Tanks but no tanks

[Dave B.]

Happy day ! One step closer to independence for me. Here's a photo of my propane tank being hauled away today. More energy for me from 93,000,000 miles away, no delivery charges. Voltaic, Thermal and Wind with more soon, getting it done. Dave B.   www.dcbenergy.com

[madlabs]

Congrats! I'm off grid but still using some 5 gallon propane tanks in the winter.  Until I move out of the trailer I'll keep using it as it just isn't worth trying to do solar thermal on the trailer.

Jonathan

[Dave B.]

Thanks for the motivation. When the propane Co. sent me a letter saying since I didn't order propane last year they were going to start charging fees for minimal propane purchases to cover their losses of a warmer Winter, I said what ? I called them and asked if I was reading this correctly .... if I didn't purchase propane they were going to charge me and if I did purchase propane they were going to charge me, is this correct ? Well, yes but .....  I am not going to be strong armed and I told them to come and pick up their tank. They had a very long face when they saw the solar thermal, voltaic and wind turbine. I'm not too far now from pulling the cord as well.  Dave B.

[David HK]

Dave B,

Your forum note was interesting.

But and its a big BUT, if you are are young man now and do not move for the rest of your life how will you get on when you are old. Have you thought out a long term plan?

Have you ever thought of building your own tank and having it certified etc. Today's living conditions may not be tomorrows plan.


David in Hong Kong

[rossw]

Have you ever thought of building your own tank and having it certified etc. Today's living conditions may not be tomorrows plan.

Not sure about other parts of the world - but here they must be tested and certified (by an approved person) every 10 years. So building and certifying one now won't help in as little as 10 years.

Oh, and it's illegal to fill one that's out of certification. Substantial fines and even custodial terms apply.

(I was certified for liquid filling of propane tanks just last year, and it was one of the first points in the practical test - making sure you understood, and checked the cylinders currency stamp)

[madlabs]

Dave, I envy you that moment of telling them to take that tank and shove it. That must have been sweet! And you know they ain't used to hearing that.

David HK brings up a good point. I'm only 46, but I'm starting to think about when I'm old. Not just in terms of my body, but what will be available and what will it cost. Luckily for me, I live where solar thermal and a properly designed and insulated house will keep me warm in the winter. Cooking is another matter, I hate electric stoves.

Jonathan

[Dave B.]

  Thanks everyone for your comments and concerns. For the cost of filling that tank twice in a year I have already paid for half of my solar thermal system. I have calculated a 5 year payback which in effect is now 2-3 years. I have a pellet stove which I'll run as needed and the power it needs is off my inverter. I have more wood than I could ever burn so my next thought is to go with an outdoor boiler or inside stove.

   I plan more voltaic and batteries and just moving a planned one step at a time. After running a wind turbine for 7 years and solar voltaic for a year and thermal for less than that I know my continued investment will be with solar. It's not as exciting as wind but it works with little or no maintenance. My thermal system is now all automatic for my DHW and supplimental heat through heat exchangers and my converted forced air furnace. This system alone just passed 1,600,000 watts in heat for 4 months. I plan to get together my systems details in future posts as well as videos. You can see some of what I have here at  www.dcbenergy.com   Dave B. 

[ghurd]

"my next thought is to go with an outdoor boiler"
and
"I have more wood than I could ever burn"
and
"I'm starting to think about when I'm old"

Outdoor boiler may mean you need >2X the wood. Or more, depending on who you ask.
Just moving it around when you are "older" could be quite a task.

The only people I ever knew who were happy with outdoor boilers either just paid for the uninstalled thick-wall CU, or never used wood for heating before.

For supplimential heat, might look into bagged or bulk small coal and a small burner.
A ton of decent coal is a whole lot of heat in a reasonably well insulated house.
Might try calling dealers around Clymer (sp?).

All I know for sure is when they were complaing about the cost of coal being $350, I said "Yea! My last bill was almost $300 too!"
They meant for the year, for coal
I meant for the month, for nat gas.
G-

[tomw]

I know several folks with those outdoor boilers and the only one that is at all happy is the guy with a huge one that heats dairy barn, shop, garage, house and water for the entire place. He loads it with a loader and huge sections of log.

Everyone else says they use huge amounts of wood and from my watching them in action they burn fast and hard right up until the fire is in its sweet spot and then they shut off the air. I think they need a bigger reservoir for thermal storage and a better algorythm for how it works.

Size the thermal storage to absorb an entire load of woods BTUs and burn the fire hard and fast til its used up.

But I prefer a freestanding stove. We have acres of wood and a lot of stockpiled logs with a full wood shed so wood is here to stay. If I get too crippled up to cut and split myself I have a neighbor kid who will do the work for part of the cordwood.

Anyway, check into them before you dive in they have some issues like poor efficiency and smoking like smokehouse half the time. Put it downwind of the house.

You couldn't give me one.

Tom

[Wolvenar]

I have one, and  Tom is right on the money..
You need to burn these things full out until empty keeping the fire at peak.
But even with the thermal capacity of the cement its heating, I am planning a lot more storage in water tanks.
This is a lot to do with a bad problem trying to keep a steady temperature, I either get it to hot in the house for a long time while the cement cools, or it takes forever to heat up. I am pretty sure I can calm this problem with enough storage so I can draw out the time at lower temps to push the heat into the cement, instead of it all happening only when there is a fire.

Although I cannot say I have burned all that much more wood than i did with a standard forced air indoor wood burner.  We averaged 4 -5 cord then, and the first year with this was 4 cord and this year just under 1
It was a very warm winter in Mn standards which made the wood furnace almost unusable because of that yoyo effect..