Author Topic: 15a 24v chinese charger questions  (Read 11856 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline oztules

  • Forum Advisors
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Karma: +105/-8
  • Village idiot
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 09:27:35 pm »
"elucidate"?..... must have found it on a bubble gum wrapper in times past.

With these supplies, they need a current flowing in the transformer circuit all the time, so they need a minimum load, or the book keeping part has no knowledge of whats going on, and so can't make sensible decisions. This is done by a big resistor on the output that just soaks up current, and keeps the pwm working into a load, some of that load  (tiny )can also be in the divider. Too high an impedance and noise can occur in the feedback loop, and instability is the result.

In the series of these I played with, they use a zener in series with the divider, so the currents are probably not what you expected.

The slope of the gain of the comparator is set in a feedback loop at the pwm chip, so is not likely effected....

The clincher is that they give you a trim pot to modify the voltage .... so they don't consider this an issue either if you think about it. ;)

Adam,
I was thinking slightly higher setting ability, because we don't know the slope of the comparator. It may ease off a bit  fast as it gets close to Vmax, so if you want to push it hard in equalise to stir up the electrolyte, a bit of headroom may be useful to frighten em a  bit ... or not. You'll know when you try it... or try it at home.

Just figure if your burning fuel to charge , you don't want to see half an amp for the last hour etc....  But testing is knowing.

Anyway it is easy to change as we have seen.


.................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline birdhouse

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Portland, OR USA
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 08:36:24 am »
Ghurd-
it's actually quite comfortable.  there's a brand new "furnace" in the airstream, ducted, and set with a thermostat.  the dump load sits below my battery bank in hopes of taking the chill off a bit, though i think that's wishful thinking...

Oz- i started thinking of that last night.  the charger will go to 30.9 right now, but that's unloaded.  IE: open volts.  i'm thinking it won't go quite that high under full load.  i guess time will tell.  thinking it's gonna be atleast a month before the snow levels allow me to drive in there. 

adam

Offline birdhouse

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Portland, OR USA
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions UPDATE
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 01:24:53 pm »
i was able to get up to my place last weekend, though couldn't drive in.  got two trucks with 35" tires stuck.  4 wheeler did pretty good though! 

i hooked the charger to a honda EU 1000 and the bank and fired it up.  you could hear that it made the honda work quite a bit.  battery volts started to rise immediately.  (440Ah @24v).  i ran the charger for around three hours.  during that time, it wreaked of burnt electronic components, but the charger just kept chuggin away. no magic smoke that i saw. 

 then the TS-60 started being the smart end of the rig, and dumping power.  they played nice together.  it was hard to tell, but even though the charger would go to 30.7v unloaded, it seemed to taper off at 30v in use.  the solar was still connected through a different mppt controller, so that is why it was hard to tell. 

all in all, it was the best $35 charger i could imagine.  just hoping that burnt elec smell is maybe just things breaking in??  kinda like new woodstove paint??

adam

Offline Wolvenar

  • Senior Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1474
  • Karma: +40/-0
  • Mr. Murphys pawn
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 02:29:43 pm »
I would guess that its just the new baking away as you suggested.
Time will tell.
You should post some pics of that fun road into your place.  ;)
Trying to make power from alternative energy any which way I can.
Just to abuse what I make. (and run this site)

Offline dang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
  • Karma: +5/-3
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 02:39:03 pm »
Some of the electrical insulation on products from India & China are from recycled rubber that is blessed with a creosote-burnt rubber smell.

You need to visually inspect the device for scorched circuit board area(s) and components near the hot spot(s) being affected even if the hottest places were within design specs...
"It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others" - Anonymous

Offline oztules

  • Forum Advisors
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Karma: +105/-8
  • Village idiot
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 05:12:32 pm »
Nice to see the inverter charger worked.

My experience with pwm power devices, is they work or they don't. The difference is usually measured in milliseconds or less.

Cant understand the electronic smell without total failure, unless the load resistor had foreign matter on it, as it will get hot.... not roasting hot, but too hot to touch. The output inductor can get toasty too, but will not fail under 200c. The next hottest thing is usually the diode block, but less than 100c, and finally the transistors.

The power transformer may heat a bit, and give off a hot lacquer smell, and I can't think of any other bit that will heat , and still function.

These things live on the edge of destruction every 30 thousandth of a second or less, they make the right decision and live, or the wrong decision and blow up ...... every cycle.....

After 3 hours, it all appears that the feedback loops are working, and your "burning" off all the wax and lacquer aromatics... hopefully.

I find them very reliable, and even use one to charge the electric car (bomb) when the wind don't blow.... and have done for years. It does 15A@43v.


...............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline A of J

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 05:26:08 pm »
This is an informative post in so much as it..

Shows that adjustable switch-mode power supplies do make acceptable cost efficient single stage chargers.

That the adjustment range can be changed.

The posts on achieving said increase in voltage range were good, multiple posts tend to stick in my mind better than a single flawless post.

It demonstrates the difficulty in explaining a subject at a level that assumes no previous knowledge, in this post it was achieved well by several posters.

It highlighted the possible pit falls, and gave solutions.

I also used one in the same circumstances as Birdhouse, while I was happy to have mine top out at 27.5V in the knowledge that it could not overcharge my unregulated lead acid batteries, I did wonder about raising the top voltage, now I would be happy to make adjustments.

Well done to all parties.

Allan

Offline ghurd

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 442
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • GHurd Solar
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2012, 05:49:55 pm »
Shows that adjustable switch-mode power supplies do make acceptable cost efficient single stage chargers.

Not always.
I (go figure) have smoked them, almost always.
Mine were removed from something else, and designed for other purposes.
14~28VDCout?, to 7AH 12V battery, usually.
I guess the ones I tried were not current limited?

They were however VERY cost effective (free).   ???

Nice to see the inverter charger worked.

My experience with pwm power devices, is they work or they don't. The difference is usually measured in milliseconds or less.

Agreed.
And agreed.
G-

Offline A of J

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2012, 06:12:12 pm »
G I suspect the problems you have experienced were due mainly to your location together with inadvertently selecting a southern hemisphere model.

Using the wrong model can cause the guyrencryptamonitor to malfunction, if you must use a southern hemisphere model turn it upside down, but don't impede the cooling fan air flow.

One can usually detect the intended area of use by looking for an 'S' or 'N' in the serial number, better luck next time.

Allan

Offline oztules

  • Forum Advisors
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Karma: +105/-8
  • Village idiot
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2012, 08:29:07 pm »
Ghurd..... Alan is right.... its that hemispheric thing again... :o

Cheap pwm supplies )free by the thousand now I suspect where you are) come from computer power supplies.

They are fun to convert, and when you do, you have precise current and voltage control.

This one I use as a power supply for all my circuits under development, as I can limit the current and not blow up transistors.... any where from .2A to 18A and from about 7v to 28v...... and it only delivers the preset current if you short it out.... does not care.
839-0

841-1

Here is another in battery charging/maintenance mode, set for 13.9v max 5A. It drives the back up battery for the "in testing" solar hot water system.840-2

You can tell from the spider webs on the current control opening, that this experiment has been running for a long time.... the board you can see has pwm for the motor as well, so in poor light, the pump runs slow, and as the temp in the panels gets a greater differential, it speeds up to full speed. Must do a write up of the system and circuits one day . :-[




................oztules

edit. Just noticed the bright spot on the scope..... am fiddling with a circuit for 8hz sine wave..... scan rate is very slow so the spot is NOT that bad in reality......my excuse and I'm sticking to it.... ::)
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline rossw

  • Senior Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 879
  • Karma: +35/-0
  • Grumpy-old-Unix-Admin
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2012, 10:04:20 pm »
edit. Just noticed the bright spot on the scope..... am fiddling with a circuit for 8hz sine wave..... scan rate is very slow so the spot is NOT that bad in reality......my excuse and I'm sticking to it.... ::)

You must have felt me CRINGE when I saw that. I was going to write you a nastygram - but you owned up already!

Offline birdhouse

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Portland, OR USA
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2012, 10:49:50 pm »
wow-
never thought there would be this much interest in a chinese charger   :D

Quote
It demonstrates the difficulty in explaining a subject at a level that assumes no previous knowledge, in this post it was achieved well by several posters.

this was key for me!  i'm kinda an idiot with small electronics, yet the folks here basically held my hand through the mod, and it came out great!  so thank you oz, and ross, and any others i forgot.

i'm thinking it was some chinese pcb's or something burning off in there.  i mean the charger basically went from shelf, to FULL MODIFIED duty for three hours.  the fan ran the whole time, but the air coming out wasn't all that warm. 

next up is installing the boost circuit i bought for my wind turbine.  that will take some hand holding for sure.   :-\

and for wolv, since he asked:





and what i was working on:  roof electrical:


adam

Offline ghurd

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 442
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • GHurd Solar
Re: 15a 24v chinese charger questions
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2012, 08:29:53 am »
G I suspect the problems you have experienced were due mainly to your location together with inadvertently selecting a southern hemisphere model.

Using the wrong model can cause the guyrencryptamonitor to malfunction, if you must use a southern hemisphere model turn it upside down, but don't impede the cooling fan air flow.

One can usually detect the intended area of use by looking for an 'S' or 'N' in the serial number, better luck next time.

Allan

That was the problem.  The malfunctiong guyrencryptamonitor sent an upside-down spike and fried the rest of the circuit.  The serial numbers verify the semiconductor components are intended for use in a metric hemisphere.

Oz,
The ones I played with (meaning smoked) were far smaller than PC power supplies.
Think like 12V to USB or newer cell phone charger kind of circuit sizes.
G-