Author Topic: RS485 comms reverse engineering?  (Read 863 times)

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Offline welshman

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RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« on: January 31, 2017, 05:59:59 PM »
i have an arduino uno connected up to a max485 ttl converter getting info from a shunt / voltage monitor control box made by ming he.

im looking at it as a method of monitoring state of charge

i have data coming down the serial line, but not having much luck understanding it or if i've even got the correct baud etc. here is a chunk of the data in decimal each byte seperated by a -. somewhere in there is maybe voltage / current voltage and time. but no idea if im even close.

i've contacted the manufacturer but "waiting" a response.

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255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-129-32-28-32-32-3-32-160-254-255-255-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-51-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-28-32-32-3-32-160-254-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-28-32-32-3-32-160-254-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-28-32-32-3-32-160-254-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-28-32-32-3-32-160-254-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-28-32-32-3-32-160-254-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-255-255-255-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-160-129-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-76-32-12-32-5-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-160-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-160-129-32-84-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-92-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-255-255-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-160-129-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-5-7------32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-5---5-7--2-2-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-40-32-140-32-32-3-32-32-253-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-41-32-204-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-255-255-255-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-41-32-204-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-41-32-204-32-160-3-32-32-255-255-255-57-28-32-255-57-10-32-92-32-12-32-117-129-32-41-32-

Online frackers

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2017, 08:03:05 PM »
With that many values of 255 I'd expect that your Uno baud rate is way too high as its interpreting a single bit as a byte. Try at 1200, 2400 & 9600, also try inverting the data as RS485 is balanced, it comes out the wrong way up if you have the wires crossed.
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Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 07:00:41 AM »
With that many values of 255 I'd expect that your Uno baud rate is way too high as its interpreting a single bit as a byte. Try at 1200, 2400 & 9600, also try inverting the data as RS485 is balanced, it comes out the wrong way up if you have the wires crossed.

ive had a tinker with your suggestions.

with 28800 baud on the rs485 im getting this data repettition

223-48-16-208-16-86-16-144-224-176-16-95-33-16-241-95-48-252
223-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252
223-48-17-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-32-31-33-16-243-95-48-252

223 seems to be start and 252 seems to be end.

i dont think it's just coincidence that im getting a repeating sequence here?

223-48-16-240-16-21-16-176-161-144-33-63-33-16-241-95-48-252-222-48-16-240-16-21-16-176-161-144-33-63-32-16-241-94-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-177-96-144-33-63-33-16-241-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-181-160-144-33-63-32-16-241-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-176-161-144-33-58-33-16-247-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-176-161-144-33-63-33-16-241-95-48-250-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-177-224-144-33-63-33-16-241-95-48-124-36-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-32-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-78-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-145-224-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-32-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-222-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-224-176-32-31-33-16-243-94-48-252-222-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-33-31-32-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-145-161-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-222-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-96-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-200-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-33-31-32-16-243-95-48-252-200-48-16-240-16-20-16-144-161-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-72-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-161-176-32-30-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-144-160-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-21-16-145-161-176-33-31-33-16-243-95-48-252-223-48-16-240-16-2

Offline rossw

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 01:48:42 PM »
with 28800 baud on the rs485 im getting this data repettition

i dont think it's just coincidence that im getting a repeating sequence here?

With a repeating sequence being sent - at any speed - I would expect to see the same thing on your receiver, even if it's gibberish.

In 45 years of industrial and communications work, I can't remember ever seeing a device use 28,800bps. ever.

I believe Frackers is right, you have your baudrate set far too high. If you don't have a CRO then the trial-and-error system will have to do, but I bet you good money it'll be a "standard" speed.

19,200 is about as fast as the majority of stuff is likely to go.
9,600 is much more common.
4,800 is possible
2,400 is likely
1,200 is possible

Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 06:17:29 AM »
with 28800 baud on the rs485 im getting this data repettition

i dont think it's just coincidence that im getting a repeating sequence here?

With a repeating sequence being sent - at any speed - I would expect to see the same thing on your receiver, even if it's gibberish.

In 45 years of industrial and communications work, I can't remember ever seeing a device use 28,800bps. ever.

I believe Frackers is right, you have your baudrate set far too high. If you don't have a CRO then the trial-and-error system will have to do, but I bet you good money it'll be a "standard" speed.

19,200 is about as fast as the majority of stuff is likely to go.
9,600 is much more common.
4,800 is possible
2,400 is likely
1,200 is possible

at 9600 i seem to be getting patterns

151-0-21-40-250-151-17-224-61-151-108-23-144-149-8-21-42-234-5-98-23-130-176-151-2-21-164-253-151-177-21-13-151-9-21-40-234-151-2-21-164-149-17-224-61-151-54-7-129-122-151-23-129-42-245-149-9-21-176-250-149-9-21-176-250-5-55-203-61-149-8-21-176-250-151-5-99-61-151-8-21-176-250-149-8-21-176-250-149-146-149-232-151-73-21-176-250-151-8-21-176-250-151-177-21-13-151-8-21-176-232-151-17-224-61-149-8-21-176-250-151-8-21-176-250-151-5-98-61-149-73-21-176-250-151-17-225-13-149-8-21-176-250-151-5-99-61-149-23-129-104-253-151-73-21-104-250-149-5-96-61-151-8-21-104-250-151-2-21-164-253-151-18-65-61-151-73-21-106-250-151-73-21-104-242-149-146-149-250-151-8-21-104-250-151-17-224-61-149-8-21-104-248-151-8-21-104-248-133-17-224-61-151-73-21-104-250-151-146-163-203-61-151-2-21-164-253-151-8-21-104-250-151-5-224-61-151-8-21-104-250-149-17-224-61-149-23-20-165-226-149-55-99-61-151-3-23-164-253-149-146-149-250-151-8-21-106-250-151-73-21-104-250-149-17-224-61-151-8-21-106-250-151-17-225-61-151-8-21-164-253-151-8-21-172-253-149-146-149-250-151-8-23-104-250-151-7-99-61-151-8-21-164-253-151-8-21-104-248-151-17-224-61-

151-8-21-240-250-
151-146-21-248-
151-8-21-240-250-
151-8-21-240-248-
151-17-21-250-
149-8-21-240-248-
151-17-224-29-
151-8-21-240-248-
151-8-21-240-250-
149-5-224-29-
151-8-21-240-250-
151-2-21-240-248-
149-18-65-29-
149-8-21-240-250-
149-53-99-29-
149-34-21-131-240-
149-55-99-29-
151-23-69-104-240-
151-8-21-104-234-
151-130-21-234-
151-2-21-180-245-
151-8-23-180-245-
151-161-23-13-
151-65-23-106-234-
151-17-224-29-
151-8-21-104-232-

Offline eraser3000

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 09:53:22 AM »
Next thing I would do,

Do you know what values you should be getting? Does the device have any software you can plug inline or anything that will give you the values?

Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 11:49:58 AM »
Next thing I would do,

Do you know what values you should be getting? Does the device have any software you can plug inline or anything that will give you the values?

There is a receiver that shows the voltage and current and up time. but the values don't seem to match.

Offline MadScientist267

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 10:48:26 PM »
Signed vs unsigned?

I ran up against this type of thing with 2 unos, found the issue to be in how I was forming the data... Serial.write() vs Serial.print()... Since you don't have control over how it's written at the transmit end, you may need to do some translation in some form at the receiving end...?

Just what came to mind looking at the data... maybe provides a little insight hopefully.

Also, since you didn't specify... just going to point out that 255 is the "nothing to see here" character for one version, -1 is its equivalent for the other, when you're directly processing the stream without the Serial.available() call being used. Might help with the sanity checks along the way for things like baud.

Steve
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Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 12:20:44 PM »
Signed vs unsigned?

I ran up against this type of thing with 2 unos, found the issue to be in how I was forming the data... Serial.write() vs Serial.print()... Since you don't have control over how it's written at the transmit end, you may need to do some translation in some form at the receiving end...?

Just what came to mind looking at the data... maybe provides a little insight hopefully.

Also, since you didn't specify... just going to point out that 255 is the "nothing to see here" character for one version, -1 is its equivalent for the other, when you're directly processing the stream without the Serial.available() call being used. Might help with the sanity checks along the way for things like baud.

Steve

thanks, will have a play with that.

Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2017, 04:41:07 PM »
Got a little further with this

on 9600 baud on the rs485 im getting somewhat reliable results. i figure out what the start and stop bytes are and have got data now to play with.

i have done a few comparisons of the voltage/current against the values

17,80,15,15,17 = 12.50V / 0.0A
17,80,28,15,1D = 12.34V / 0.6A
17,80,B,15,1D = 12.50V / 0.6A
17,84,2,15,1D = 12.50V / 0.7A
17,8A,1,15,1D = 12.32V / 1.9A
17,0,0,15,1D = 12.30V / 2.0A
17,80,1,15,1D = 12.34V / 2.0A
17,0,29,15,1D = 12.25V / 2.2A
17,80,29,15,1D = 12.26V / 2.2A
17,14,2B,15,1D = 12.20V / 2.2A
17,80,2A,15,1D = 12.19v / 2.2A
17,A4,2A,15,1D = 12.20V / 2.3A
17,80,1,15,1D = 12.18V / 2.4A
17,80,0,15,1D = 12.19V / 2.4A
17,84,A1,15,1D = 12.19V / 2.5A
17,84,A3,15,1D = 12.18V / 2.5A
17,0,A2,15,1D = 12.17V / 2.5A
17,0,80,15,1D = 12.17V / 2.6A

Im seeing a pattern but im not exactly sure what to do next, does the information jump out at anyone here? Some of those bytes may be more information than just the voltage and current, but that's all im interested in extracting.

Online frackers

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2017, 05:32:38 PM »
I can't see any pattern as the data is listed - the voltage values must be at least 16 bits as they vary by as little as 10mV  (e.g. lines 10-12) so based on that 3rd/4th bytes might be voltage (with some scaling factor) except that similar values don't come up with the same voltage!!

I think you're getting closer but not quite there yet!! Might be worth trying with the data lines reversed but keeping at 9600bps
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Offline rossw

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2017, 05:38:22 PM »
I can't see any pattern as the data is listed - the voltage values must be at least 16 bits as they vary by as little as 10mV  (e.g. lines 10-12) so based on that 3rd/4th bytes might be voltage (with some scaling factor) except that similar values don't come up with the same voltage!!

I think you're getting closer but not quite there yet!! Might be worth trying with the data lines reversed but keeping at 9600bps

I only partly agree. With 5 bytes, it's entirely possible they're using their own protocol, and there's nothing to say they are not using 8 bit binary and ignoring all the usual ASCII control codes. 5 bytes would give them 35 or 40 bits (7 or 8 bit RS232) which is enough for 16 bits each. It's also entirely possible they're sending an offset from some arbitary point. Say, 8V for example. Then you can still fit high resolution in far fewer bits.


Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2017, 07:36:46 PM »
thanks for the input. well i've decided to try to figure out the baud rate.

i've connected up a logic analyser to the A/B pins of the rs485. i can see the pulses, but in order to calculate the baud rate i need to measure the pulse. however depending on what speed i pick the pulse size changes.. i can do 4mhz down to 10 hz, which should i pick?

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2017, 08:16:37 PM »
thanks for the input. well i've decided to try to figure out the baud rate.

i've connected up a logic analyser to the A/B pins of the rs485. i can see the pulses, but in order to calculate the baud rate i need to measure the pulse. however depending on what speed i pick the pulse size changes.. i can do 4mhz down to 10 hz, which should i pick?


First thing: monitor the line to determine its quiescent state: high or low. This will at least let you determine if it's true or inverted.

Once you've got that, look for the first pulse after a quiet period. This first pulse will be the start bit. That's your timing.

Offline welshman

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Re: RS485 comms reverse engineering?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2017, 06:37:40 AM »
thanks for the input. well i've decided to try to figure out the baud rate.

i've connected up a logic analyser to the A/B pins of the rs485. i can see the pulses, but in order to calculate the baud rate i need to measure the pulse. however depending on what speed i pick the pulse size changes.. i can do 4mhz down to 10 hz, which should i pick?


First thing: monitor the line to determine its quiescent state: high or low. This will at least let you determine if it's true or inverted.

Once you've got that, look for the first pulse after a quiet period. This first pulse will be the start bit. That's your timing.

i got the signals for A and B coming into the logic sniffer, A is the inverse of B and they match exactly so doesn't seem to be any inteference. Nice equal gaps between the bursts of data. Looks like im getting a good signal.

What i don't understand is the measurement side of things. Depending on which capture speed i select, the measurement changes. I tried also using the built in UART analyser and the baud rate measurement kept increasing as i increased the capture speed up to 500,khz, anything over that and i lose part of the signal as the capture time is too short.


Here is the capture at 10khz, the first timing is 100us, that means 9600 baud? but if i increase to 50khz the timing is no longer 100us.