Author Topic: Output voltage adjustment  (Read 14519 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2016, 11:24:29 am »
Sunnypower, thanks for the great toroid idea.  I definitely need 'easier to modify'
I just looked on ebay and found most of the inexpensive ones are all potted centers.  One from Netherlands (naturally!) seems to be open but doesn't specify, so sent the question and hope they speak english.
How hard would it be to remove the potting without damage?  Impossible right?
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline lighthunter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2016, 06:59:37 pm »
   
Quote
  "How hard would it be to remove the potting without damage? Impossible right?"

Someone on here did this, he did an awesome job of removing potting without even damaging the plastic wrap. Might have been frackers or clockman, just cant remember. It was a 3+kw toroid too. I have a potted 3kw and started with a hole saw and got half way through and quit. I then modified the rest of the circuit to fit the transformer because i was worried about damaging the winding. I know its possible but guessing very tedious and may require beer.  ;D.

LH
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2016, 07:24:40 pm »
Thanks Lighthunter,
Didn't figure it was worth the effort, but was hoping someone would say, "Just spray it with this handy dandy potting remover and it will fall right out!"  ;)
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline lighthunter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2016, 07:39:28 pm »
 ;D. You are so funny! 

I dont mind when a project takes a lot of effort but I sure hate to go backwards. By the way, my spare pj board has been running very well with very few gti stops. As you probably knew like sunny, my voltage changed just by changing control board. It is around 230 instead of the 239 i did have. The new totem (darlington) transistors are ordered and will return to original board when i get parts or put together a 48v unit from Oztules' 002 circuit, whichever happens first.

LH
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline oztules

  • Forum Advisors
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Karma: +105/-8
  • Village idiot
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2016, 04:48:38 pm »
http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,1044.msg10165.html#msg10165  gets the potting center out.

The totems...... never know what else went wrong in there, may be just as simple to do the 002 or 8010.


..............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline lighthunter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2016, 07:31:04 pm »
Quote
never know what else went wrong in there.



Yep! i agree. You know how it is though :)  one has to either repair it or burn it up good just to set it on the shelf. Im hoping the transistors and optos should fix it. The Fet board is already repaired and in use.

I am taking your advice and moving on to 48v 002 setup. Rather than tackle the toroid rewind, I think I will try the monster 200lb EI as it has many high current windings, was taken from a multi kw computer UPS 48 to 480/240/120. It has extremely low idle current less than 50w I dont know how but could it be that an EI can be built for higher efficiency? I know the donut shape is magnetically superior but this one is surprising and too good to pass up.

 
Quote
"gets the potting center out. "
Thanks for the link! I like the idea of punching it through.

LH

Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2016, 07:48:19 pm »
Thanks Oztules,
Should have known you would have a simple solution to removing potting from toroid coils.  Luckily, the two small ones I ordered to try the voltage adjust aren't potted.
I have just (finally) read thru your thread on the new control boards.  Now I'm no longer puzzled over comments about "002" and "8010". Amazing job!  Simple, clean and robust.  Clockman has the pcb down and if I had his book and pcb now I'd be building it instead of writing here.  I want an 8010 control for my 15kw/48v powerjack as soon as I can get one built.  Will have a hard time waiting patiently.  I never delved into pc board making so stuck until I can get one from someone else.
Eventually will build a complete unit from scratch, probably after I get moved in a few months.
Would never have even considered doing that before finding you guys.
Thanks again
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2016, 02:59:18 pm »
Finally got my two small toroid transformers.  They are 230v primary, 12v secondary.  Salvaged a short piece of wire left over from the first transformer that fried and wound 6 turns on one toroid, connected in series with the secondary, and hooked to the pj output connector for a test.
5719-0

Turned pj on and with 232v in, read 250v out, so swapped the input and output  and tried again.  217v out this time so took 2 turns back off and getting 221v or so.  About right.
Next will be the operational test, probably tomorrow
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2016, 08:31:11 pm »
Had some time so went ahead and hooked up for the test.

5721-05723-1

Triple checked connections and turned on pj.  Mod worked a bit too well.  Lcd meter read 293v output.  Shut it down after about ten seconds. No smoke or odd noises, just way high output.
I suspect the small toroids are too close to the big transformers and getting induced a little too much?
Tomorrow I'll add leads and move them away and try again.

At least nothing fried this time....
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2016, 12:06:41 pm »
Moved the small toroids back to the end of the unit, added leads and reconnected.  Still 292v.  Put the two turns back on that I had removed previously and now 295v.  Put voltmeter to output terminals and tried again in case the lcd meter was screwed up, and read 229v while the lcd said 295v.  All these tries just had unit on for a few seconds, but this last time while reading that 229v, got sudden loud hum so immediately turned it off.  Slight  burn smell so probably fried something but can't pinpoint.  Hope its in the control board as its to be replaced soon anyway

So done with this experiment.  Its an 8010 board for me as soon as I can get one.  Now have to figure out if unit still works or if really damaged.  Later, after irritation factor goes down some...
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline oztules

  • Forum Advisors
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Karma: +105/-8
  • Village idiot
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2016, 05:22:06 pm »
Guessing shorted driver transistor.........


............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2016, 08:40:21 pm »
The Leds are no longer lit on the output side of the mainboard so probably fried a fet or 2?  As soon as I'm done being pissed I'll get the boards out for a closer look, hopefully tomorrow.
Don't really understand how a transformer feeding back at about ten volts lower than nominal boosted output 60 volts.  Or did it? 
Guess I'm not going to find out 'cause won't be trying that one again.
We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --

Offline lighthunter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2016, 11:07:28 am »
295v? :-\ Sounds like no feedback. Make the repair painless as possible and just replace em all. Optos, drivers and fets. Unless you verify each is a good component.  One damaged one can ruin everything you just repaired.

Mouser Has optos and the 2SA1213 NY PNP drivers. The fets and the NPN 2SC2873 MY drivers I ordered from china thru amazon. Pretty cheap repair, I think $20 for the 24 irfb4110s and maybe $10 all up for the rest. If you have not the equipment for surface mount soldering get a few rolls of solder wick.

Mine failed due to a fight with mains due to a transfer relay failure and half of the Fets got blown along with one of the drivers. Maybe a driver is all that is wrong with yours as oztules suggested.

There might be a way to verify each bank of 6 fets by simply connecting a 12v source to fets then to halogen 12v bulb and back to ground. A 9v bat supply to gate resistor should make it light then off, no light.  As i mentioned, it probably safer just to replace em but it does take a bit of time. Testing/verifying 4 banks would b a good second.

Best wishes,

LH
Health Warning: May contain traces of nut!
LH

Offline sunnypower46

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2016, 10:38:05 pm »
>dochubert:  Sorry to hear you damaged your unit.  I had a chance to look closely at your pictures and wanted to note what might have been an error in your hookup.

In my earlier post, I indicated you connect the secondary windings together (adding/subtracting turns, as you did).  The primary connection wires appear to be white in color in your picture.  You appear to have connected a leg of each toroid's primary to terminal P6.  This looks a lot like an autotransformer hookup.  As such, it doesn't preserve the standard isolation of a typical primary/secondary arrangement.  I thought you wanted a 230 to 226/234 volt fully isolated transformer.  It doesn't appear that you used this combo setup in this manner.  I can't say that it was the fatal error, though.

I observed that same loud buzzing with my original control board, though it was related to pressing on the control board.  Never lost my FETs, though.  No problem with new board.  Hope the 8010 board makes things easier re voltage adjustments.

Anyway, I think your toroids look nice.  Do you have an online link to them?  I might want them for a future project.

Also, does anyone have a picture showing the circuit board location of the 2SA1213 and 2SC2873 drivers mentioned by lighthunter?  I don't see them on the control board, or are they down on the power board?

Offline dochubert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
  • Karma: +4/-0
  • 11 powerjacks, 9 that run, 3 actually used daily
Re: Output voltage adjustment
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2016, 12:29:33 am »
I believe the 2SA1213 and 2SC2873 are right by the optos TLP350 on the daughter board of the control board.  What I'm not sure of is which is which, as mine are not marked and same case type.

I was also concerned by the 'autotransformer' connection of transformer primary to secondary for this mod, but lighthunter posted a schematic of his mod a few posts back, and it is how I connected it.  The difference being this time my transformer is made up of 2 transformers coupled.  Should it matter?  I wouldn't think so, but maybe it did.  I still haven't taken the boards out of the pj yet.  Maybe there will be time tomorrow

At any rate, with easy voltage control built into the Ozcontrol 8010 control board, I won't risk anymore smoking components on this mod.  I just have to be patient until someone makes some pc boards for the 8010 available for those of us who don't make our own pcbs.  Meanwhile, I'm acquiring some of the parts so I'm ready.

Here's the link for the toroids;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230V-12V-40VA-TOROIDAL-TRANSFORMER-/191796609739?hash=item2ca7f802cb:g:8GMAAOSwFMZWr42h

We're all going to DIE!  (eventually)

USA = Communist former republic
---  dochubert --