Author Topic: Output voltage adjustment  (Read 14514 times)

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Offline oztules

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2016, 09:32:01 pm »
Looks interesting...... I want one... ::).. except I have oodles of inverters running around the place now :-[


Not sure the boss will allow much more on this kind of project :'(


..............oztules
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Offline RFburns

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2016, 02:05:53 am »
Yup dont up set the boss! .
 I want one of these to see if its a a symmetrical drive (bipolar for 8010?) both side at 50Hz (this is why one side suffers heating ?) and opto isolated, Stay safe. RF
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Offline oztules

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #92 on: July 18, 2016, 02:33:04 am »
The 8010 is both unipolar and  bipolar. Unipolar is 50hz:23khz and bipolar is 23khz:23khz..... a 50hz:50 hz would be square wave AC. methinks.

Any paperwork on it?


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Offline RFburns

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2016, 03:17:19 am »
Yes the 8010/EGS002 can do unipolar and bipolar (each has advantages) .Dont have a lot of info on this unit I thought that bipolar was two 50Hz pulse trains which are 180 degree out of phase and phase shift pulse width modulation to produce the sine ;but maybe I am incorrect here so will have to look into it - got me thinking now. I think the asymmetrical drive of unibolar is giving the heating on one side. RF

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Offline oztules

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2016, 11:36:10 am »
As I see it, the heating of the 23khz is only due to switching losses. If your going to spwm, someone has to switch at 23khz to create the D class effect.... can't see how thats done at 50 cycles on each bridge...... unless your going linear.

50hz@ 180 should give us the standard push pull square wave inverter I would have thought... no synthesis there.

Look forward to the testing when you get it.


........oztules
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Offline RFburns

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #95 on: July 20, 2016, 01:24:45 am »
Yup I see what you are saying, I have now have a zif socket for the 8010's to allow having a fiddle with the pins that allow it ( I am guessing that some are locked as this would appear to be an ATMEGA chip of some type) when I get the time / motivation to do so; but will wait till after the new board turns up and check that out. Have plenty to keep me busy with the EGS002's and haven't even made a board for the 8010 as the EGS002 is to easy . RF
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Offline dochubert

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #96 on: July 20, 2016, 05:38:59 pm »
Oztules, did you find your pic for the lcd screen mod, or can you point out what to connect to what with the resistor;
Quote
Edit: A 100r resistor across the back of the LCD screen will keep it on all the time... I will take pics of the mod when I can get one out. 

I would like to keep mine on steady when watching power levels or after a new mod, possibly with a toggle switch added.  Looked at the back of the lcd, but nothing looked obvious to me.
Thanks
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Offline lighthunter

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2017, 10:29:14 pm »
Just in case anyone still needs a way to adjust output voltage of an original powerjack inverter there is a very non-invasive way and very cheap. For those of you wondering why you would want to do this.... in USA at least, 120v is the most common appliance voltage and powerjack design targets 110v with small drift. 108 is just too low for many appliances, it drives up current and causes poor starting of compressors.

Solution, remove toroid from inverter and wind 14-15 turns 12or14awg wire evenly spaced. Solder/crimp terminals on ends and reinstall toroid. Remove red wire connecting  to 110v outlet. Connect one of the leads of new winding to outlet and the other lead of new winding to the red wire you removed earlier. Now double check your work, make sure everything is exactly as it was when you took it apart with exception of the new winding added in series with outlet. Connect dc power and switch on. Measure outlet voltage, if it is 100v power off and swap the leads of the new winding. If it is 122v. Then power off and put lid back on inverter, you are done and your main control board wont know the difference but you get 120-122 v at the outlets.

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Offline sunnypower46

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2017, 08:16:57 pm »
lighthunter> 

I've got to do the same thing to correct voltage on my PJ 8000 SP.  I've been living with 126-0-113 VAC for the last six months.  It's synced to microinverters and back charges a 24vdc battery bank when excess solar is available.  Aside from the unbalanced voltages, it's been working great.

I'm thinking two separate additional windings of 5-10 turns connected to add/subtract as you've done is the way to go.

You didn't mention any disassembly of the toroid.  Can I assume you left the flat copper(?) winding shield intact? 

Offline inline_phil

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2017, 06:38:34 am »
Solution, remove toroid from inverter and wind 14-15 turns 12or14awg wire evenly spaced. Solder/crimp terminals on ends and reinstall toroid.

Yup, same issue with mine here in central Florida, USA [a stock PowerJack 15kW 48v model]. I am pleased with most operation however anything with a high surge starting current barely runs [e.g., an electric staple gun]. Plus since the wire runs in my home are long [higher I-squared-R losses] the problems are compounded and the outlet voltages are 2-4V lower [106-108v]. When there is a bigger load on the inverter [say 3-4kW], the line voltage sags even more and my UPS switches to battery backup meaning line voltage is under 105v [yikes!].

I want to perform this mod - BUT - I am uncertain as to which toroid you are referencing [mine has two, see attached pic].  Are you referencing the outer one closest to the output side? [where the outlets and on/off switch are located] or the one closer to the middle of the unit?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

Offline lighthunter

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2017, 10:34:36 pm »
Hi Phil, welcome to the forum!

I dont at all understand your term "referenced" please elaborate. I will attempt a guess or how I would go about increasing voltage of your inverter.

If yours is a split phase unit, then you will add a few turns to each toroid and connect the new winding in series to add to the voltage of each. The polarity is extremely critical, it must be voltage additive to the original winding.

If yours is not a split phase unit, the two toroids will be connected in parallel, red to red and black to black both sharing the load equally. In this case you will also add a few turns to each. The number of turns and wire size/method /spacing should be as identical between two toroids as possible. When done with winding each, they should be compared for exact voltage output before connecting together.

Does that help? If you provide more info as to specifics of your inverter, i could do a suggested drawing if it helps. Really isnt a hard concept or task for that matter. Just label 4 wires, remove them with toroid, do again for two. Now simply wind 10 or so turns and tape down, do again for second toroid. Next using a 120v power source, check polarity and series connect before adding back to inverter this way no surprises  :)


The result when you are done is all the original wiring of the inverter has not been changed except for these two new windings which are added in series with the inverter AC output terminals. The inverter control circuitry never gets to see the added voltage, only your appliances get to see the change. Mine runs at 120-121 on the nose for L1 and L2. Its okay but doing again would try for 123-124, seems like you always loose a couple volts before appliances get it.
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Offline sunnypower46

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2017, 05:47:40 pm »
I had related issue with my PJ8000 SP 24v.  One side of the center tap at 113v, the other at around 126v.  Added two windings.  One adding, one bucking.  Ended up at 119-120v for both.  This is a good solution to voltage adjustments.  Thanks, lighthunter!

Caution:  If you wind your new turns around the toroid without removing the metal shield, pay attention to the heat from the toroid.  My first trial attempt was with 14ga auto wire.  Worked great until the insulation melted and the turns shorted against the sharp edge of the band.  Duh.  That was interesting!  Glad I was nearby and could shut the PJ down.

Consider 12ga stranded silicone insulated wire from hobby shop suppliers online.  It can handle the heat and is relatively easy to work with.  I hold the new windings in place with nylon wire ties, but I doubt that will be a good long term solution.  Been working great 24/7 for several months, though.

I also raised the toroid off the metal chassis floor plate and left it open at top and bottom for better airflow with also a curved deflector to force some air up through the middle.  You have to experiment with repositioning the temp sensor.  Attaching it too close to the toroid will result in early heat shutdown.  Too far away and the toroid will get too hot.  Not good for efficiency or the windings.  Mine is set to shutdown when the metal core reaches around 200 degrees F when I scan it with my point and shoot thermometer.  The air "shaded" downstream part of the toroid is definitely hotter than the upstream portion.  Some clever ducting is needed to provide more uniform cooling.  I'm considering an additional outflow fan at the unit's frontend as a first step. 

Bought a second similar PJ unit late 2016 and the windings were symmetrical 114-0-114.  When feeding the microinverters to the input/output, voltage rises to around 119v each side.  Happy camper!  Go figure.

Offline lighthunter

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #102 on: August 11, 2017, 09:14:55 pm »
Your welcome Sunny, and good job with your modification. Refrigerant pumps start so much easier with 120V. To answer an earlier question, yes, I left copper shield in place when adding turns to toroid. In fact I left original mylar in place and just wound magnet wire on top. Since my whole purpose was to reduce heat and increase voltage, I used several strands of 12awg. I used $5 ebay digital temp control for fans.and swapped out the original fan for a delta. Cost $10 at bgmicro, noisy but moves a lot of air (250cfm) almost like hair dryer rpm. My setup is in garage so noise isnt a problem.

Did you get your display to read voltage and current correctly? I found putting the power output leads through the black ct in opposite directions will give additive current/watt readings for both phases. I didnt worry aboot tbe on-board ct. I should find a solution for it to monitor total power as well. All will be fine unless a short occurs on the unmonitored phase. Mine wasnt originally a split design so maybe they have a solution in place for this in a stock split. Keep fuses as small as possible to protect FETs. I use 20A on each phase with 4110fets. They never blow but they do discolor from heat. That gives total power available of 5kw without blowing fuse.

Thanks for tip on silicone wire i like it but never know where to get it. One more thing worthy of mention. The two large waveshaping capacitors on the board normally connect to the whole scondary winding. After this modification, the capacitors cant smooth the power contribution oc the added winding.  This omission will make for a rough wave form especially unloaded. Not a big issue but it isnt ideal either. I cant really recommend what I did as a solution as it involves cutting traces on control board and repurposing charger terminals. If you want to correct, you have to get capacitors between L1-N and N-L2 of the oem size.



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Offline sunnypower46

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2017, 11:02:55 am »
Hmmmm.  Wasn't thinking about the shaping capacitors.  Good tip.
 
I found the PJ power monitoring LCD display not useful for split phase systems.  Disconnected all plugs from LCD going to the control board.  I wanted something that stayed on all the time so went with two separate CT-style external displays on L1 & L2 wires going into the PJ from my microinverters.  This lets me monitor the microinverter output as they (meters) provide total wattage (added together) since all produced power goes either to house loads, batteries or dump controller.  The external meters also provide me more flexibility to physically monitor the system away from the PJ.  I'll have to try your opposite direction two wire CT "trick" with my meters.

I could also put CT doughnuts and meters on the output lines going to the load panel to observe phase power going just to the house loads.

I've rewired the front panel to eliminate all possibility of using the charging function of PJ.  Got rid of the L1-N-L2 vertical terminal block after noticing the plastic was melting from contact overheating at high power output.  I only use the 3-wire euro-style (I internally rewired) blocks.  One for L1-N-L2 input, one for output.  Makes it simple and straightforward.  You can easily change the "E" label to an "L" by carefully scratching off the white paint on the upper arms of the "E" label with a small flat-tipped screwdriver or similar tool.  Also, I removed the unused vertical terminal block and AC charger input connector.  Improves airflow output through the panel. 

Repurposed the fuse holders to separately protect the L1 and L2 wires with 20A slow-blows.  Also, unsoldered, physically secured and resoldered all the AC wiring.  Most of the original wiring is just tack soldered to the fuse terminals.  Not good.

Just received a 120mm 130cfm 12v fan that I'm going to try at the front when I have time.  I'm afraid to parallel it to the existing fan wiring (overload).  Not sure how or where PJ gets the 12vdc from, but there's plenty of 24vdc to convert down.

Well, sorry, I'm getting off topic, but perhaps some info will be useful to others. 


Offline inline_phil

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Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #104 on: August 14, 2017, 04:39:22 pm »
Hi Phil, welcome to the forum!

If yours is not a split phase unit, the two toroids will be connected in parallel, red to red and black to black both sharing the load equally. In this case you will also add a few turns to each. The number of turns and wire size/method /spacing should be as identical between two toroids as possible. When done with winding each, they should be compared for exact voltage output before connecting together.
Thanks for the warm welcome Lighthunter.

Mine is a stock PJ 15000W 48V single phase and your instructions are pretty clear.

Adding about 15 evenly-spaced turns of 12AWG magnet wire on both toroids should do the trick.

Measuring the output of each before summing them is a great idea just to make sure one is not carrying more load than the other.

From your description, it sounds like the split phase version of this unit just puts these two transformers in series [properly phased] with a N reference.  Is this right?

One last Q: what is the operating voltage of the two stock internal fans? Are they like a PC's @12V?