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Seems to me, the definition of "net" is all borked up.

Using numbers just plucked out from somewhere above that seemed to stick... I fail to see what is net about paying shy of a nickel for what you overproduce, then hit you for near enough a quarter when you pull it back. Whatever the numbers are, if they're not equal, I don't call that net.

I guess my post here should be taken purely as editorial, because obviously I'm not going to be able to change the wording in the industry's dictionary... assuming they even have one... (I know it's referring to the kWh count and not the rates... and let's face it, they're out to make money... if they provide you with something useful in the process... "that's great"... ahem)

That said... I consider something "net" when it's "overbalanced but weighs equally"... a disc meter that spins the other way, qualifies in my book. Not this buy at one rate sell at another crap.

Might as well go back to a battery bank and give "profit" up to the intrinsic losses of local storage if that's how they roll it. At least you know physics isn't taking you for some kind of devious ride that way.

Sounds to me like trading a headache for nausea... Ridiculous.

I've been wrong before tho...

Carry on then...  ::) lol

</rant>
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Oztules / Re: testing the egs002 inverter board
« Last post by ss1 on April 20, 2017, 01:04:05 PM »
PCB's are here ... But not tested yet ...   8) I found a mistake like you see in the third pic. R22 goes directly to base of Q3
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Solar (heating or electric) / Re: Need some math help on system production..
« Last post by DJ on April 17, 2017, 10:25:06 AM »
I'm not sure the disparity in prices reflects the cost however, but remember also that there is a great deal of "gold plating" done.

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Gold Plating?
Seems to me like it's solid 24Ct!

While I agree logically there has to be a maintenance cost, That cost is nothing like the highway robbery Difference between the (here) .06c Kwh they give you for what you generate and the .30C they charge the guy next door or down the street for his " Green " energy that comes straight out of my panels.
The poles, wires insulators etc are going to last 20-30 years least they have in my street because I have been here longer than that and the ONLY one they ever worked on was across the street when a stolen car  hit and snapped in.  Took them barely 90 Min from the time the repair crew arrived till the time they drove off job done.

I take exception to being treated like an idiot when they say it's maintenance cost instead of being honest and calling it what it is, Profiteering.
I understand businesses are there to make money but it's one thing for an essential service to cry poor mouth, Always make out they are hard done by and blame their customers while at the same time continually posting record after tax profits.

They then want to go on about how green and environmentally friendly they are  while, like everyone else, gouging anyone silly enough to fall for it and milking it for all they are worth.
If they were fairdinkum about RE and all the rest them lie through their teeth about, they would give you Equal return on what you generate as a matter of course because all this maintenance would be paid for by the built in cost of what they sell.


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If you look at the energy market, as they get more "smart meters" out there, peoples time-of-use charging will probably get closer to the point of instantaneous-cost calculated. It is interesting to note that recently in parts of the USA, the wholesale price of electricity at certain times of the day was actually negative. Yes, they PAID you to take power.

Smart meters are nothing but yet another way of gouging the customer.
Does anyone REALLY think they would be spending ten of Millions on these things just to help their customers save money?
Please no one tell me you are that silly!
The ONLY reason they are investing in these things is so THEY can make more money and spin doctor it off as helping the customer.  What a load of Horse Ship!

If they were genuine about helping clients save money, they would be saying  " Off peak hot water costs 11c KWH to buy from us but we only pay you 6c KWH so make sure you get a timer that switches you hot water over to the day when you are generating solar power for nothing.
Anyone ever seen that from a power company? No.  Any why not? Because they aren't going to cut their own throat on making profit are they and who would expect them to?

So why do people believe they are installing smart meters?  ::)
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Wind and Hydro / Re: Wind Power News
« Last post by bj on April 17, 2017, 06:57:32 AM »
   Interesting, as always Woof.
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Solar (heating or electric) / Re: Need some math help on system production..
« Last post by Wolvenar on April 17, 2017, 12:32:39 AM »
Our cooperative will not give out the numbers without a ton of official documentation so I have not checked into it in some time, however..
The last I looked, the mark up was almost 300% from the initial wholesaler, and the various cooperatives. Of that they had a projection of a bit over half of this to be used in operation costs (wages insurances etc), some in future infrastructure investments, machinery etc. The rest are supposedly *eventually* distributed to the cooperative members as the profit share. Seems though there is something like a 20 year delay before anyone sees these on average. A large percentage will never see these payouts is my guess.
I was not allowed full access to everything of course as I wasn't willing to do the mountain of paperwork, and clearances etc they required to get more info. I could show up at more of the meetings I suppose and gleam some info from that but time is not something I ever have much of.

Our cooperative says its all for RE, but makes it almost impossible to interconnect.

I am in the process of rethinking/designing our system and looking for the much larger knowledge of those on this site.


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Wind and Hydro / Computers designing new types of magnets
« Last post by WooferHound on April 16, 2017, 04:32:15 PM »
Computers are designing and building magnetic materials with new properties
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-recipe-magnetic-materials.html
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Solar (heating or electric) / Re: Need some math help on system production..
« Last post by tomw on April 16, 2017, 08:36:43 AM »
RE people are just freeloaders on the grid.
I beg to differ!

a nearly $20K investment is a far cry from "free" anything.

The freeloaders are those that uncaringly waste energy gathered millions of years ago like it can last forever.

Takes all kinds to make a world.

Tom
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Solar (heating or electric) / Re: Need some math help on system production..
« Last post by eidolon on April 16, 2017, 07:28:25 AM »
There were concessions made years back to the environmental community when RE power was estimated to never amount to anything. Read an article recently where it was stated that the utility companies want solar panels to face west when they can actually use the power. At this time there is no incentive for people for people to face them that way.  Smart meters will change all that and cause the grid to balance out. RE people are just freeloaders on the grid.
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Solar (heating or electric) / Re: Need some math help on system production..
« Last post by rossw on April 15, 2017, 04:23:46 PM »
The power companies say the difference between import and export is because of whole sale rate and grid maintenance etc.  PIFFLE!  Costs nothing and wears nothing out to send the power from one house to next door where it is then purchased at the full tilt rate.
I think they should be paying you MORE for you power than theirs.

Well, to be honest there ARE ongoing costs. Not just preventative maintenance (like they used to do in the old days), but ongoing repairs which DO need to be done. Fuses blow, insulators fail, poles get termites, transformers burn out, isolators stop working, storms damage things. There is an on-going cost to maintaining the network.
I'm not sure the disparity in prices reflects the cost however, but remember also that there is a great deal of "gold plating" done. Power companies prices are based largely on their value, not the cost of supply, and their value is increased by the infrastructure they build, buy or otherwise acquire.

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As for the time of use, I think that's pretty spin doctored. While you are at work and not using any power at home, you are in the office or at the factory where the power IS being used and shiploads of it. I have a hard time believing that combined domestic use outstrips commercial use.  And again, even if it does, why are they paying less to the home owner when they generate power which is supplied locally and takes the heat of the power company?
Makes no sense.

If you look at the energy market, as they get more "smart meters" out there, peoples time-of-use charging will probably get closer to the point of instantaneous-cost calculated. It is interesting to note that recently in parts of the USA, the wholesale price of electricity at certain times of the day was actually negative. Yes, they PAID you to take power. There was an over-supply of power (or is that under-demand?). A few hours later, it was back to costing you money. There needs to be a significant overhaul of the whole power "industry" to bring supply and demand more into line, but I'm not sure how to achieve it. Massive-scale deployment of individual small-scale generation & storage plants (ie, most homes and businesses) might help.

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Solar (heating or electric) / Re: Need some math help on system production..
« Last post by rossw on April 15, 2017, 04:13:06 PM »
Or am I the nutbag who can't understand English?

No, he initially said one thing, then described exactly the opposite in examples, then done what he initially said.
His original examples are directly contradicting what he said and what it appears they do.

In your shoes, I think I'd print the email, run a highlighter over the examples, and take it to them along with your bill and say "please fix this".

If you're lucky, they'll do as per the example.
If you're unlucky, they'll put a line through the examples and say "Sorry, you were given the wrong information".
It's worth trying though.
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