Author Topic: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker  (Read 18981 times)

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Offline birdhouse

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 10:24:15 am »
interesting thoughts chris!

the mr coffee 12 cupper i was having problems with just has an on off switch also.  no clock, or timer ect. 

Quote
the ProSine has built-in GFCI protection via auto-shutdown if it detects a fault.

i don't know if that is true.  they make the prosine 1800 either set up for hard wiring, or with a standard GFCI outlet on the front.  why would they use a GFCI if the inverter already has that protection built in?  the screen on my unit just says "system shutdown"nwhile beeping.  the same message comes up when i overload it from welding too much with the dials maxed. 

you could very well be right about the coffee maker shorting.  even very short (duration) shorts could create spikes large enough to overload the inverter. 

i won't be back up to my place for two weeks, but i'll try the GFCI on a genset trick, and also watch the inverters screen while coffee is being brewed!

i should really get a kill-a-watt meter too!

adam


Offline Watt

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 12:24:42 pm »
Does the coffee maker have a two or three prong plug?
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Offline birdhouse

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 06:53:54 pm »
watt-
two prong

Offline Wolvenar

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 08:02:30 pm »
Well that kinda wrecks the GFI possibility.

I am guessing either a short, or its some sort of strange setup that has a large capacitor for one reason or another.
Maybe to stop the clicks when it kicks in and out. I remember hearing this in the radio at my grandpas all the time when the coffee pot heater turned on and off via the chincy  bi-metal thermostat.
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 08:18:50 pm »
Well that kinda wrecks the GFI possibility.

Not necessarily.  Most appliances have two prong plugs and they can still have a ground fault which will trip GFCI protection on a grounded neutral system.

All single phase residential power in the US and Canada uses grounded neutral, and most all inverters that are UL Listed for use in the US and Canada have it as well.
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Offline Wolvenar

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 08:23:05 pm »
Kinda unlikely to be tripping it even with possibility.
I would bet it sits on plastic feet, with no path to ground to trip it.
I might be missing something though, since I'm not there to see.

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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2012, 08:32:52 pm »
i don't know if that is true.  they make the prosine 1800 either set up for hard wiring, or with a standard GFCI outlet on the front.  why would they use a GFCI if the inverter already has that protection built in?

Because if it's a UL458 compliant inverter, with the inverter used as the service (bonded neutral) it has to have auto-shutdown on ground fault.  The model with the built-in GFCI plug does not have a bonded neutral because it's designed for RV or marine use, which requires a floating neutral.  The hard-wire model with the relay in it has a bonded neutral.

I looked at those inverters for our RV, but went with an AIMS 3 kW instead because the Prosine didn't have quite enough power to run some of the stuff in our RV.
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2012, 08:43:39 pm »
I would bet it sits on plastic feet, with no path to ground to trip it.

You don't always need a path to ground to cause nuisance tripping on GFCI.  All it takes is a case or frame to hot conductor fault, or certain resistive heating loads to cause nuisance tripping when there is no real ground fault problem at all.  Nine times out of 10, if you take a 100-150 foot cord, wrap it in a coil and plug it in to a GFCI outlet, and try to run something with it it, it will trip it.

That's why I think there's something wrong in the coffee maker.  There's obviously nothing wrong with the inverter.
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Offline Watt

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2012, 09:10:13 pm »
watt-
two prong

Do you happen to have a gfci in any other location fed by the mains?  Maybe you could plug it in to the house before you return it.  Would trip if there is a problem.... 
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 09:40:34 pm »
I thought adam was off-grid with this setup and that's why I suggested trying that with the generator and a GFCI outlet wired up to it.  Just to get a second opinion from another GFCI on that coffee maker.  If it's like the Made in China Mr. Coffee units we've had, I'm not impressed with how long they last, or how well they're made.
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Offline ghurd

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2012, 07:25:14 am »
Can get Mr Coffee's with just a switch at Family Dollar for $10.
I bought 3 or 4 one day...  "Pause & Serve"?  On the 1st 2 or 3, the pots were not high enough to push the plunger up to let the coffee out.  Overflowed the basket, vinegar (cleaning cycle) all over everywhere.
The one that worked worked fine.

The one it replaced was a higher end coffee maker brand.
Would not heat up.
Thermal fuse was shot.  Naturally, no numbers on it.  Ordered one direct from the company (cost more than the $10 machine).  Replacement had numbers on it.
Thermal fuse blew again in 2 days.
Up to RatShak to get another one for $1 this time.  Worked 1 or 2 pots.  Back to RatShak.  Repeat repeatedly.
Cycled fine, like it should?  Not sure if the thermostat or the element was the problem.

After replacing the fuse too many times, and too many dozen $1.50 cups of coffee from the gas station,
went with the Family Dollar $10 Mr Coffee as a temporary solution and had 0 problems with it for a long time, but the woman I'm married to decided she wanted one with a timer.
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Offline Watt

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2012, 10:09:29 am »
I thought adam was off-grid with this setup and that's why I suggested trying that with the generator and a GFCI outlet wired up to it.  Just to get a second opinion from another GFCI on that coffee maker.  If it's like the Made in China Mr. Coffee units we've had, I'm not impressed with how long they last, or how well they're made.
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You may be right Chris, I took his first post to mean he stays somewhere besides his ranch he had visited that weekend. 

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Offline madlabs

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2012, 03:32:16 pm »
I have the same cheap Mr Coffee 12 cup maker, no electronics just a switch. Even my cheap chinese 1kW inverter (aims I think) would run it. My Trace 2512 thinks nothing of it at all, even the fridge or whatever can kick on while it's brewing.

So I don't know what is going on but it does seem odd. It should work no problem.

Jonathan
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2012, 11:25:00 pm »
but the woman I'm married to decided she wanted one with a timer.

LOL!  Your Spousal Unit wants one with a timer, my Spousal Unit went to like 7 different stores to find one without a timer.

The one we had with a computer in it would make the coffee fine for in the morning.  But we usually don't drink it all for breakfast and there's some left for dinner.  But the problem with it was that it would shut the heating plate off after awhile and the coffee was cold so we had to microwave it to heat it up for dinner.

With just an on/off switch WE got control of when that confounded thing gets turned off, and our coffee is hot when we come in for dinner and want a grab a cup   :P
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Offline birdhouse

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Re: inverter doesn't like my coffee maker
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2012, 11:48:21 pm »
i think there is something fishy going on with that coffee maker. 

yes, my vaca spot is off grid, but i live, for the most part, on grid in portland, OR. 

after reading all this, i'm convinced that the coffee maker would probably run fine on a 20A grid circuit.  it may produce shorts up to 4000-5000w, but for VERY short times.  i'd bet a grid 20A circuit would hold that just fine.   i'm continually amazed in old commercial buildings where i purposefully short the hot and neutral with an old junk screwdriver, and how many sparks fly before the breaker finally flips!  (gloves, and sunglasses on for these jobbies)!

but with an offgrid setup, my surge is maxed at 2900w, and i don't think it goes past that by even 100w. 

in conclusion:  i think chinese coffee makers are built to abuse 20A grid circuits, but not off grid inverters.  i may be able to buy 15 of the identical coffee maker, and have 2 or three that work just fine with my inverter, but all the others may not. 

i plan on buying a completely different brand/style next time up, and returning the one i bought the first time on my drive back home. 

and yes, the coffee maker was far from ground.  sitting on a wooden bench, on it's plastic feet.  basically a non-issue. 

adam