Author Topic: Classic 150 Diversion setup  (Read 12255 times)

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Offline Wolvenar

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2012, 02:26:47 pm »
Yes the Classic is on my must have list also, but wont be for a while.  :-\
Trying to make power from alternative energy any which way I can.
Just to abuse what I make. (and run this site)

Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2012, 02:16:56 pm »
I wanted to report back on using the Waste Not Hi Mode in the Classic for water heating, mainly for Watt.

I've had this set up for a few weeks now, and it works totally awesome.  This is not a voltage-based "dump".  The Classic is smart enough so that it will only turn on the water heater if there is excess power available from the RE system for the particular charge state it's in.

In Bulk MPPT I never see the water heater come on.  But once it gets to Absorb voltage the Classic looks at what the batteries are taking for current vs what it determines is available from the panels.  If there's more power available than what is being used by the bank it activates the Aux port and we start heating water.  In the initial stages of Absorb when the bank is still pulling up to 80 amps it will cycle the water heater on and off to maintain the Absorb voltage.  As the bank gets charged up it leaves the water heater on more.  At the end of the Absorb stage the water heater is on all the time.

I have the ending amps for Absorb set at 30 amps.  So when the batteries are pulling 30 amps it drops into float and finishes the last 5% of the battery charging.  Once in float the water heater is always on until the stat kicks it out at 190 degrees.

The solar Classic interacts beautifully with the wind Classics.  Even if there is little or no solar power, if the wind system gets the bank up to the Absorb level and holds it there for the max Absorb time set in the solar Classic, it activates the Aux1 port and starts heating water with wind power.

Both of our 55 gallon water heaters are up to 190 degrees by mid-afternoon for the whole last two weeks.  We have so much hot water heated with free electricity (well, not "free", when you figure in equipment costs, but still.....) that my wife has been using her dish washer just to use it up and cool the water heaters down a bit so we don't get burned when we take a shower or something.

I have used various relay type voltage based controllers to do this, from Coleman Air ones to Morningstar RD-1's.  This is the first time I have had a smart enough controller to properly charge the bank, and use the excess power to operate a water heater without using PWM schemes for "dump".  The PWM schemes are fine, but it requires an SSR and driving water heater elements at part of their rated power with PWM does not provide efficient water heating.  Using a simple contactor and powering the element at it's full rated 2,000 watts @ 240 volts is about 95% electrically efficient, and it works to actually get LOTS of hot water.

If we get some poor power days, our two water heaters can store enough hot water for about five days if we cut back on the excess use (like the dish washer) before the water gets too cold to take a comfortable shower.  And on a good we can heat them both from well temp to 190 with this system in one day.  I have figured out that it takes about 36 kWh of power to heat both of our heaters from well temp to 190.

I have to giggle with this system.  When all the energy saving folks are promoting turning the thermostat down in your electric water heaters to save on power, we got ours cranked to the Max.  And when we turn on the faucet we get hot water with a good head of steam on it    ;D
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Offline Watt

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 04:06:30 pm »
Chris, thank you for the update.  I am very interested in this setup of yours.  I am going to lowes this evening to get an additional water heater and will start gathering the parts to ' copy ' you.   :P

I will go back and read the thread to get a better understanding of what you have there before I begin the million questions to you.  Anyway, thanks again.

Mike
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2012, 06:34:58 pm »
Well, before you start with the million questions, I'll just tell you.  It's really simple.

The water heaters come with 4500 watt elements.  You replace those with what fits your RE system output.  I'm using 2 kilo watters.  The primary heater is the one that has the hot water pipes coming out of it and going to the house.  The pre-heater is the other one that has the cold water line coming into it.  You can use one, or two, or three - whatever you want.  We got two 55 galloners

The top element in the primary heater has a thermostatical thing with a swapping relay on it.  You set that at 125° and when it gets to 125 the swapping happens and it sends the power to the bottom element.  You crank the stat wide open on the bottom one.  Ours goes up to 165 but it really heats up to 180-190 at Max Dawg.

You replace the bottom relay thingy with one of them swapper ones like what's on the top element.  So when the bottom gets to Max Dawg it clicks and the swapping thing happens.  Except the swapping thing now sends the power to the top element in the pre-heater, which is set at 125.  When the top in the pre-heater gets to 125 the swapping thing happens for the last time and it sends the power to the bottom element, which is set at Max Dawg.

When the bottom element in the preheater reaches Max Dawg you're all done heating water.

The Aux 1 port on the Classic outputs 200 mA 12 volt DC.  You run a little ice cube relay with that, using the ice cube relay as a pilot to turn on a contactor with a 24 volt (or whatever voltage system you got) coil.  The contactor turns on the power to the water heaters.

And finally you put a manual switch in to engage your contactor to heat water in the event your RE system don't make enough power and you have to emergency heat some with the genset.
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Offline tomw

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2012, 06:45:55 pm »
Chris;

I just love it when you talk dirty like that! ;D :o

Tom
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2012, 07:31:40 pm »
The Aux 1 port on the Classic outputs 200 mA 12 volt DC.  You run a little ice cube relay with that, using the ice cube relay as a pilot to turn on a contactor with a 24 volt (or whatever voltage system you got) coil.  The contactor turns on the power to the water heaters.

This is photo of my water heater relay box.  I actually got contactors in there and I got a switch for ON, OFF and AUTO:

871-0

872-1

The top right contactor is a 25 amp Honeywell with a 24 volt coil in it.  That's the one that the Classic runs with the ice cube relay.  The Allen-Bradley three poler has a 120 volt coil and that one is the one that closes when I flip the switch to ON.

You only have to switch one leg of the split phase because that's all them swapper relays do in the water heaters, and there's only three wires going to these 240 volt domestic water heaters.  One leg is hot all the time and they switch the other leg to swap from element to element.  The neutral, which isn't really neutral in the water heater, is used for ground.

You only need one relay.  I got two in there just because when I flip my big transfer switch to take my inverters and battery bank offline and power stuff just with the genset, I got no 24 volt power available to run the coil in that 25 amp Honeywell.  But the Allen-Bradley one still works.
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Offline ChrisOlson

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Re: Classic 150 Diversion setup
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2012, 09:48:42 pm »
I just love it when you talk dirty like that! ;D :o

Yeah.  Them water heaters are tricky business.  Before I figured out a way to use all them thermostatical things in there on two heaters, we popped the steam valve on the primary heater twice in one week.  My wife was not impressed.
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Chris