it's about as close to a "gravity powered" check valve as it can really get, and honestly I may tinker with it some more to get it a little tighter. If it doesn't hold the hydrogen back, I might as well leave the ball out of it.

Positioning was scrutinized today as well... unfortunately, there's only one suitable location for it, just above center "vertically" on the lid. It wouldn't operate properly now (due to the reduced spring tension) if it were anywhere but on top, and there's no clearance for it except for right where it's going, give or take an inch or two to the left or right. Doing so might even be worse than pointless, as it would place it more over top of one battery or another, potentially collecting more spray, yada.

I got the rest of the supplies today, should have this one just about in the bag either tomorrow or the next day.

Until then...
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: tomw on September 17, 2014, 08:05:06 am
Man you are making this complexicated..

Just build a proper sized airlock like  used for wine / beer making.

Simple goose neck with water in it can adjust relief pressure by the water columnheight. Or could use mineral oil.

Just my first pass. You are using a 10 megaton nuke to kill a flea here IMHO.

T
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 17, 2014, 11:59:42 pm
Tom - If it were stationary I'd find another way... but being mobile, yes, that complicates everything unfortunately. No liquids is one of my "rules" as well. The ball valve should work fine... probably will be installing it tomorrow.

One of my biggest things on this was to get away from all the shady crap going on in the van. Most of what's set up in there is scary as hell, I didn't want any "fear factor" with this, so while yes I'm overbuilding a few things, they're designed to take more than I'll ever be able to throw at them. The idea is to have simple, safe, rugged, low maintenance operation when it's all said and done so that I don't have to worry about anything. Water the batteries every so often and that's it.

These two projects (battery box and power board) are the most complex part of anything, with the wifi dome coming in as a solid third. Everything else is set to be as straightforward and simple as I possibly can get it.

More as it comes...

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on November 15, 2014, 10:12:38 pm
Little update...

Got into laying the floor as well as other things, and finally implemented some of the final versions of a few aspects with the battery box in the process.

First off, the ball idea was abandoned. I got paranoid about cutting such a large hole in the lid, thinking it might do more harm than good, so I've omitted it. I have plans for it elsewhere... I'll post about that when the time comes.  8)

With the floor laid, the hole was cut out of one solid sheet to help improve overall strength, as I have decided not to bolt the box itself down to the aluminum flooring, nor the batteries to anything inside it. It may not be the best design, but there will be some "doomsday devices" installed to help protect against shorting in the event of a collision. More on this later...

The hole:

[attachimg=1]

The lower majority of the box has been sealed with "flex rubber", which turned out to not be rubber at all, but a tar...

[attachimg=2]
(no, that's not warped wood, this camera has rather prominent fish-eye)  ::)

This briefly caused some panic as I was expecting everything to harden up and become inert. I feared the tar and foam may interact in a number of ways, notably the tar eating the foam, and any motion of the foam causing the seal to fail. After some thought, the idea of plastic sheeting came up... a few quick cuts later, problem solved...

[attachimg=3]

The foam blocks were then reinstalled...

[attachimg=4]

...and the batteries reconnected. Also at this time, the wimpy undersize, cut short #4 was replaced with 1/0 and new lugs, complete with sealing heat shrink. I came up short one lug, so the "B" pair is safely laying on either side of the installed string. Should have the missing lug here shortly.

[attachimg=5]

There are three remaining things to do before the battery bank can be considered complete. Drilling the hole for the hydrogen vent, applying the seal to the lid/box interface, and securing the box to the wood floor using angle brackets in one form or another. This will be one of the last things done, as it will represent a relatively large impedance to any future disassembly/reassembly that may need to happen as construction continues (occurring a lot now that the weather is colder).

Here it is with the lid secured:

[attachimg=6]

More as it comes...

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: ZoNiE on November 17, 2014, 11:15:53 am
Steve, you may want to try "Spilling" some battery acid on a scrap of that foam to see what happens. Will it melt? Will it outgas some thing that may poison you? Will it just stink up the truck but not go away? Just a thought. If you already tested it, forgive me, I don't think I've wended my way through all of your posts yet.
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 09, 2015, 12:48:04 pm
I never did get around to testing that ZoNiE... I'm hoping it never happens of course, but that I can run like hell after such an event. So far that's not the only thing I'd go after differently... LOL

There's another issue that wasn't exactly any kind of secret, but I wasn't really sure of the best way to deal with in this version, and that is cooling the batteries in summer. In the van I used a night-based opportunistic thing involving a differential thermostat and a fan that ran air over the batteries when the outside air was cooler at night (remember the heatsinks? LOL) and was reversible for winter so it could try and pull some of the heat from the day air. It worked reasonably well but there were aspects about it that presented problems for the truck design that I didn't have solutions for.

Enter a cool little toy that DaveW sent my way...

[attachimg=1]

Nice little 150W(Q) Peltier unit... By design it was supposed to be able to both heat and cool, automatically adjusting and changing modes etc as necessary to keep a small environmentally controlled chamber at a preset temp. Perfect!

There turned out to be some kind of issue either in the controller or in control of the fingers in control of the thermostat knob, as all I could get it to do was wide open cooling regardless of setting. The power connector was also unlike anything I had a match for, so the unit had to be slightly disassembled to see wiring to connect it. When the "problem" (whatever the cause) with the controller came about, I decided to just completely rebuild the unit and fine tune it physically for it's new purpose in life.

I completely disassembled it, cleaned everything thoroughly, and put it back together, slightly rearranged and with new modules. The disassembly was somewhat destructive, and even though the original modules were intact and still operational, they were not sealed by any means and condensation is a well known enemy to them. I had a box of brand new in the box 50W(Q) modules that were destined for the circular file until this project came up, so I figured why not...

[attachimg=2]

Here is the rebuilt module undergoing burn-in before final heatsink torquing, with a surrogate fan on the cold side.

It works well on the bench, but time will tell it's effectiveness in the box...

[attachimg=3]

Here it is in a test cover for the box made of some leftover 2" foam. As it sits, power input is between 30 and 40W (varies slightly with ambient and delta temps)... I'm not expecting much at this low of an input, but want to just get a feel for how what I observed on the bench translates to the implement before I ramp up the juice.

I know everyone is asking "Why Peltier? They're SO inefficient!". You're absolutely correct, but this would be one of those niche applications for them where the inefficiency doesn't matter.

I'm still tossing pros and cons around for which one of two methods would work best for providing it's power... but regardless of which, it will be only using surplus solar in the summer that would have just been otherwise going to waste. Neither would operate solely on battery power at any time.

The two options on the table at present are:

1. One of the five PV strings can be switched away from the classic and directly feed the Peltier. This has the benefit of simplicity and a direct relationship between heat influx, charge source availability (which generates most of the heat that the batteries accumulate), and cooling power (Q). The primary drawback to this method is no temperature control, so the unit may cool more than necessary (which isn't really the biggest issue, the extra heat it dumps into an already thermally challenged living space becomes the primary concern once the batteries are at a modest temp).

2. Make a controller utilizing a hefty buck converter and control the input based on the battery temperature. This has the benefit of a potentially much more stable battery temperature, and would only load the room with as much heat as is necessary to keep the batteries at temp. The major drawback being complexity and reliability. The converter would be at the very upper edge of a homebrew "catch diode" type converter's practicality mark. PWM would be simpler, but introduces another concept that's detrimental to the longevity of Peltier modules.

So the question lives on... but for now, it needs to just run in different modes while being observed for performance.

So, until I know more...

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: rossw on July 09, 2015, 04:43:42 pm
1. One of the five PV strings can be switched away from the classic and directly feed the Peltier. This has the benefit of simplicity and a direct relationship between heat influx, charge source availability (which generates most of the heat that the batteries accumulate), and cooling power (Q). The primary drawback to this method is no temperature control, so the unit may cool more than necessary (which isn't really the biggest issue, the extra heat it dumps into an already thermally challenged living space becomes the primary concern once the batteries are at a modest temp).

IIRC, peltier junctions are HIGHLY sensitive to over-voltage, and a complete peltier device has a heap of parallel (or series-parallel) junctions. If you over-volt, some junctions fail, increasing the stress on the rest, which fail even faster. Can you say "cascade"?

If running it directly from a PV, I'd really want to see some sort of voltage limiting there...
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 09, 2015, 07:37:54 pm
Hopefully this is covered...

I'm thinking a single string of the smaller panels, totaling 100W on the label... Presently, the Peltier modules are wired in series, for 36V nominal. Datasheet gives 14.2V as the worst case minimum for a single module, rendering a 42.6V limit for the set @25C hot side (tolerable voltage goes up with this temp, 16.2V @ 50C etc)

The Voc of the string is ~44V, however there's inherent protection in the idea that they can't reach that voltage when connected because even Isc is only 3.16A for those panels, well within the limits of what the Peltiers are rated for (5.2A max).

Vmp for each panel is 17.4V, not that there would be any kind of MPPT involved, but even if it somehow magically finds itself at Pmax, there is a 36V nominal "module" being fed 34.8V at 2.87A (The Imp by label), yielding a maximum of 99.876W; each module capable of sinking 75W on their own, but only being fed ~33W each.

Moral of the story is, driving them at <50% handling capability, they should be ok... Yah? Hehe

http://tinyurl.com/pg3co3e   <-- Scrunched up URL for the direct module datasheet download, for sanity... if I'm missing anything of course I'd certainly want to know before I finalize...?

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 13, 2015, 03:50:24 am
Little update...

It is working, at least under test conditions... which admittedly is not really even comparable to how it'll actually be operating, but I needed to kill as many variables as I could so that expectations become a little more clear...

That said... ahem LOL

[attachimg=1]
The basic behavior... There are so many things that determine what comes up right here it's not even funny... There are 3 I have my sights on at the moment, with a couple others on the back burner. One is that the minimum cold side heatsink temp (Tc) is highly dependent on the temperature of the hot side (Th).

[attachimg=2]
It's not hard to see that I have the Peltier and the fridge sharing a little bit too much air... But this was partly a strategic move. Until I had data illustrating it's behavior, I needed to make sure that in the event I needed to set up dedicated vents, it would be much simpler with them closer together. Jury is still out on whether or not this will actually be warranted, tho rumor has it they're reaching a decision LOL

[attachimg=3]
The associated room air temps.

The second aspect I'm looking into is power vs cooling... There's a sweet spot in there to be had, tho nailing it down is somewhat dependent on everything else being set up as efficiently as possible first.

To this end, I'm in the process of getting 1/2" foam cut and placed inside on the walls and lid; the batteries are already sitting on a 2" buffer and spaced by more of the same.

It also involves efficiently coupling the batteries to the cold heatsink, which basically involves fan selection/position, internal shaping (rounding corners etc) and possibly even baffling to help balance the airflow around each battery. The latter probably will get the least attention as it requires much more time and data collection than is practical.

Third, this thing makes water! Duh...

Lots of water. Box sealing will only help so much, as there's an intentional "leak" leading to the outside (remember hydrogen?) ... So I'll be dealing with that sooner than later as well.

Anybody besides me ever notice they don't mention this stuff in the brochures? :o

More as it comes...

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: rossw on July 13, 2015, 04:11:19 am
The second aspect I'm looking into is power vs cooling... There's a sweet spot in there to be had, tho nailing it down is somewhat dependent on everything else being set up as efficiently as possible first.

Law of diminishing returns....The first 50% is easy...

Quote
Third, this thing makes water! Duh...
Lots of water.

Only if you cool below the dewpoint.
That's a bit of a double-edged sword too.
A simple and inexpensive humidity sensor might not be a bad idea, question is then, do you try to cool only to "about dewpoint" to minimise condensation, or do you try to get it as cool as you can on the spare power you have (and deal with the water)?!
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: rossw on July 13, 2015, 06:27:45 am
Not specifically to you, Steve.... more of an anecdote/warning/consideration for all of us!

You know how sometimes, we put an alarm on things that are important? Like a boiler over-temperature, or a low oil-level on a generator, or a hundred other things that are potentially dangerous or expensive if left unchecked?

Well, something I've (tried) to do for as long as I can remember, is to make "critical" systems somehow be checked from time to time. It paid off yesterday... the same alarm that goes off for genset low oil, high temperature, boiler over-temp, etc, etc, gets briefly tested each time the generator starts. It's just a 2-second constant tone - not an interrupted beeping like most of the other alarms are, but it's enough to enable us to regularly check the alarm operation.

Well, yesterday it made a couple of strangulated blurps and fell silent. It turns out a wire had failed due to vibration fatigue after 10 years (on the genset itself), which was trivial to fix - but the importance of checking it can't be understated. I may have never known it'd failed - and if we had a problem, I'd be oblivious to it until it was all too late....

So to those who (like me) have alarms on things, consider a regular "automatic" check that will just let you keep on knowing it's probably going to go off when you need it!
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: Wolvenar on July 13, 2015, 06:09:42 pm
Great advice Ross.
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 13, 2015, 08:21:18 pm
Certainly agreed. I haven't gotten to any "danger" alarms yet, I've been the eyes and ears so far in that arena... I do intend to put sanity checks in where possible however, yes. Thank you for the reminder ;)

Now for some pics to clarify how this physically manifests...

[attachimg=1]

Location of the Peltier unit in relation to the rest of the box



[attachimg=2]

Shot of the outside during mock up fitting



[attachimg=3]

Shot of the inside during mock up fitting



[attachimg=4]

Inside fan detail for live R&D



[attachimg=5]

Location of the aux probe to check supply air temp



[attachimg=6]

Location of aux probe for measuring box ambient/return air temp

More as it comes....

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 14, 2015, 03:38:50 am
A little more progress tonight...

[attachimg=1]

But first, can I offer anyone some water?



[attachimg=2]

The new fan assembly all tied in and ready to go... We'll see how this comes out...

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 14, 2015, 12:48:57 pm
I know someone is gonna lob a nuke at this, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway... :P

I think there's a general underestimation (or maybe misconception might be more accurate?) of the efficiency of a Peltier...

Looking at the curves in the datasheet, I'm gathering I'm pumping Q=~20W with a little over twice that going in with the present heatsink temps. I think I'd have to agree with the datasheet based on observations... The trick is keeping Th down as low as possible, and if that means driving it less, then that's what it takes. More accurately, the Th/Tc delta, but Tc isn't quite as "active" as Th is, so looking at it as Th is not outside of reasonable thought process under the conditions I'm observing.

I think this is going to be fine once I get the box insulation finished up... The overall tendency during charge will be that the Peltier is losing ground, but with the overabundance of PV, the charge should complete quickly in the conditions that cause the problem, and the Peltier will still be running well after going into float.

Still going to have to make a converter, as it definitely looks like finesse is preferred over brute force in this case, but regardless of how it's achieved, anything below a core temp of 35C under extended brutal conditions and I'll call it a success ;)

More as it comes, we now return you to your regularly scheduled life, already in progress. Windows users, please reboot before continuing ;D

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 14, 2015, 01:03:44 pm
For posterity -

[attachimg=1]

The new fan assembly is loading the cold sink at least as well as the original testing fan. The gap in the middle where the temp plummets was an unintentionally extended run to see what took place with the cold side fan shut down completely. I apologize... and be with the starving Pygmies down in New Guinea... but I haven't been into the laptop yet to see exactly where it bottomed out. Visual inspection indicated it did not get below freezing. Bad science, I know. Sue me ;D

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on July 16, 2015, 01:17:34 pm
How to knock a whole 1 degree C off the hot side in a pinch:

[attachimg=1]

I actually have a plan that should work much better than the present situation, involving a small cross flow blower and reversing the fridge compressor fan... get the air all flowing in a single direction, set up so that it the fresh air blower readily assists...

Until next time...

Steve
Title: Re: Truck battery box
Post by: MadScientist267 on September 19, 2015, 12:23:55 am
Well, it's a success, and as suspected, doesn't need nearly the juice that was first assumed, except for during bulk/absorb with high ambient temp. Before, they didn't stand a chance. Now, it does lose ground, and the temp does rise some, but indeed can pull the temp right back down to where it needs to be for the next round. It gets close on "solar" alone (as of this moment, the sun is still being simulated).

When the temp is still above the set threshold, it then goes into a trickle mode, pulling a small amount of power from the batteries themselves to meet the demand. I know someone reading this is facepalming right about now... Peltier? On battery? Yep. It's not as bad as one might think...

Soon I'll put up real graphs using real solar for charge and cooling, and even tho the ambient temps are beginning to drop back down again as fall approaches, it'll still be clear that it can and does keep up with minimal stress on the batteries. If for some reason I can't get a nice hot day and uncomfortable evening captured, I do have some artificial sun graphs captured that illustrate it readily. I'd throw them in right here but I'd have to dig a bit for the best candidate. In due time, friends.

For this post, I'm going to concentrate on the nightmare that came of developing the controller for the Peltier unit, and hopefully ditch some gotchas for anyone else that wants to take this on as a viable solution to battery temperature management. It's worth the effort in the end... but ermahgerd... LOL

[attachimg=1]

First go round involved what I thought would be a relatively simple discrete component design using a single transistor as the amplifying element. It "worked" but was very flaky. It turned out that the transistor was sensitive enough to the ambient room temp that it would self adjust the target temperature as things began to warm up in the morning, effectively causing it to have to "wake up"...

[attachimg=2]

Here you can see that the cooling wasn't even beginning until well into the day (days 15 and 16 capture the issue). This just wasn't any good. It still had a lot of work to do long after charging was complete and the "sun had gone down". I fought with this design for quite some time looking for a way to compensate for the temperature stability, to no avail. I suppose there's a way, but I was more determined to make it fundamentally stable rather than hacking in extra bits to make it right.

The only way this was going to happen was to get the "transistor" temperature compensated from the gitgo, and the only practical way to do that was to use an IC op amp that had all that built in.

[attachimg=3]

Things got messy. Quick. To complicate matters, I was trying to use two different buck converters to run this thing; one for solar, the other for running on battery. But, it was something the LM324 could handle, right? There's 4 amps on the chip, no problem.

[attachimg=4]

Breadboarding is always a joy, and this was no exception... Sorry, I can't type that with a straight face...

So, some SPICE modeling (electronics simulation software), and basic ideas all working in theory, but as anyone knows that has played with sims, they have to be taken with a grain of salt. This one didn't do too bad actually, given the complexity; real world wasn't too far off from what the screen said for a change. But there inevitably were more gotchas.

[attachimg=5]

One of the first simulations for this controller

The biggest problem off the bat with this design was the dual buck concept. In theory they just seamlessly take over from one to the other as availability/demand allows/dictates, and all is well, right? Well for whatever reason, there was a hysteresis-like effect that took place whenever the gain control that brought the two into alignment got close to the threshold. All of a sudden, the output would swing full tilt, and the pots had to be spun back a good ways to once again get the output to change, at which point everything had been driven out of whack and the output went straight to zero. Lather, rinse, repeat... there wasn't any getting around it.

I finally gave in and removed the low power (battery) buck converter and decided to try and drive the whole show with the high power converter instead. This has pros and cons over the dual design, but stability was pretty high up on my list; the lower output when running on battery was of less concern (and as it turns out, not a big deal at all - more on that when I get to the "real" graphs in another update). The simplicity factor was also a real plus... not as much to keep track of.

[attachimg=6]

The controller after graduating from bread to proto. Much neater, no? :)

[attachimg=7]

... and what it looks like on paper.

I'm publishing that schematic under "use it however you want" licensing... I don't care for lawyer lingo. Have at it.

I'll say one thing about it... it's a touchy SOB that's difficult to get calibrated, and I wore out one of the cermet (trimmer) pots on the breadboard trying to do exactly that. All of the pots on the proto were installed from new stock - and good thing too - they've seen their share of tinkering, even though I halfway had a process down to tame the thing.

You'll notice by the schematic that it also does heat. It's particularly effective at this of course, since Peltier has horrific efficiency (I love it when I can play both sides of the fence and be right on both counts! LOL).

The trick to getting it to work is patience, finesse, OCD, and knowing how to get it back under control when it starts swinging wildly from too much gain ;D

[attachimg=8]

Here's a teaser showing off some of its ability... It doesn't auto-changeover, so there are dips and peaks here and there, but the tight regulation is obvious when it has something to work with. It has been turned off completely for about the last 24 hours (no charging occurred during this time either). You can see where just very recently power was reapplied). In the 4th plot (year), the reason this whole thing came about is apparent... and actually, this plot only displays the *averages* - the peak temps were much higher, well over 40C when I began to realize I had a serious problem on my hands. :o

As presently set, it will hold the temp within +/- 0.2C of 25C as long as it has somewhere to go with power input control. I'll get into that relationship more in the posts to come as well.

More as it comes...

Steve