Author Topic: mini vawt axial flux  (Read 932 times)

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Offline niall

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mini vawt axial flux
« on: November 23, 2016, 03:26:31 PM »
this is something that i need to add  ( i wasnt planning on it )  as part of a training course i,m on  . the course involves 3D printing so i thought that a mini vawt vane structure might  be ok for the printer , so far so good.... ish  , something like Ed lenzs coffey can vawt might be fun or a small helix

( that would be a bridge to far to draw though )

problem is it has also to be a functional thing in the end so i need to add a really tiny cogless running alt to it , if it could put .5/1 watt in to 2 nicads that would be fine , it would justify its existance

i was looking around for bits and leftovers that could be cobbled together for an axial this small and pulled this apart

 ila_rendered

theres 2 platters  ( adjustable air gap maybe ) some nice bearings and one coil ready to slot in ,  i,ve got 8/9 small neos ready for the cause

if the the vane ever gets printed ( big if on that one ) it could be mounted straight on to it , spin it and it lights a few leds

what i,m wondering is ....would just one coil be pratical ? ....i,m guessing maybe 200 turns of fine wire ...or is that way to low ?

the size of the vane would be about 30cm by 10 and slow ...tiny really 

its never going to run in anger .....just a model really...any advise is appreciated  :)

Offline bj

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2016, 05:53:36 AM »
  Niall  sounds like fun.  What just went through my head was that the hard drive disks are driven with
a motor capable of fairly high rpm.  How about using that?  They actually draw a bit of power to spin the disks,
so maybe usable as a generator?
  Nice thing is the bearings are very low friction.
  Just some early morning thoughts.
  Good luck with it.
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2016, 06:04:05 PM »
hi Bj

i know very little about them but it is a fun thing to play with plus you get a few free neos , its very precise and low friction like you say.  now i,ve experimented with it a bit it seems it doesent  much care for having neos ( even a few ) mounted on the platters .... probably me  ...thick fingers ...and a lack of patience .....that bit i know wont improve

 the platters are strong (especially the older drives) but they will deform a bit and dont provide a flux linkage for the neos ( i had hoped they would ) 

plus the neos underneath tend to add eddy currents in the aluminium body , its a bit of a head scratcher ....everythings so small ...it would make a nice little project though ...i,ve pulled 6 of them apart so far  :) ......free neos to clunk around  >:(

i was talking to a friend about options and he offered ( on loan ) Hugh Piggotts smallest axial design to play with , i havent seen this one but i "think" its got just four coils in the stator and his standard mags to suit , it is three phase and trailer hub mounted ....i should have it next week and i,ll post some pics

i see what you mean about the platter motor , its definately multi phase and will generate , the vawt rpm is the spanner in the works ....i never had a drag vawt as i wouldnt know how to get anything out of it

i do like the coffey can one though ....i made one out of a little plastic grease tub years ago , put it on a pole and watched it ...nada....it went a bit left ....then a bit right .....next time i looked up 2 days later it was purring happily away......

a spinning grease tub with no angle of attack .....impossible not to like  :)

Offline bj

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2016, 08:58:27 PM »
   Was just sitting here trying to think of a low friction rpm increaser.  No brilliant ideas yet.
   Neo's are great fun.  I have a large collection because I never throw one away.  There is even
a small disk neo in an optical drive.  (applies clamping force on the disk)
   The Piggott machine sounds interesting.
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2016, 05:31:00 PM »
hi Bj

still thinking about this so i decided to try the brute option ......still waiting to pick up the small Piggott alt

i had some old wedge neos out of an old alt and stator and pulled them out ....rubbing a coil over them lights an led , so potential there

i tried putting a second metal disk over them to return the flux more efficentially but nearly trapped a finger .......with mags on the opposing disc it should make a low rpm disk ...a brute

the mags are a little rough at this stage but still insane .......insanity will help with this project
ila_rendered

Offline bj

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2016, 06:47:09 AM »
  That will make power for sure.
  Had a couple of close calls with Neo's myself, taught me some respect.
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2016, 03:20:31 PM »
we have to make a model first ( a scale ish one ) of some kind , so i went ahead with Ed Lenzs coffey can .....all paper and foam
it uses the twin bearing mount of a hard drive acuator arm to spin on ...its pretty free spinning for a model

ila_rendered

this is the small neo layout   ....if it ever gets built in anger it will use the bigger wedge ones ...

now that its a "thing"  i took it out and left it on the fence , fairly windy .....it will spin up, ( with a little push )  i,d like to get it on a pole and see how fast it will go 

i got to see the little 3d printer running this week .....i,m not really into that kind of thing .......but it was pretty impressive , i thought it would be more like a soft plastic spongy object ,  but it can be more like Lego strength ....little things

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2016, 06:13:47 PM »
ish....the Lenz coffee can in 3d in the class ....and a wide mix of nice people for sure... 

the program is fusion 360 , which is free ...and whats not to like about that ...its kind of a bit like paint

I bought the magnets of Ed  initially which may well wind up being in it in the end...( or not ).....the 3d printer it seems has gone awol though...maybe it just got tired or something ......i guess plastic must have got more expensive ...

now its paperwork....still fun



     

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2017, 03:57:16 PM »
this is the kind of  rendered final exploded drawing ....only one week left so i,m trying to get just the actual vanes printed now ....3D printing seems slow and theres lots of constraints ..... ( they cant print any floating edges.....) ....everything has to have a platform base or a temp bridge support added .........so it can build upwards 

it wont get fully built    :(.......at least not in the short time ....

ila_rendered

as we say here its good crack though ....fun  :)
 

Offline bj

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 04:51:40 AM »
  Looks  great Niall.  Learning is a great thing.
  Only wished I'd figured that out in High School.  ;)
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 04:18:49 PM »
interesting you mention that Bj ...one young guy on the course did tech drawing at school and wanted to try 3D software ....his drawings were immaculate....

pencil , ruler and paper .....being able to draw seems key

i got it wrong about the rendering software .....it seems the program actually goes online ( thinks about it )  and fully renders light and form ....its kind of insane .....





 

Offline niall

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 04:50:35 PM »
me and jerry testing Eds coffey can at work break......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi48cDun_cw

.......his fingers though ..........they seem to big .....just the camera angle   :)....or is it

Offline bj

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Re: mini vawt axial flux
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2017, 05:54:23 AM »
  Getting pretty good rotation for a light breeze.
 
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj