Author Topic: New Electric Booster Boiler  (Read 1060 times)

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Offline eraser3000

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New Electric Booster Boiler
« on: October 20, 2016, 11:20:46 PM »
Will be 20KW using 20 - 1KW Elements
The reason for this is for finer control and less of a hit on inverters.
Its easier on inverters to PWM an SSR on a small element than it is on a larger one.

So Im going to use SSRs on all these elements and build a custom PID control to control them.

Elements are Tempco 1000w - 480volt single phase elements.  Threads are 1/2 NPT.

I started by taping a piece of string in a spiral around the piece of 6" tubing.

I then marked and drilled all of the holes progressing from 1/8" to 5/8".
Then I cut 1/2" heavy wall couplings and cut off a small portion with about 6 threads.
Then I TIG welded them on around the spiral.

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Offline bj

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2016, 06:13:13 AM »
  Nice work.  Tig is the best way on something like that.
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 11:05:14 PM »
Thanks BJ, I really enjoy TIG welding can't say that about stick or MIG.

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 11:18:04 PM »
I finally got around to the Plasma table and cut out the top and bottom.
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I roughed a quick sketch in Fusion 360 and had some quick and dirty G-Code.
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(Contour1)
N20 M36 T6
(Through cutting)

N25 G0 X4.37 Y-0.0722
(TURN ON CUTTING)
N30 M7
(POINT-PIERCE)
N35 G4 X5.
N40 G1 Y-0.4122 F40
N45 G3 X4.62 Y-0.6622 I0.25
N50 Y0.6578 J0.66
N55 Y-0.6622 J-0.66
N60 X4.87 Y-0.4122 J0.25
N65 G1 Y-0.0722
(TURN OFF CUTTING)
N70 M8
N75 G0 X0.3845 Y-2.3183
(TURN ON CUTTING)
N80 M7
etc.................


Here the top placed.
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Then I cut and chamfered 1" heavy wall couplings.
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Then I welded them inside and out.
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And now lid is on, time for grinding and painting.
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Offline DJ

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 03:51:40 AM »

So what is the setup of this going to be?
Are you going to use it like an instant on demand heater or have it going to a storage tank?
Are you going to run all 20 elements at once or modulate them depending on available power at the time?

With 20Kw available, the water even with 1" flow is sure going to get a decent heat rise in a single pass. 

I have been playing with a modified gas water heater. Took the gas ring out and fire it with a modified waste oil burner.  I can sink about 20Kw into that without too much inefficiency in flames blowing right out the top.  I'd like to get a 400L tank. That way I could fire the thing every 2-3 days and be able to drop more heat in as well.

I'm trying to work out more about the controllers you linked to. I still don't fully understand their capabilities as I know nothing about them but I'll keep researching. they would seem to be ideal for controlling something like a burner and having some safety devices built in as well.

Offline bj

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2016, 06:57:56 AM »
  Totally agree on Tig.  Mig has it's uses, but have never bothered to own a machine.
  Great project,  turning out nice.
 
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 08:44:24 AM »
On a side note the TIG welder power consumption was around 3500 watts during welding.

Offline rossw

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2016, 09:29:56 AM »
With 20Kw available, the water even with 1" flow is sure going to get a decent heat rise in a single pass. 

By my calculations - a very modest 15 litres/minute flow will only heat water by 19 degrees C at that power.
Even if it was running at full power with only 5 litres/minute flow the temperature rise is just over 57 deg C.

Yes, it's decent - but it's fairly easily managed.

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 09:31:16 AM »
DJ:
I am going to modulate them.
So if turbine output is 580watts only 1 element will be PWM and using a AC RMS current sensor for the feedback I'll let the PID controller do its thing. If wind output is 13500watts then 13 elements will be fully on and element 14 will be 50% on.

I am hoping for a good rise in one pass and plan to flow 10 gallons per minute through it.

I currently have about 1200 gallons of storage tank in the room and have another room with much larger tanks to be plumbed in at a later time.

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 10:19:39 AM »

I have been playing with a modified gas water heater. Took the gas ring out and fire it with a modified waste oil burner.  I can sink about 20Kw into that without too much inefficiency in flames blowing right out the top.  I'd like to get a 400L tank. That way I could fire the thing every 2-3 days and be able to drop more heat in as well.

I'm trying to work out more about the controllers you linked to. I still don't fully understand their capabilities as I know nothing about them but I'll keep researching. they would seem to be ideal for controlling something like a burner and having some safety devices built in as well.

Sounds like a great project would love to see some pictures .
If you need a hand with the controller end of it let me know.

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2016, 10:23:29 AM »
Thanks Ross

With 20Kw available, the water even with 1" flow is sure going to get a decent heat rise in a single pass. 

By my calculations - a very modest 15 litres/minute flow will only heat water by 19 degrees C at that power.
Even if it was running at full power with only 5 litres/minute flow the temperature rise is just over 57 deg C.

Yes, it's decent - but it's fairly easily managed.

Offline DJ

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2016, 10:19:37 PM »
With 20Kw available, the water even with 1" flow is sure going to get a decent heat rise in a single pass. 

By my calculations - a very modest 15 litres/minute flow will only heat water by 19 degrees C at that power.
Even if it was running at full power with only 5 litres/minute flow the temperature rise is just over 57 deg C.


Summer water temps here straight out the tap can easily be above 20o. add another 19 and you are well at shower temps.  Would be a good shower at 15l min. New and upgraded plumbing here is mandated to be limited to 50o so if you backed the flow down to 10L min, youd be very close I'd say.

5L min which is more on the mark for the hot water side would be way too hot at 57 and would need to be mixed with cold to give you a reasonable temp and would be perfectly adequate as an instant heater.

Given the power of most storage heaters and that I have never seen a single phase instant heater do that sort of output, I'd still say it's a decent heat rise in one pass!  :0)


Quote
I currently have about 1200 gallons of storage tank in the room and have another room with much larger tanks to be plumbed in at a later time.

Why SO much hot water?  Are you using it to space heat as well?
You keep throwing out figures that would better suit a hotel than a home.

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 10:55:29 PM »
Painted
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I added a little 90 in there for support since the whole thing will be supported just by the 1" pipe.
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Booster Boiler is going to be added on top of existing boiler.
This boiler takes the excess split phase 240 from the Solar String inverters. From another post.
http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,1203.0.html
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1200 Gallon Tank Insulated and wrapped.
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A couple manifolds the tank feeds.
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DJ, Boiler system needs to be big to support the place here, I have a lot of square footage and it gets very cold in the winter.

My evacuated tube system also feeds the tanks.
http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,1198.0.html

Offline eraser3000

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 10:32:09 PM »
Well it holds air!
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Offline oztules

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Re: New Electric Booster Boiler
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 12:41:00 AM »
A sobering thought on direct heating of water.
I was working on a rheem instant hot water unit, and noticed the nameplate stated that it uses over 55kw for the 25lpm model for 25C temp increase.... it is not easy stuff.

..........oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia