Siemens motor conversion

[swirl]

Helou to all!

and my deepest symphaties to all who knew Zubbly. I read from other part of forum that he is gone.

I am trying to convert very old Siemens washing machine motor to a new life. I am totally green in induction motors and tried to read through numerous articles but I still haven't figured out how to rewire the motor.

It's rated for 450/2850  rpm 220V and even though it had no starting cap, it started humming when I plugged it in and literally kicked it to start.



I took the armature apart and I think it has 12 poles but somehow the rpm values don't match to nameplate values. Either I have counted poles wrong or there is something I don't know.


In stator I counted 36 coil wiring slots.

I have 1 page of Zubblys article where he showed a picture of rewiring to star or delta. I would like to use star wiring. I don't know is this a right idea but I guess if I just number the pole slots 1-12 then every third pole slot belongs to same coil and I can just use the numbers in Zubblys wiring guidance? Just going to left (or right?) and using them systematically? Also measuring resistance with ohm-meter might help in the process.

I also have 80 cheap (N32?) disc magnets (size diam: ~19.8 mm thickness: ~1.8 mm) and I thought to use 5 piled to stack x3 in a row x 6 totaling around 30000-33000 gaus magnetic power.




Does this sound totally wrong? Thank you in advance and if you have some helpful articles & pointers to get conversion started I would really appreciate them.

EDIT: corrected typos & added magnet size

[niall]

hi Swirl

cant add anything useful but it seems an interesting project ... standard induction windings are/seem (from what i read ) not often ideal ....something about pole counts ?...a black art

Zubblys earlier posts might suggest ideal candidates ....

[tomw]

Zubblys earlier posts might suggest ideal candidates ....

Yeah, too bad the idiot, err "admin" over on that "other" forum lost most of Zubbly's stuff and all of the photos of his and so many other great posts. I won't mention names but it starts with J and ends with W.

Some stuff is no big deal like pimping a relatives' silly bird book or yet another cookie cutter dual rotor turbine  but Zubbly's posts were not replaceable and priceless. Sadly, done is done.

Tom

[Wolvenar]

It's likely not all of zubbly's pics from the early days but we have a fair sized gallery of images ( and a couple videos) zubbly uploaded.
He was one of the early users of the gallery way back in 2003. The image upload dates may not reflect that date  because of all the moves, upgrades and so forth over the years, but there are quite a few treasures to be found in there.

http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php/v/zubbly/

[Wolvenar]

Can you post some pics of the entire motor chassy and the windings?
This would help to figure out what you have there.

[swirl]

Thank you Wolvenar for a link to Zubblys picture archive & others for commenting. I actually planned to make similar "holster" from PVC pipe to magnets but now I think of cutting curves and making a "nest" to magnets by drilling and then using 2-component urethane + plastic mold and glue whole thing together. I would really liked to use good Epoxy, but could not find any in nearest (read 55km one way) town in any reasonable price. Closest was around 30€ for 300 ml which is way too much for me.

Good news is that my dear neighbour & friend owns a big metal lathe and kindly lathed rotor to 69 mm diameter this afternoon.

I am aware & agree that this is not going to be very efficient generator without complete rewiring. I am just trying to learn basics and I like the idea of converting induction motors because:

a) They are made in factory with pretty accurate tolerances for higher rpms
b) You can use most of the parts, really keeping the costs down and recycle

I try to put below some pictures. Now is dark outside so I try to take better ones tomorrow.

Dismantled motor:




Plan to magnet nesting:

 

[Wolvenar]

I have also done a couple conversions, my latest is here.
http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php/v/My-projects/album24/album13/
I was guided through this one buy zubbly himself, so it tells you how long ago that was.

I do not really remember much of the specs for this but I know it can really put out some serious power, but its also takes a fairly serious tower to handle the loads.

From your images, and tags on the motor it looks like you have a multi speed, multi wound motor, but I will venture to say rewound properly, this would be a much more capable machine.

If I am correct in what this is, the windings currently in this are probably lend poorly to a good output in any configuration, even if at first it may seem to be a good thing being able to tap the different wring for different cut ins.

This WOULD have been a great one to consult zubbs on, he would have told you more than you ever wanted to know about it.

I think that if you decide to rewind the stator, there are people here that can help guide you through the steps. I'm sure I can pull up some of the memories from when I had done this as well.

[ghurd]

Just my opinion: It does not look like something very well suited for a first try.
Multi-speed.  Single phase.  Open ends.  The whole thing would need stripped down and started over from scratch.

Zubbly told me it was easiest to start with a 3-phase, hopefully low RPM (6 or 8 pole), and maybe 600 to 800 W 12-wire motor so the coil wire would 'probably' not need changed.
He was correct.

I will do some pretty silly things to motors, but I would not bother trying that one.

Portable means small.  Or the tower will be a failing point.
Might try to find a small 3-phase 1500RPM motor to start with.  Should be a decent PMA for HD neos.
This one works quite well...

[swirl]

Thankyou very much for replies to Wolvenar and Ghurd. I'll source thatkind motor like Ghurd suggested when I have more time. I have been busy for repairing cars, tractor etc. Seems everything broke down nearly simultaneously so haven't had time for this most intriguing hobby project.

I discussed about that motor conversion briefly with my brother in law who happens to be an electric engineer & designer. He told me pretty much same things as you did. I have a very small (around 350 W) squirrel cage brush motor from newer washing machine which have 2 large coils in stator side and inside rotor have pretty many thinner wired coils.

I originally thought that would be perfect because it is very lightweight. So perhaps I'll make a try for that with the following idea:

1.) I strip the rotor windings and brushes away. (possibly reuse the copper wire aiming for 48 Volt windings)
2.) I bore rotor holes for magnets (4 poles, 2x4 magnets in each)
3.) I make a mold for coils from PVC pipe to outer side and thinner material like big soda bottle to inner side diameter adjusted & patched with silicone to prevent leaking
4.) I cast the coils with 2 component polyurethane

So this design is pretty complex in a way but could be very lightweight and I could easily fit coils. So coils would be in circular format and magnets in rotor.

I have around 14-16 meters 63 mm diameter very hard steel pipe, thickness 3+ mm (ex professional welder said they are made of excellent steel quality) and it's zinc coated (all ways remove zinc coating from welding area btw, very toxic to breath). I am planning to make from them the test tower. Pipes are about 4 meters long and I planned to weld bolting plates to them and bolt them together. Also a guy wire tilt tower design because this would be a test bed for my tinkerings.

EDIT: corrected some of typos, my english is pretty rusty like my motors

[oztules]

So a series/universal motor.. brushed

It sounds  like a 2 pole, so you only need 2 magnet poles on your rotor.

 4 poles on the rotor will be a very poor performer.... cancellation will abound.





......oztules

[swirl]

So a series/universal motor.. brushed

It sounds  like a 2 pole, so you only need 2 magnet poles on your rotor.

 4 poles on the rotor will be a very poor performer.... cancellation will abound.





......oztules

  You are absolutely right. Don't want to heat atmosphere. My project is in stall thanks to a fire in the house. Hopefully get something together before autumn storms so I can crash it right away 

[oztules]

Building it is the interesting part.

Watching it plummet to it's grave is the exciting part.......

Try to keep this type of excitement to a minimum, or you get to do too much of the interesting bit... but once is a worthwhile learning  experience ......... I guess 

Keep us informed on the interesting bit at least.



............oztules