Author Topic: Toy Turbine #3  (Read 11727 times)

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Offline ksouers

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 08:43:26 pm »
Jeff,
This is an uber cool project! How many amps are you getting out of it? What is the diameter of the rotor and stator?
I'd really like to see the other project, too. This is what I was looking to do when starting my first turbine.

Thanks for sharing this project.

Kevin
As far from the city as I can get but still keep my job.

Offline JeffD

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2012, 12:26:39 pm »
Hi ksouers,

The rotor diameters are 95mm (3.75in).  Thickness is 2.4mm (3/32").  The rotors were cut from an old metal case I found at the local dump.  I used a drill, hacksaw and file to cut out the rotors and clean them up.

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The stator outside diameter including the mounting ring is 108mm (4.25").

Offline ghurd

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2012, 12:40:54 pm »
Very cool Jeff.
G-

Offline JeffD

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2012, 01:39:28 am »
In 2008 I built a data logger based on the design found on The Backshed website but used a different micro controller.  The purpose of the data logger was to obtain relevant data from my toy turbines so that I could evaluate their performance and see if my tinkering had any effect on their performance.

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In March of 2010 I finally got the data logger connected to the 0.6m turbine and for the next 8 months the data logger recorded several gigs worth of data.  The parameters recorded were wind speed (anemometer just below the turbine), turbine RPM, current to battery, boost input voltage, air temperature, and battery voltage.

Just plotting the raw data did not reveal any useful information.  You could sort of see some curves but you really had to use your imagination.  The curves did not appear until I learned about creating wind speed bins and using statistical methods to group the data into bins.

So here are the plots of the data obtained from the 0.6m toy turbine running from March 2010 to October 2010.  The accuracy of the data is ... well... it gives you a rough idea of what is going on.  And in the end the turbine is just a toy :).

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The red line is the blade power at 20%.

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The boost converter is powered by the turbine and starts outputting when the boost input voltage is about 0.8vdc.  The original plan was to have the alternator putting out about 6vdc into the boost converter at about 3m/s but as you can see from the graphs that did not happen. After casting and testing the stator I realised that there was a problem.  I rechecked my notes and to my dismay they said to do 10 turns per coil but  I had done 8 turns per coil.  Oh well.

I thought overall efficiency would have been up around 25% but the turbine just barely hits 20% after about 7m/s when the main rectifiers take over from the boost converter.  At first I blamed the boost converter for the low performance below 7m/s but after separately testing the boost converter efficiency,  I now know that its the blades.  I calculated the Reynolds numbers for the blades at the low wind speeds and looked up some airfoil Cp/Cd graphs at low Reynolds numbers.  Michael Selig's website http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ has a wealth of info on low Reynolds airfoils.  My blades have a thickness of about 9% and use an airfoil similar to a Clark Y.  Looks like the Clark Y is not very good below a Reynolds of 60,000 (high drag and low lift).  Anyway, that is another story.

The boost converter definitely needed to be adjusted/tuned.  The turbine was running a little fast from 4.5 m/s to about 7m/s.  Design TSR for the blades was 6.  It took about 2 weeks of tweaking before I had a flatter TSR graph below 7 m/s.  In the end it didn't improve the turbine output performance much.

The turbine furls at about 12 m/s and after that the power output drops drastically.  I was hoping to get a more gradual drop in power or even better would be the power output plateaus at 12 m/s and above.  The stator only has 22 AWG wire and I didn't feel comfortable with more than 4.5 amps going through the stator so chose an early furl of 12 m/s.  Having the blades spinning at over 2000 RPM was also a concern.  Unfortunately furling is not always exact and output amps have been higher for very short periods of time.  The turbine has been through 2 hurricanes and 7 tropical storms and is still spinning after two years so I guess its ok.

Offline ksouers

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2012, 07:46:00 am »
Jeff,
Just a toy? I think not!
Will this small turbine power your home and take it off grid? No, of course not.

Is it useful in a small RE system, the data seems to indicate that yes it is. It would seem to make a fine augment to a small solar array. It has the potential to put something back into the batteries during off-peak hours.

But as a teaching and a demonstration tool it appears excellent. In this regard it looks like a rousing success. Congratulations.

Thanks for posting the data.

Kevin
As far from the city as I can get but still keep my job.

Offline Dave

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 01:55:51 pm »

Thanks for the look Jeff,

I love this little stuff..Lets those of us without the room for a full sized machine to have a hand in the fun of building, even if we have to carry it to another site to fly it  :-*

Great job!

Cheers, Dave

Offline ghurd

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 10:03:13 pm »
What they said.
It wasn't all that long ago that a 4' was a real windmill, and a 6' was large.
Now, to some people, a 10' is "small".

I don't need to power a 3000W load with a 400W inverter, and watch the inverter blow up 50 times, just to say I know what the caculator says.

You built what you built, you learned what you learned, and you proved what you proved.
Cudos to you!
G-




Offline charlie_ruizpr

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2012, 11:13:08 pm »
hey jeffd, nice project you have going there.  Where can I find the hughs blade calculator?

Offline JeffD

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Re: Toy Turbine #3
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 10:38:14 am »
You can find the link on this page: http://www.scoraigwind.com/#older
Also have a read of his blade theory notes which will help in understanding the spread sheet.  The link can also be found on the same page.

Hugh also has his older wind turbine plan books available for free and can be found on the same page.  Highly recommended if you have never built a wind turbine from scratch before.