Anotherpower.com Forum
Off Grid Living / Camping => Camping / Camp sites / Recreational Vehicles => Topic started by: Norm on July 03, 2012, 06:29:20 am
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Just read in the paper today that black bears are moving into
Ohio... so I think first off, not likely for me to encounter one
we don't go camping anymore.
If I did meet one I wouldn't be able to outrun it not at 35mph. !
Not allowed to harm or kill one.... big fine or jail time (endangered species)
( but thinking like some sportsmen.... BS shoot the SOB ! Right ?)
Personally ....thinking far out...If I were to talk about getting a gun
I don't think the wife would buy that story.....LOL
just a few thoughts for this morning.....
Norm.
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Norm,
You have not told us where the bears are coming from.
Why worry about bears. In Florida they have alligators - nasty horrible things - they are.
Just imagine if Tyrannosaurus Rex fronted up on your doorstep tomorrow morning. Your peashooter pistols would probably not make a dent on it.
The bears are probably looking for Ghurd!
Dave in HK
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Ghurd has the right to Bear Arms
(http://multiply.com/mu/whatmap/image/5N38X1I5fcWUtY74mVb4zg/photos/1M/300x300/5355/tumblr-m3w3liP3AC1r5g6tqo2-400.jpg?et=%2CSi%2CzHH%2CBtzNPtbVuQBGhw&nmid=0)
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Norm;
Simple strategy to avoid being eaten by a bear:
Just go out with someone YOU can outrun.
Or carry a small caliber pistol which won't stop the bear but will slow your companion when you shoot them in the knee.
Who says small caliber weapons are not much use, anyway?
Bottom line is you don't have to outrun the bear you just need to outrun any companions.
:D ;D :o
Personally, in bear country, I would be packing a large caliber magnum with good jacketed hollow points rounds in it. Oh, hell, who am I kidding? I do that anyway. :o
Tom
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This guy sure would have made a nice rug.
I saw him a couple weeks ago. I'm going to the
gun store today after talking with the woman, she's alright
with it now. I wish I would of got a better photo, it might have
given me more of an excuse to get a bigger gun.
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lots of bears around town these last few years--cops had to go in a shoot a few of them--took five shots to bring one little black bear down--no idea what kind of ammo they use... when im out hiking i also have noticed a lot of scat on the trails--more than normal..found a few remains of sheep as well..i carry a ruger 44mag with me
when im out and about...heres a shot i put in the local rag...just click on the right of the pic. to advance to the next one...might have to go throu a few to see mine..
just a few shots of sheep ive incountered...
http://www.adn.com/2008/06/18/v-gallery/440558/the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-anchorage.html#id=2517964&view=large_view
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@hiker;
Beautiful, wild country up there.
Thanks for the share.
@97fishmt;
I know I need fresh glasses but I can't seem to find a bear in that photo?
Tom
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Hi Tom,
I know... He's about 100 yards down the hill. That's why I sent the picture full sized.
If you click on the picture then click on it again it will magnify it and he is to the right of
the trees in the foreground further down the hill. Nice color for a black bear huh?
I went to the gun store and really don't know what I'm looking for. I want something
the missus can handle. The guy was showing me a .357 revolver but I think I would
like something with a clip so I could have extra clips with me for ease of reloading.
He sure was a cool site out my kitchen window. He was all the way down the hill when
I finally got the camera out and went over to the edge to get a picture of him.
Mike
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@97fishmt;
I would definitely NOT go below a .357 Magnum for bear proofing. That eliminates the .38 special, 9 mm, .380 and the like.
There is a semi auto called a .357 Sig which might qualify for that use but I have never even seen one let alone fired one. There is also the .40 cal in semi autos but I read mixed reviews on it for stopping power.
It is a bit of a large pistol in the full size versions but you can have plenty of stopping power in hand with a Colt 1911 or copy in .45 ACP. Plenty of punch, magazines easily carried to load on the run as it were. It might be a bit raw for a smaller person but it will definitely provide real firepower in hand. It Can use 7 to 10 plus round magazines depending on the version. If 7 doesn't stop whatever is after you, another 10 in a magazine may not matter. I always say it is not about the rounds available it is about placement. These are very common, simple, reasonably accurate, durable, battle proven and ammo is easily found because there are probably hundreds of thousands of them in use.
I prefer revolvers for woods carry for lots of reasons and have a big ole Colt Anaconda in .44 Mag and of I can't stop it with six from that thing at close range it likely can't be stopped by any common handgun. My wife refuses to fire it because it has a lot of recoil but a "full size" guy like me doesn't mind the kick.
Tom
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It still took me some time to find it on my cell on the big pic, so I am posting this for those without a big screen
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Finally spotted the bear in the pic 97fishmt was looking for a black bear
instead of a brown one.....very nice pics hiker1 really awesome !
thanks for the share guys !
Norm.
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G'day Guy's,
While looking thru Hikers pic's and yea there are some really nice scene pic's there are also a heap of goat pic's. As I was going thru each pic and saying nother goat nother goat the missus asked what I was looking at. When I told her pic's of alaska taken by the public her reply on the goats was well the women folks are in short numbers up there so.......
Anyway great pic's all the same and our young girls love the moose pic's.
Cheers Bryan
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While looking thru Hikers pic's ....
I was expecting you to warn them about our dropbears.
Looked to me like you'd need about a football team of those black bears to match one of our dropbears :)
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We do a lot of bear hunting here, the black bears are quite docile and afraid of people. We have even treed them with our horses while gathering cattle. My friend Jim is kind of crazy, he wants to rope one just to see what it will do, he thinks he and the horse will get chewed on but he is ok with that. He is the type of guy who will probably actually do it. We use mostly 30-30s, I also use my 454 casull pistol and carbine, but they are overkill. My girlfriend shot hers last year with a 243.
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Here is my bear from last year, he weighed 420lbs field dressed, I crawled on my belly into a brush thicket within 10 feet of him where the hounds had him bayed up. I shot at him and missed (hit a branch) and he almost ran me over leaving the brush, the dogs treed him a few hundred yards away, and I didn't miss again. He was an interesting bear, he was quite old and had been tagged in both ears, so he was a problem bear from somewhere relocated to our area. He had nothing but pears in his belly, and the dogs started him in a pear orchard. One of my friend who I hunt with has been bear hunting over 50 years and is a federal game tracker, and he has never caught a tagged bear before, so I decided he was special enough to make a rug from.
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I went to the gun store and really don't know what I'm looking for. I want something
the missus can handle. The guy was showing me a .357 revolver but I think I would
like something with a clip so I could have extra clips with me for ease of reloading.
Mike
I consider the .357 about as light as I would want for a bear pistol. I have an M58 S&W in .41Mag with a 4" barrel I would carry if I were in bear country. I might carry a .44Mag, as I have two, and one is a Titanium Taurus that is quite light and a real fun gun if you like recoil.
For bottom feeders, my minimum would be my 1911 in 10mm with hard cast bullets. In fact, that's ALL I would carry for bear in any pistol. I don't think the .45ACP is suitable for bear. I think I would want a lot more penetration for carnivorous creatures looking at me for a next meal.
I know of several women who weigh less than 120 pounds who shoot .44 Magnum revolvers with full bore loads quite accurately. If you take them to a range and want to shoot some .44 mag rounds, you had better shoot your rounds first or hide a box so you will have something to shoot. These little girls will run through free ammo quicker than a fraternity can go through a keg of beer!
Any automatic I carried would have to have been exceptionally reliable with the rounds I carried. Shooting at a charging bear would not be a time to have a malfunction drill.
As far as recoil goes ..... IF one had the opportunity to avoid being mauled by a large bear by perforating it with pistol projectiles, I doubt they would notice the recoil. I doubt they would count the number of rounds fired until well after their heart rate settled back down and maybe changed their pants.
Ron
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Any automatic I carried would have to have been exceptionally reliable with the rounds I carried. Shooting at a charging bear would not be a time to have a malfunction drill.
Yeah I remember watching a movie (fictional but basically fact) where on a lion hunt one of the
men had an untested weapon.....resulting in a couple of the natives mauled and killed by a
man eating lion, because his untested gun failed to fire.......
The leader of the team asked dumbfounded, "What ? You brought an untested gun with you? "
Point well taken !
Norm
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As far as recoil goes ..... IF one had the opportunity to avoid being mauled by a large bear by perforating it with pistol projectiles, I doubt they would notice the recoil. I doubt they would count the number of rounds fired until well after their heart rate settled back down and maybe changed their pants.
Ron
I have read that "post incident reports" tend to indicate most folks do not recall much of the sensation of even firing the weapon. No clear idea of how many rounds they popped off or other details. I am sure even a .454 Casul in a skinny six shooter would not even be felt at the time (by the shooter).
I find that revolvers "seem" more reliable but things can go wrong there, too, especially in the artillery size pistols. Things like bullet pull out jamming the cylinder from cycling the next round. Granted this is mostly a reloaders issue but can happen with factory full house loads.
I have seen what a 1911 in .45ACP can do to a man but not anything bigger. Considering 3 rounds passed completely through a magazine pack in front, the clothes, the body and the backpack with hard military ammo from a distance of 6 or 7 paces that it would penetrate deep into a large animal. When that happened I was walking point on a patrol, rounded a bend in the trail and I was surprised by an NVA soldier standing there reading a map and I happened to have the .45 in hand and to this day I swear I only fired one round but the evidence showed it was three in a pattern about as big as a pack of Luckys. In 1970 I was young, dumb and quick as a cat.
Ok, enough with the war stories.
I would prefer to avoid bear country on foot these days because I am slow and somewhat lacking in situational awareness. If it was necessary the .44 Magnum Colt Anaconda would be on my hip.
My choice for day to day proof against 2 legged predators is the 9MM in a shorty auto that has never had a failure since I got past the 200 round break in period and did the fluff n buff on it with good lubricants. It beats hell out of the web of my thumb at the range, but I doubt I would notice the kick in a life threatening situation.
Tom
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Norm and I are not too far appart in the grand scheeme of things.
One got hit on the road locally a week or so ago.
There are a few south east of Middlefield that are seen daily, but its not common knowlege as to where they are to keep the morons away, so I'm not posting exactly where they are.
Super Blackhawk and Super Redhawk can take .454-class loads if the loader knows what they are doing.
Nothing I want to mess with.
Lots of .454's for sale in perfect shape... only fired once.
Once was more than enough for me.
Super Blackhawk, if I was worried about black bears.
But having shot bear, I think 1911 in 45ACP would be adaquite in good hands.
I wonder if anybody makes a Contender barrel in .50BMG? ;)
G-
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Just sent my Raging bull 454 into the 'smith for a checkup, everything was well within spec, I have over 1000 rounds of 300gr XTP Mags @1750fps through it, and those are full 65k PSI loads. I love my 454.
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I wonder if anybody makes a Contender barrel in .50BMG? ;)
G-
Yeah, nothing like a dislocated shoulder(s) to make the critter go away.
I have fired a Ma Duece (M2 .50 BMG) on a ground mounted tripod and it beat hell out of me on a mount. I seriously doubt I would get past the first round from a Contender. The muzzle flare would singe the bear clean at 30 feet I bet.
This thing shoots sausage size cartridges @ 400 + rounds / minute. Budda Budda:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Cal50_Browning_2REI_2.jpg.JPG/800px-Cal50_Browning_2REI_2.jpg.JPG)
The cartridsge it fires the far left one :
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg/300px-Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg)
I blew the cylinder out and stretched the frame on a Ruger Super Blackhawk trying to build some artillery grade rounds for it. Happened to be wearing leather gloves so no real damage but my right hand felt like it had been hit with a sledge hammer. Got a fresh cylinder and only then realized the frame had stretched. Good money after bad.. Story of my life.
I am confident a .45 ACP in competent hands could kill anything on this continent. Not counting zoo critters like Cape Buffalo, Rhino but maybe an elephant, The .44 Magnum is even more capable. Anyone who wants to give away their 1911 in .45ACP because it is too wimpy for bear contact me and I will give you the shipping costs and my FFL guys address to send it to ;D
Tom
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Hi
I have shot a .44 mag and it was way more than I would like to carry around.
I really liked firing my neighbors M1. A 9mm is kind of where I'm at. Maybe a .40
I like the Sig.
I'm going to take the woman with me next time and that will decide what I come home
with, what fits in her hands.
Mike
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recent story -local rag-
http://www.adn.com/2012/07/14/2542234/woman-recounts-terrifying-ordeal.html
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Gotta love
"I wished I had a gun"
Losing the fear of man is deadly for the bear as well as any unarmed humans it encounters.. Seems they usually have to euthanize those bears eventually.
Tom
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heres another....eagle river is a small town-about 12 miles away from anchorage....
http://www.adn.com/2012/07/22/2551812/man-mauled-by-bear-on-eagle-river.html
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In the Alaskan tourist shops they sell these signs...
Something like:
Wear a 'bear bell' so the bear can hear you approach.
Watch for bear sign.
Black bear poop has berry seeds, feathers, and rodent hair in it.
Grizzly bear poop has 'bear bells' in it.
I am not afraid of black bear, within reason,
and actually ate a fish dinner below one in a tree watching us eat.
(have a pic, can't find it)
And took a nap on a 100' wide x half-mile long peninsulla in the QC bush, with one close by.
(woman I am still married to didn't get any sleep at the time)
Can find that pic, just before my nap, with a severely smashed toe and pain makes me sleep easier, FYI.
I got a hair cut since then, also FYI.
G-
(http://www.cathiehilston.com/Images/glen_quebec.jpg)
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http://explore.org/#!/live-cams/player/brown-bear-salmon-cam-brooks-falls
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In the Alaskan tourist shops they sell these signs...
Something like:
Wear a 'bear bell' so the bear can hear you approach.
Watch for bear sign.
Black bear poop has berry seeds, feathers, and rodent hair in it.
Grizzly bear poop has 'bear bells' in it.
I am not afraid of black bear, within reason,
and actually ate a fish dinner below one in a tree watching us eat.
(have a pic, can't find it)
And took a nap on a 100' wide x half-mile long peninsulla in the QC bush, with one close by.
(woman I am still married to didn't get any sleep at the time)
Can find that pic, just before my nap, with a severely smashed toe and pain makes me sleep easier, FYI.
I got a hair cut since then, also FYI.
G-
(http://www.cathiehilston.com/Images/glen_quebec.jpg)
If that is you Glen, I sure never would have thunk it.
Just not who I would have expected to see after reading your posts for years.
Hope the toes don't keep you up just before bad weather anymore.
And no, I don't have any idea of who I would have expected to see.
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Yes, Mister Hurd is one salty lookin dude!
I suspect there is a very red neck under that hippy hair!
Sorry, Glen, could not resist.
Tom
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(http://md.tgpsitecentral.com/pod/2012-07-17.jpg)
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Wouldn't take a lot of searching to find a worse pic than that of me. That one isn't too bad.
The difference between Ozzie and me is facial hair and drug test results.
Yee Haw!
G-
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and yet another.....lost count on how many people were chewed up this summer!
sad to say this guy lost his life...........
http://www.adn.com/2012/08/27/2601609/photos-scrutinized-in-alaska-bear.html
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Keep a 1/4 mile away ?......too close for me tho'
My prefered distance would be that he appeared like this
. and downwind from him!
Norm.
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hey norm..still workin out out on your pedgen?...been doing a lot of hiking this summer -- most
of it on the mountains--found a few bear kills and poached sheep--not as many bears on the
mountains this summer-or sheep? guess all the bears moved into town..a lot of complaints of
bears eating garbage and raiding chicken coops...a few years back the city would dart the bears
then fly them out vie chopper back out into the wild...miles from town..they gave up on that idea because after a few days the bear always showed back up in town !!--like i said i lost count on how many bear attackes we had up here this summer-- heres a few stories from this summer.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/index.html
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Yeah hiker still using the pedgen not quite as much my physical therapist
had told me that I was doing too much pedaling and was bad for my knees
....but funny when I cut it down to a fifth as much my knees seem to be
getting worse right knee gets stiff and almost impossible to pedal until
I pedal slowly for about 20 turns but I manage anyhow thinking about makng
an exercise machines to still generate and charge batteries.
.....to think I used to run a couple miles a day when I ran the half mile in
track about 60 some years ago in high school....(sigh).
The only way I would have been taking pictures of that bear would have been
with the camera mounted on top of a missle launcher !
Thanks for the stories.....entertaining and such
Norm.
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I don't think the average city boy [or hillbilly] has any clue how fast that mountain of muscle can cover ground. I saw one of those nature documentaries where a fairly large grizzly killed a youngish bull elk that was across a 150 foot wide stream before that elk could get 3 jumps away. Was like it covered that distance in the blink of an eye. Probably faster than most men could bring a rifle into battery to fire it. I am not afraid of much but a large bear is one thing I do fear. Those little 300# black bears we see near here occasionally are not that intimidating if you are properly armed but a full grown 800+ pound Kodiak or Grizzly is another matter all together. Most common hunting arms would just pi$$ them off!
Just saying...
Tom
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'Nuff said...
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo7/ksouers/image001.jpg)
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@ksouers;
That is a great oldie.
Tom
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how true.................. :}
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I'm getting worried about Glen Hurd. We cannot afford to do without him in this forum.
Years ago I made up a circuit powered from a 12 volt DC battery to operate a car ignition coil as a source for an electric fence HT voltage ~ 28,000 volts. Pulse width and power can be varied from light, to a kick in the goolies heavy.
I have never used it to date and - if you're reading this Glen - you would like it, I will send it over to you. To make it more effective could you fork out for razor tape to surround your home on insulators.
You could also equip the Prius with razor tape so that any bear touching the car body defences would receive a shock, but you would need to train the wife how to get in and out of the car when the system was on. Pedantic police officers who want to put a ticket on the car should be told that the same protection exists on the Mars Curiosity rover.
I hope someone can spin out this humorous line a little further.
David in HK
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I'm getting worried about Glen Hurd.
I'm still around, just busy with life's little issues.
Thanks for the offer for the 28,000V thing, but I get shocked enough without something like that!
If "razor tape" means concertina razor wire, no thanks again! If I get within a meter of sheet metal, I usually need stiches.
G-
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If I get within a meter of sheet metal, I usually need stiches.
G-
G-;
Just keep some SuperGlue with you. It bonds hide so well they make a version for closing surgical wounds.
Never used it on myself but I am certain it saved my old Chocolate Lab's life years ago when he tangled with some nasty barbed wire and I had to sit on him and glue his neck back together where he was leaking blood faster than was healthy, all the while he was trying to either bite me or get away. It is amazing how strong a panicked 65# lab is. We would have never made it to a Vet and I had heard it worked for wounds and happened to have some in my glove compartment of the pickup from fixing the light switch knob. The Vet said it saved his life and he stitched it up properly when we got there and he left my patch job alone and just stitched around it.
Tom
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I can vouch for the superglue trick, from personal experience. Several times in fact.
But maybe I should have gone to a Vet afterwards. The doctors all seem to get upset. ;D
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The doctors all seem to get upset. ;D
Oh, they're like that.
I broke my shoulder and tore the rotator cuff and some muscles. I didn't go to hospital for 4 days. They got mad.
I got a chunk of steel in my eye. By the time I got to the hospital 3 days later, the eyeball was infected. They got mad.
I fell and broke my elbow, but kept moving bricks for an hour. Wife was sick with the crepitus. She got mad, I went to hospital and THEY got mad.
I tell ya, you can't win!
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I was able to get some revenge on a doctor. Cut my arm (on sheet metal Ghurd) and got the artery.
Wrapped it up, and down to the hospital. Right in reception, the on-call doctor took a look at the towel
and asked what happened. Wanted have a look, my answer was "best not to do that here". Undaunted he pulled
off the towel. Managed to get himself, and the receptionist. My only comment was "you should listen next
time". He did laugh however.
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My only comment was "you should listen next time". He did laugh however.
There's a quote goes something like "Why is it I can tell you about subatomic particles and you believe me, yet I tell you the paint is wet.... and you have to touch it for yourself?"
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G-;
Just keep some SuperGlue with you. It bonds hide so well they make a version for closing surgical wounds.
SuperGlue?
That sounds like a decent idea.
Between the time it takes for the hot glue gun to heat up, and the pain from hi-temp glue sticks, that might be something SuperGlue is better for that hot glue?
G-
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Yep definitely black bears in Ohio .....we had one in our side yard....was
eating bird seed from feeders that the neighbors next door had for wild birds
didn't see him but neighbors across the street did ....their dog wouldn't go
outside so the cops are out looking for it(the bear).
Norm.
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Black bears opening up Car Doors
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/06/06/bc-bear-car.html
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I was a bit skeptical, until I watched the vid. As long as they can't all learn from the
video, I guess we are OK.
Thanks Woof
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Seen video where they just peel the door open from top to bottom. This is much cheaper to recover from..
Our dog Buddy has discovered how to open the workshop screen door from inside by "walking" up the door frame and shoving the push latch with his nose. He gets in the screened porch on the house by pulling on a bit of trim with a paw to open it against spring pressure and get his nose started in. Animals ain't as dumb as folks might think.
Tom
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thought i might take this out on my next hike....44 dragoon -ball and cap pistol-black powder...
should handle a blackie !! only problem i need to get some better fitting caps..sure wont have time to
fumble around..undoing jammed caps ! heavy gun..close to 5 pounds..still has a nice kick to it..48 grains of powder.....
heres a link..first time out with it...fun gun............next time out ile use black powder..even more smoke!!! right now im using pyro powder..
large file may take awhile to load--should have used a smaller setting on my cam........
http://s153.photobucket.com/user/hiker_07/media/DSCN1147_zps7a3633aa.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1