Author Topic: guess who bought a power jack inverter  (Read 196496 times)

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Offline Preston

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #525 on: June 14, 2017, 10:56:40 am »
Hello all, I have a split phase PJ 8000W inverter that I am wanting to use to feed a critical load panel which is also tied in to the grid through an automatic transfer switch. The home is in the US so its a single phase 120/240 set up. Im having trouble making sense of the instructions in the manual. I was going to use a separate stand alone battery charger and Im not interested in any ups function, so I was thinking I don't need to connect anything to the ac input terminals. Is that correct or do I need to connect any grounds or neutrals in the ac inputs in order to get the correct voltage from the outputs? Secondly: should I be connecting my output to L1 and L2 to get my 220v? Will my 120v loads in the critical load panel get the neutral from the one thats already there from the grid? Thank you.

Offline oztules

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #526 on: June 14, 2017, 01:16:12 pm »
Your split phase system ( hangover from edison) is strange left over from the past.... but it is what it is.

L1 and L2 from the PJ are simple outputs from the transformer.... N is the centertap of that transformer. Treat it exactly like the street transformer... same thing.

So L1 and L2 on the PJ is 220/240v The N is center tap or neutral and earth

Over there the N is the center tap of the utility transformer and grounded at the panel as well... you still need to also connect your N from the Pj to the panel... or the 110v appliances will go haywire.... ie. they will have no low impedance return path.... and try to get a return through each other.. could be nasty.

This pic is from wikipedia, and shows the transformer ( utility ) from the street.... PJ is treated the same way,  center tapped secondary transformer.

CC BY-SA 3.0, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5974288


..........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline Preston

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #527 on: June 14, 2017, 02:04:11 pm »
Thank you so much for your quick response. I was worried about connecting a neutral to the N terminal because of this in the manual:
Note: Can not L1+N+L2.
Should I connect the neutral to the N on the upper terminal block or the lower?
Is it ok for the inverter neutral to be connected to the grid neutral at the same time or should it be switched along with L1 and L2 in the transfer switch?
I installed a ground wire from the main service that I attached to the inverter case. Is that the only ground I need?
And lastly, Is it ok to not have an ac input since I won't be using the charge and ups function?


Offline off the wall

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #528 on: June 24, 2017, 10:06:20 am »
I use mine without it being connected to the grid. This means, however, that the output is not phase-tied to the grid and that upon switchover, if instant, there can be nasty transient jumps. I got over this by using a switchover box that you'll find on earlier pages of this thread.

Best wishes

OTW

Offline solarnewbee

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #529 on: July 02, 2017, 10:03:42 am »
Howdy OTW!

Question regarding transfer switch. I have used a DPDT 100 amp contactor to switch between grid and inverter using the power output from PJ to engage the contactor. A thought came to me that the PJ may not be able to kick in quick enough to absorb all the appliances and AC that were running at the time. Should I put a delay on make timer in between to give the inverter time to come up to power? The case would be if the PJ dropped out for some reason and I reset it locally or remotely and the contactor will re-engage. Of course the major appliances will go into a 5 minute delay on power loss but I don't want to blow up the PJ. I can also add a delay thru triggers on my Cayenne app or thru software. Either way I would like you educated opinion.

SN
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline panner

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #530 on: July 06, 2017, 06:17:44 am »
Hello members, first post here. :D
I was looking at inverters and the power jack looked the goods, so I googled it and found this site.
I want it for a caravan, I noticed the no load current was an issue earlier on.
I know ebay sellers tell BS anyway so I'd just like to ask how this one stacks up?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8000W-LF-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-DC24-to-AC240V-Battery-Charger-UPS-/262839524195?hash=item3d3274db63:g:hBYAAOSwFV9XxnwX

Has anyone got some feedback on the no load current of this model?

Cheers Mark

Offline solarnewbee

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #531 on: July 06, 2017, 07:55:10 am »
Here been plenty folks had success with the PJ. Read the thread where oztules states "look who bought a power jack" much has improved in the design but the wattage claims are still overstated.
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline xerxescct

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #532 on: July 06, 2017, 03:50:45 pm »
Hello there.

I just picked up a 12V, 8KW, SP, LF Powerjack inverter. I also have a 5KW but it was having trouble starting a few things around the house. Turns out the 8KW is no better at this. I am running in split phase connected directly to my main panel with an interconnect. I have 2.4KW of solar going into a 1200AH battery bank.

I have improved the cooling by installing a 200 CFM fan with independent control switch that runs when the inverter is on. It pushes out a lot of hot air but on 2-3KW loads I am still getting thermal shutdown. I know its the Toroidal getting hot. Is their any way to cool this thing down without rewinding it? I know nothing about winding my own despite all have I read in this thread. I noticed the tranny has these huge rubber rings on top and bottom and they seem to trap quite a bit of heat inside. Would removing these help in anyway or are they insulators to prevent the tranny from touching the case?

Also is it possible to run the tranny I have in the 5KW unit in parallel with the tranny in the 8KW unit? With this improve anything? I have noticed that some 8KW Powerjack units have 2 trannys while mine just has one. I was thinking about putting the guts inside a square metal case I have and add the tranny from the 5KW unit.

I appreciate the work in this thread. Took me a few days to read through it all and its useful info for sure.

Sean

Offline Pete

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #533 on: July 06, 2017, 05:38:37 pm »
Hi Sean, I have a 5kw 12 volt powerjack at my shed. It has problems too with large loads, it definitely will not run 5kw loads. It will not start my air compressor at all but will run all my other power tools. Oztules pointed out that in trying to start the compressor (1.5kw, which would draw around10kw to start) it would be trying to pull 2000 amps from the batteries. Not much chance.
My solution was to get a 12 volt air compressor designed for pumping 4wd tyres up. I then plug it into my compressors air tank and then presto I have a 12 volt portable compressor for my air tools.
On the issue of cooling the transformer. Depends on you application. You could always do something really radical and mount the transformer outside the powerjack case.
It could be mounted in a position where air flow could be improved such as hung vertically , or better still in a tank of transformer oil.
I do suspect that your batteries will not last long if you keep pulling massive loads though.
The only other way is to change to a 24, or 48 volt battery configuration and get another powerjack for the big loads.
Others will have some more ideas I am sure.
Cheerio
Pete
Oh yep I run a powerstar w7 at the house but with a inductor as per Oztules design. That limits the standby current to around 3.5 amps. I only turn it on when I want it. I have 12volt lighting, and a 1 volt refrigerator.

Offline xerxescct

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #534 on: July 06, 2017, 05:54:35 pm »
Pete, thank you for the reply. You are right about the high amp draw for the those big start ups. What I ended up doing was adding an AC jump start capacitor to the Air conditioner and the Power Jack has no problems starting the air conditioner now. What I have noticed is that the Watt meter on the inverter is way too high. Right now I have an 800 watt draw on the AC side and the inverter is saying its a 2300 watt draw. I am monitoring the DC side draw and its right in line with the AC draw so I am not sure why the inverter is thinking its drawing 3 times.

I am really curious about the rubber on the trannies. I would like to remove it. I am not sure if they put it there to prevent shock during shipping or if it acts like an insulator. Either way it traps a lot of heat.

I have considered moving to a 24 volt system. It would require a large investment though as I would need a new controller and contactors. The battery change over is not a big deal. I just dont want to invest the money and have the new inverter behave the same as the 12 volt does now.

I'm still very curious if I can add this second tranny from the 5KW unit to the 8KW unit.

Offline Pete

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #535 on: July 07, 2017, 02:20:11 am »
Hi Sean, please tell more about the capacitor you added to the air conditioner. I have experience in electric motors and some have start capacitors , some have run capacitors and some have both. But have not heard of a Jump Start Capacitor.
Can you expand on what you did, eg, how you connected it, and also what size capacitor you used?
Thanks
Pete

Offline xerxescct

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #536 on: July 07, 2017, 02:35:43 am »
SUPCO SPP6 Relay/Capacitor Hard Start Kit . I just ran it inline with the starter capacitor that is already in the unit. What I noticed was the first  starts we're hard but after that it starts like normal. It pulls about 8 amp through the wires to help start it.

Offline Pete

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #537 on: July 08, 2017, 04:14:53 am »
Thanks for that information Sean, I have not been able to find a supplier of them in Australia yet, but will keep looking. I will also see if I can find the information on how they work and maybe make one for my compressor too. It almost starts but not quite.
Cheerio
Pete

Offline lighthunter

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #538 on: July 15, 2017, 11:30:10 pm »

I am really curious about the rubber on the trannies. I would like to remove it. I am not sure if they put it there to prevent shock during shipping or if it acts like an insulator. Either way it traps a lot of heat.

I have considered moving to a 24 volt system. It would require a large investment though as I would need a new controller and contactors. The battery change over is not a big deal. I just dont want to invest the money and have the new inverter behave the same as the 12 volt does now.

I'm still very curious if I can add this second tranny from the 5KW unit to the 8KW unit.

Hi, regarding rubber on trannies, I simply removed bolt on mine and stood trannie donut up so fan blows air through the middle. I set the one piece of rubber under it and the other piece over it. The cover goes on with an inch or so gap between 2 cover halves, this can be closed up however you like. I think it removes heat much better but then ive changed so many things ive nothing to compare it to.  Started out as 24v 110v 6000lf (realistically 2kw). Now is 48v double tranny sharing a 120v coil while paralleling the other (2) 110v coils. Also a shared 12v boost coil to bring thee110s to 120. for a resulting inverter of 48v 120/240 split phase 4kw continuous.

Yes you should be able to pop the 5k tranny into the 8k box along side the other. If they both have 12v primaries and you want to stay 12 just pair up the large yellow and black leads for parallel primaries and then pair up the small black leads and for safety do not connect the red lead. Hook up power and turn it on at this point and measure AC voltage between the two red leads (the one not yet connected from add in tranny and the original red lead on board that comes from original tranny.)
This measured voltage must be 0v AC ANY VOLTAGE ABOVE .5vAC DO NOT CONNECT. A light bulb can work too instead of meter (120v) any glow and its a no do not connect.

Have fun ask questions if in doubt and theres nothing wrong with leaving things as they are if you are happy with it.
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline xerxescct

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Re: guess who bought a power jack inverter
« Reply #539 on: July 16, 2017, 01:27:45 am »
Lighthunter,

You are a wealth of information. I am still learning about these inverters and circuits in general. You have some great ideas and I will give them a try. Can I still run this in split phase adding the second tranny? I currently have it running into my main breaker to the house.

Also, realistically will I see any improvement to heat or output?

Thanks again

Sean