Author Topic: guess who bought a power jack inverter  (Read 202713 times)

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Offline off the wall

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #165 on: March 03, 2015, 10:37:47 am »
It's better to use a dump load switched on by the approach of the batteries to 28V. Voltage controlled switches are easily obtainable and a product such as Immersun takes solar generated power and feeds hot water immersion heaters to absorb all the solar power generated. This can be a second stage process once batteries are up to voltage, as long as you've got enough hot water to heat.

Best wishes

OTW

Offline davidwillis

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #166 on: March 03, 2015, 03:36:08 pm »
I have looked into using a dump load, but the cost for a 5+kw dump load gets a little expensive.  I am not looking into this being a full time off grid system, so just some sort of safety shutoff would be fine.

I tested it out today (using only two 12v batteries in series).  I disconnected the grid, and plugged my inverter into my 220v welding outlet.  Once my grid tie inverter turned on, it took my batteries up over 31V, before my grid tie inverter shut down.  It only took about 20 seconds....  I am sure it would react much differently with more batteries.


Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #167 on: March 03, 2015, 07:30:34 pm »
At least now you have seen it work in that configuration with the grid tie.... 5kw is a handful... at 24v battery bank........thats sort around the 200A+  to get rid of....
Try to keep below C10 charge rate.... so 2000ah bank??

.....oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline davidwillis

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #168 on: March 06, 2015, 12:34:36 pm »
That is a litter bigger bank than I was planning on... I suppose it really will never charge at 5kw, unless I turn off everything in my house.

I have ordered a few parts to see if it will disconnect my inverter correctly...

1- 12V 24V Diversion Regulator Control Relay SSR Solar/Wind/Hydro 1URDC-1224-BSD  (ebay)

2- 40A Relay SPDT High Power Motor Control 24VDC/120VAC

I hope to be able to connect the controller to the relay (the relay will turn off the ac power to the grid tie inverter) to disconnect the inverter when the batteries are full.  However I am afraid we will get the inverter turning on and off a lot...

Offline off the wall

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #169 on: March 06, 2015, 02:51:23 pm »
The LF inverters are accompanied by a large red label with the following wording:

Quote
Warning:
When you need plug in the ac power
cable to charge your battery, you
need turn off the switch, after
plug in, then switch on, when you
need plug out the ac power cord,
you also need turn off the switch,

then remove the power cable,
other wise when you plug in or out
the ac power cord, will have voltage
spark come to damage the inverter.
tks for your noted.

Am I the only one a little confused by this?

Does this imply that the unit cannot be used for UPS function relying on the battery charger to keep batteries maintained automatically whilst mains is present? If so presumably the charger needs to be set to 0 being the off position . . . ?

Best wishes

OTW

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #170 on: March 07, 2015, 07:15:42 pm »
Thats about how I feel about it..... I think it is a special inverter, and a pig of a charger/ups arrangement.......

I think .... and this may be bulldust too, that this controller was designed for the W7. It does a great job as an inverter charger with those leaky transformers, but when they grafted it onto the PJ torroids, it came home to haunt them that they did not develop the software originally, so cannot follow the frequency and gently come back to default.

Thats the only problem with it, it can sync to the grid/generator perfectly well, and without the switch off from my experience, but it will be a lucky dip as to where the wave form will be when it loses grid and goes back to the default frequency.... if they had control of the programming, they could stay with the grid/generator frequency when it turned off, that was there previous, and then over a few more cycles, it could drift  back to 50.0hz ( for mine), and the surge currents would not materialise.

Whether it makes a difference if it is charging or just through putting I have not tested for, as I don't use it as that.

It works well with grid tie inverters.......no matter what happens, but it is the grid tie that does the following, so no negative results.

I found it interesting that even 3 kw or more through the grid tie inverter to the inverter outputs, and then into the battery bank @ say 2.5kw, the PJ controlled the environment... up to the point where excess AC that had no where to go, (as the batteries were filled), just pushed up the AC voltage, and the grid tie drops off.  ( I have a battery shut off programmed for 58.5v, but by then, it seems to be the case that the AC goes high before the battery goes high... normally around the 57.5v or so)

..............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline frackers

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #171 on: March 12, 2015, 04:48:33 am »
I'm sure that when I checked the Aussie ebay site a couple of months ago the PJ shop were doing free post to New Zealand. The 10kw job is now AU$999 with post being AU$550. That makes it a total non-starter now :(

The only option I have is to get a set of boards (AU$200 + 75 post) and build from scratch with a locally sourced transformer. Is this doable or am I going to be missing major parts. I'll need some input on wire gauge and number of turns but I'm willing to tackle most things!

Other question is, are all the spares the same as they only list up to 8000w 48v and I was hoping for 10000w 48v.

Cheers

Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #172 on: March 12, 2015, 09:53:34 pm »
Yes Frackers, totally doable.
Will be helping a local to do the same thing shortly.

There is no real difference with the boards, just the programming, which can be gotten around easily anyway.. simply bypassing the current tranny with some length of wire will make it whatever wattage you want.... but I advise making your own fan control in this case, as it wont l know that your doing 4000w instead of say 2000w, and won't drive the fan on until it gets to 50C or more. I would be wary of bypassing more than 50% around the tranny.. as the peaks will be well up in the 20kw area on wild occasions... and it will do it too..., but it allows for severe power for long periods... if you cool the fets ( easy to do) and your trannies are big enough to take it for long periods.

My home drive inverter is three torroids from aero sharp 1.5kw grid tie inverters, they are really much larger than that in  this use, as using 6 or 7 kw for long periods is very unlikely.

The 8kw power board is electrically the same as the 15000w board, except for the heat sink size, and fet spacing, and a tiny ferrite bead on the leg of the fets.

If you can get hold of dud grid tie  units with galvanic isolation ( heavy  units, not the light ones) you will have a cheap torroid.. I can buy them over here for $40 a piece, don't know over there, but if they ran aerosharps or inspires over there there should be a few around if you get hold of installers..

So you need the control board and power card... transformers for the size you want, a ferrite filter and a box to put it in... it is that simple.

I use 100amp fused input..... as it won't blow until near 200A, and will protect the input wiring from the bank. I don't use over 5kw for long periods... maybe 10 mins etc, so it is big enough

I use a 6kw rcd on the output, only blown it once when I was over 8kw for a few minutes.... very abnormal, a 200a shunt for the current measurement if you want to see whats going on

Then whatever monitoring stuff you want ( and I know you will have this part computerised )....... an on /off switch, a box and thats about all.

Help is a post away.

Here for less than $600, I have a very solid unit that has now done many mega watt hours without any problem at all.
My fan control has two fans in push pull through the larger heatsink, and don't run most of the time.... when the hot water is on they will breifly turn on and off at varied speed, and keep the sinks down to about 38C, transformer can get up to 45C if it has large loads for long periods ( few hours etc.. eg hot water runs for about 2.5hrs/ day , plus all the house loads) so I can hear it come on if I'm in the shed at this time ( between 10.30am and to about 1pm) It is usually doing the HW, washing machine, fridges freezers and water pumps and telly at the same time.... and a few intermittant 2500w jug events for coffee... it does not care in the least.

I usually have up to 1.5kw of grid tie there as well, and can boost that to 4.5kw if I want too.

I do NOT use it as a charger or automatic UPS, and suggest you do not as well...... as an inverter, it has proven to be rock solid, but read the red writing above for why I dont.


If you want to use quality ( old type) welding transformers, you will probably get pretty reasonable idling results too, but no where near the torroids, but respectable none the less... better quality laminates mean lower magnetising current.

The W7 is a very decent unit... except for the transformers. They are programmed with better time outs for heavy power.. ie pj 8000w will cut out after 12 seconds or so at full power, the W7 will just do it's 6kw honestly continuously... so replace the trannies with better quality steel, and a filter and you will do ok....a few choices...


.................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline OTG

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #173 on: March 15, 2015, 05:26:19 pm »
Well... I dont know how long it's been there (chanced upon it this morning), but the land down-under appears to have it's very own Power Jack e-Bay shop! And true to form the pricing is all over the shop... :o

http://stores.ebay.com.au/AU-PowerJack

They have a new 2015 version now, with some interesting bits on that front panel;
 - USB JACK?
 - 110V AC OUTPUT!?!? (surely not?) It's a universal socket now too, not the AU one...
 - there's a screw down AC output terminal block now, thats cool...
 - And... whats that AC 220V~240V L1 N L2 thing in the middle of the panel? Anybody?

Off the Wall - if you can clarify the specs on these units with your contact that'd be great!

I also assume they use the same boards as the 2013/14 model?

I'm holding off on my next purchase till I figure out if the 2015 version is a better buy, or not.  :)

3829-0

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #174 on: March 16, 2015, 04:13:08 pm »
Thats an American split phase output inverter from the looks of it.

The USB stuff is for experimental ( last I heard) monitoring... the L1 N L2 is the split phase output ie 110v 0 110v so 110v from either line to neutral, but 220v from line to line.

They seem to be using slightly modified boards compared to a few years back, and have daughter boards on them for the communication and driver components.... good or bad??? don't know.

They need to address the software for the folks that need proper UPS and charging setups, and they would be pretty hard to beat in any category then.


................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline davidwillis

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #175 on: April 01, 2015, 08:50:59 am »
Is there a way to adjust the output voltage.  I have one that is putting out 107VAC, and I would much rather have it putting out closer to 120VAC.  By the way, this is a 5KW 110 version, not a split phase version.

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #176 on: April 01, 2015, 01:15:58 pm »
Yes, but it involves tricking the control circuit.

If you find the tracks that give the 110v sample of the output voltage to the chip to make it's decisions, you can intercept and use a voltage divider to give it any voltage you wish, and it will ramp up or down accordingly.

I have not needed to do this, so can't say exactly how. Depends on your electronic knowhow.

If your plus or minus 10% of your goal, then that is normally good enough for any appliance ......though, if you want to increase it. thats how.


............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline davidwillis

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #177 on: April 01, 2015, 01:42:02 pm »
Interesting... That sounds a little difficult.

I am just worried about voltage drop after running an extension cord 100 feet to a freezer.  The surge load may drop the voltage too low to start correctly... I will have to try it I guess.

Offline lighthunter

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #178 on: April 02, 2015, 10:56:01 pm »
I do know its possible to alter voltage regulation, ive not done it but once when mine was still installed under panel, it got damp and was running at 120v. A little surprised i had to go get a meter and check, sure enough, 120v.

Has anyone had an issue with a pj inverter making an arcing noise inside transformer???
It doesnt do it cold, only after about 10 min of a 700w load, gradually the noise gets louder and louder, analog amp guage on dc side starts flickering wildly until grid tie decides party is over and takes a nap. Because the noise comes from toroid, thinking that the thing is arcing between windings i replaced toroid. Did not help. (This is a new unit out of box my original pj still works great after a year of service). I tried to feel for a hot fet or cap but nothing obvious.
Thanks Oztules and others for ide.
as and inspiration!
Lighthunter
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline Wolvenar

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #179 on: April 03, 2015, 11:37:57 am »
lighthunter
As you probably guessed by now it sounds like you have a bad transformer.
Might be wise to replace /rebuild before it causes more problems.
Trying to make power from alternative energy any which way I can.
Just to abuse what I make. (and run this site)