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Project Journals => Users Projects => Topic started by: bj on October 09, 2015, 08:05:59 am

Title: New backup power
Post by: bj on October 09, 2015, 08:05:59 am
   Power here is becoming less and less dependable.  Many outages, and I keep losing
electronic stuff.  Some cheap things like CFL's and smoke detectors (wired in system)
but some pricey things as well.  Most annoying.  And the cold season is coming-----so
new backup power is needed. 
   The old one I built a few years ago does the job, but it's noisy and has a fair appetite
for fuel.
   Hence the pic.  Just finishing the overhaul,(complete) and it will become the engine
for the new genset.
   It's a Kubota D1105, and will be direct coupled to a 4 pole brushless alternator.  At
12KW load, and 1800 rpm, it should have about 80% load.
   Total cost will be around $2000 cdn, and a lot of work.
   More pics, as it goes together.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: rossw on October 09, 2015, 03:55:58 pm
Nice looking little power plant. It should be great.
When I built my genset - with almost no idea of what my actual run-times, peak load or base-load were going to be, it was a "stop-gap" project with an anticipated life of 3 years, 5 at the outside. It was built from a decent 4-pole brushless alternator with AVR, and a 4-cylinder 1800cc petrol engine from a popular small car (Ford Laser, a mazda engine I believe).
It's still going fine, 10 years on but it too is a bit thirsty and has some other issues we hadn't planned on - like it's simply too big, and is very twitchy with no load. I used petrol because it was being converted to single point propane injection, but a diesel engine would probably have been a better bet to start with.
Are you planning to use an electronic governor? Building your own genset controller or buying one off the shelf? Keep us posted!
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on October 09, 2015, 04:11:09 pm
  Hey Ross----I hope it works alright.  Basically got the engine for free, only had 52 hours, but got hot.
Bored it to make sure everything was round again, replaced pistons etc etc.
  This particular one has a super heavy flywheel, and combined with the rotating mass of the
gen head, I'm hoping the mechanical governor will be OK.  We'll see.  Would rather have used a
Shubaura, but the price was right on this one.
  Controller has been thought about, but that is all.
  As always any and all suggestions are very welcome.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: artv on October 10, 2015, 05:09:33 am
Hi Bj, Long time no see.
Nice score on that diesel it should last a lifetime.
My back-up is gas powered but was looking into converting to propane, but not really sure if the engine would like it.
Some say it's better others say not ,who do you believe?
If hydro rates keep climbing the way they are it'll soon be cheaper to run the gen and say adios to hydro.
Good luck and looking forward to the finished project.
Hope all's well.
art
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: rossw on October 10, 2015, 05:26:11 am
My back-up is gas powered but was looking into converting to propane, but not really sure if the engine would like it.
Some say it's better others say not ,who do you believe?

The only consistent "downside" I hear with running a petrol (gasoline) engine on propane is upper-cylinder lubrication issues.
My own case, I took a standard 4-cylinder, 16-valve, double-overhead-cam engine, removed all the fuel injection nonsense and added single-point gas injection (mixing). I've seen unbelievably good plug condition, oil remains in very good condition for ages, and apart from oil (and filter) changes every 400-500 hours (equivalent to about 40,000km highway driving), and changing plugs about every 200,000km equivalent, it hasn't been touched.

To address the upper-cylinder lubrication, I vent the rocker cover to the air/fuel inlet after the air filter. The very small amount of oil fumes there seems to do fine.

I've had the oil analysed a couple of times and it shows no excessive wear and no other problems. No performance problems.

Here's a sparkplug after the equivalent of 200,000km (running on pure propane)
(http://house.albury.net.au/14apr2007/Pic010.jpg)

Here's under the rocker cover - oil hasn't been changed in 500 hours (around 40,000km), the engine has done in total close to 400,000km (equivalent) here, nothing apart from oil and plug changes.
(http://house.albury.net.au/24feb2008/100_2174.JPG)

Apart from slightly harder to start, and slightly less power (not an issue for me), there isn't any downside to the conversion, just do it!
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on October 10, 2015, 07:14:23 am
  Hey Art,  it has been a while.  Hope all is well with you.
  Propane----it's complicated, but Ross covered it well.
  There can be issues, but Ross's choice of engines was a wise one.
  Most of the problems come with older carbureted engines, especially from the leaded
fuel years.  The valves and seats and guides didn't like t propane as much.  Fuel injected
engines had better quality components, and few issues.
  Power loss is about 12%, again Ross chose well.  Some commercial gensets are short on
power anyway, so might be a consideration.
  The general engine cleanliness that Ross is showing is typical.
  Hoping to get the little diesel on the run-in stand today, and put a few hours on it, just to be sure.  Then
things will progress.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: artv on October 11, 2015, 07:04:29 am
Hi Ross,
 Wow that is clean. Looks like it just came off the line.
My genny is just one of those store bought el cheapo, made in China, but what isn't.
It says 389cc, not sure what horsepower that is? There are kits available online but I'd be concerned about it running hot, the top end oil thing you mentioned.
Bj, I'm sure she'll purr like a kitten.
artv
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on October 21, 2015, 08:48:53 am
Well, it wasn't easy, but it's running.  Many problems with the injector pump,
considered buying a rebuilt, but decided to tear it apart and see.  Long story
shortened, had one injector piston in wrong.  Didn't appear to have been apart,
so just one of those mysteries.
Hope to order the Gen. head in the next couple of days.  (bank account low)  :(

Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Watt on October 21, 2015, 07:14:15 pm
Nice engine BJ.  Not that you will, but don't skimp on the direct coupler of the generator end.  The st-12kw generator head, from china has a 42mm shaft and the weight of the rotor is just wrong with the 7s quadra flex coupler.  Just one misfire of the engine and the coupler was trashed.  That misfire was from setting a while and losing the diesel prime to the pump. I've since changed to a 15kw generator (48mm milled to 1-7/8") head and a 9s quadra flex coupler, rubber seems ok so far. 

All in all, sure like the hourage of the fuel use outta the engine...  Runs for days at a time at the river and does pretty good short of getting a bum st-head. 
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on October 22, 2015, 06:31:17 am
   That looks like the same one Watt.  Thanks for the heads up on the coupling.  The gen head I am looking at
is a single bearing unit that has a large diameter flex plate that direct bolts to the flywheel with the clutch bolt
holes at the edge of the flywheel.   It means either buying, or making a tractor style bell housing to bolt the
gen body do.   Hope that will be robust enough.
   They seem to be a tough little engine.  This one definitely suffered abuse, but aside from the piston
damage, and injector pump mystery, was in pretty good shape.
    Only have a couple of hours on it now, but all seems good.
    Pic is not the one, but similar.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Watt on October 22, 2015, 08:56:44 am
Awesome choice BJ.  That direct coupling looks to be best. 

I've seen the Kubota 05 series BG bell housings and  flywheels on ebay.  Sorta pricey but, they would make a perfect compliment to your engine and generator head plans. 905, 1005, 1105 and I think 1305 are interchangeable.

Here is a 905 with the proper housing and flywheel.  If I'm posting information you are already familiar with, I do apologize.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-KUBOTA-DIESEL-ENGINE-D905-NEW-Serial-AN8814-Military-Surplus-3-Cylinder-/221915521801?hash=item33ab322309:g:nYEAAOSwI-BWIS-x

Best of luck. 
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on October 23, 2015, 07:19:58 am
  Many thanks Watt.  That gives me a place to start.  Biggest problem with Kubota parts is finding
what the piece you need was used on.  Just the way their parts listings are done.  And that is
exactly the housing I need.
   Just for info, the engine I have is listed at $7000+  retail, new.  Makes the cost of
an overhaul seem a little less painful.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Norm on October 23, 2015, 08:19:31 am
In regards to the direct coupling we had direct couplers that used about 4 golf balls quite easy and cheap to replace .....our golfers were happy to donate their old golf balls !
Norm.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Watt on October 24, 2015, 02:51:15 am
  Many thanks Watt.  That gives me a place to start.  Biggest problem with Kubota parts is finding
what the piece you need was used on.  Just the way their parts listings are done.  And that is
exactly the housing I need.
   Just for info, the engine I have is listed at $7000+  retail, new.  Makes the cost of
an overhaul seem a little less painful.

Right on.  Best to ya, sir.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Watt on October 24, 2015, 02:53:34 am
In regards to the direct coupling we had direct couplers that used about 4 golf balls quite easy and cheap to replace .....our golfers were happy to donate their old golf balls !
Norm.

That seems cheap enough....  I wonder though, what sorta coupler uses golf balls.?
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on November 30, 2015, 08:56:50 am
   Put 25 liters of fuel through the engine,  dropped the pan, checked the rod bearings, and
all looks as new, no scuffs or high spots.
   Built my own back plate, engine mounts, and cradle for floor mount.
   In progress----exhaust header  and generator is on it's way.
   I will be building the flywheel/adapter housing, as nothing is available because of
the flywheel I want to use.  I can get one custom built, but too many $.
   Can't start that until I have the generator for exact measurements.
   
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: MadScientist267 on November 30, 2015, 01:30:40 pm
Looking real good Bj ;)

Interesting alternator there as well... can't say I've seen something quite like it for use in that position on an engine before... is that PMA in some form or another?

Steve
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on November 30, 2015, 07:33:51 pm
   Thanks Steve, coming slowly, as only have one properly functioning arm at the moment.
   They use those alternators on stuff with low electrical draw.   Odd design---PMA, with two
sets of windings.  One, lots of turns, the other less turns bigger wire.  All feeds into a little
black box that seems to be more than just a recifier.  I will just be using one winding, (more turns)
as this engine will only see idle for warmup, and 1800 rpm.
    BTW  they really cog.  Thought about using one on a four foot set of blades, but it would take a
stiff breeze to get it going.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Wolvenar on November 30, 2015, 11:45:18 pm
looks great!
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on December 08, 2015, 05:03:26 pm
   I was not happy with the cast iron exhaust manifold, as it was designed for a turbo,
which I did not put on, and it was kind of restrictive.
   So, I built a tuned header,  (2000 rpm) and tried it out.  (just to keep in practice)
   With no other changes, identical conditions, it went from 1799 to 1801 rpm with the stocker
to 2001 to 2003 rpm with the header.
   That of course is unloaded conditions for both, but more load should increase the effect.  Time
will tell.
    All in all worth the work.
   
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: DaveW on December 08, 2015, 09:36:25 pm
Looks great.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: hiker1 on December 08, 2015, 11:28:58 pm
Nice...not sure about Diesel engine....headers on a gas engine will make it run a little lean...and the rpms  do incress with less back pressure...but runs hot  under load...unless of course you make it run a little richer...?
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on December 09, 2015, 06:14:22 am
    Thanks Dave
    Hiker--I had a bit of trouble getting my head around it, so much so I put the stock manifold
back on last night, and repeated the test, then header on and did it again.  Same results.
I think the key is how a diesel governor works.  The set point becomes the minimum amount of
fuel.  It can give more if it slows down (load), but never less fuel than that.
     Two other things I noticed--the exhaust is noticeably cleaner, and it is a lot louder.  The noise
part will be a challenge, as I don't really want to hear it from the house. 
     But when it's -40 and the power goes off I probably won't care all that much.  ;)
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on December 21, 2015, 11:37:45 am
  Gradually acquiring parts.  This rad was an awesome deal, high volume
racing rad for, of all things, a mini-cooper.  $110 Can, at my door.
  Of course it could be too small, won't know until I can test it with
full load.  Kittens like to photo-bomb.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: hiker1 on December 22, 2015, 01:26:03 pm
Shroud on the rad might help out......took a second to find the secound kit
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on December 23, 2015, 05:48:07 am
  Agreed Hiker, shroud for sure.  Actually, already beating out some aluminum for it.
  I will probably wall mount the rad to isolate it from vibrations.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on April 09, 2016, 02:39:39 pm
Things were on hold for a bit.  Anyway, generator sitting on chassis, (not mounted yet).

Had to take a bit off the flywheel bolts, as clearance is tight.

Managed to get the drive disk mounted on the flywheel, and with much fussing about, it is
less than a thou out of concentric.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on April 15, 2016, 05:02:11 pm
   Coupled, leveled, etc.  Now I have accurate measurements for the flywheel
housing.
    Also can build the permanent Gen mount, with the rubber mounts.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: Wolvenar on April 19, 2016, 12:33:48 am
Looking nice.
Whats planned for the radiator mounts?
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on April 19, 2016, 07:54:32 am
   It's going to be wall mounted, with a shroud.  What you see there for plumbing
was just a quick and dirty hook-up so I could run, test, tune etc.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: bj on April 30, 2016, 12:52:50 pm
   After much messing around, decided to spend the money and get the factory
adapter housing.
  So now everything is aligned, and double checked, test run etc.
  Just need to get the addition done that it will reside in.
Title: Re: New backup power
Post by: hiker1 on May 01, 2016, 01:00:41 pm
Looks great....