Author Topic: Big OzInverter, torroids question?  (Read 15284 times)

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Offline ClockmanFrance

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2016, 04:10:49 am »
Have fun frwainscott.

Yes, I see that I can not obtain any of the LF15000w, PSW,control board or power board, 50HZ 48vdc 230vac, from any source. I have sent an email to PowerJack to see whats happening.

Bit stupid on my part, that I produce a small publication to help others build their own OzInverter, and the PJ mainboards we require are no longer available ?............

PJ board cleaning.......
" Cleaning and conformal coating PCB’s.
On all my PJ boards on the solder sides there seems very limited PCB coatings. For us here, we require a good PCB coating, as the OzInverter lives and is installed in an outside building, which has rain protection, but is likely to get damp and a moist air flow.
I only do the cleaning and coating once the Inverter has been tested, and then I test again to ensure the AC voltage output is the same as before.

It has already been mentioned that the PJ Control Board has delicate resistors….. “They are very high R, so very high impedance, and easy to change the ac by even dampness or dust..... bit scary really, but seems to work in practice, but they are in the order of megohms..... if there are any problems with any of the resistors in the staircase, then the AC output voltage will move....oztules”

The spray cans I use are normal Industry standard coatings for PCB’s. The can on the left is a cleaning solvent and stiff brush, the other can is the coating but it does spray a little thicker than I would like. Follow the manufacturer’s instructions.
On the PJ Boards, underside, solder side, I remove the debris with a hand bulb blower, (watchmakers) first, and excess flux and solder splashes with the solvent and brush. But I keep the boards held vertically so the solvent runs straight down under gravity and away. The flux should come off with isopropyl alcohol and use a tooth brush.
                   
Do not use to much solvent we don’t what that solvent removing any insulating films or heat sink pastes.
Be very, very, careful with the PJ Control Board as there are SMD, surface mount devices, on the solder side as well.
The component side gets a good blow through and if any signs of excess flux or solder splashes then its dealt with on a very individual basis, using smaller soft new paint brushes and solvent and cotton swabs if necessary.
Do not dismantle the Power board heat sinks or sub boards unless you fully understand what you are doing. Just use a soft light brush and minimum solvent use on the FET boards that you can see, remember we just want debris and excess flux removed and the board sealed only.
After cleaning, I normally allow several hours of warm air drying in a dust free environment to ensure the boards are really dry.
When lacquering with the conformal coating, I ensure, where possible, all the PCB surface gets it. Allow at least an hour between coats, I do at least 3 coats.
Allow at least 24 hours to fully dry, then a re-test of the boards to ensure the AC output voltage is as before".

Frackers.... Double thickness would put that choke about the same thickness as the commercially obtainable as recommended by 'oztules'.
 Mine are 27mm thick, with the centre wrap round column 44mm long and 20mm wide. Outside is 65mm x 65mm.  It seems that 3 complete turns are optimal, I tried 4 but not much improvement on idle power use, but real flipping fiddle with 4.

Offline oztules

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Offline ClockmanFrance

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2016, 05:03:42 pm »
Thank you, and thanks about the different PJ boards that can be used instead.......

Offline frackers

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2016, 08:18:24 pm »
PJ safety fan connections.....

PJ have really gone against the tide here!!

Standard PC fan with tacho has the centre pin as +ve 12v rather than the tacho pin and seeing the number of comments about putting a resistor onto the fan I assume the PJ board doesn't have a pullup resistor on it like a PC does (all the fans I have are open collector tacho output).

The other standard thing about a PC fan (CPU or chassis) is that a small molex connector is used.
Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline frackers

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2016, 08:44:15 pm »
Nearly ready to run up with a current limited mains 48v supply - just need a series zener in my controller

(which will allow me to measure input amps/volts) to protect the LM2595 regulator which is only rated to 45v.

All crimped and heatshrunk and overall looking good - hope it works. First light (astronomy term!!) tomorrow night I hope :)
Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline oztules

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2016, 10:28:24 pm »
Your supply won't protect the fets by the way..... the 60000uf will have over 700 amps of short circuit power... itwill save the circuit board fibreglass and gate resistors, and some of the fets, but it is not current limited for all intent and purpose.

If it is wired up it will work, of it is wrong it wont.... not much inbetween I'm afraid.


................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline frackers

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2016, 03:20:10 am »
Yeehaw - it works!!

The idle current of 1.4 amps is a bit higher than I'd like but the 'E' core is made out of 8 'C' cores of unknown vintage. Still, its less than 1% of the expected full load current.


Running it up to just over 1 kw (the maximum the test PSU can do, every thing runs cold but the 'E' core buzzes. The toroid itself is totally silent.


This is the lash-up so far, when its in a case I'll re-configure the battery bank from 24 to 48 volts (will need some re-drilling of the bus-bars). That will allow me to run up some serious load tests.
I do seem to have an excess of temperature sensors though - I have one like the one fixed to the heatsink and one like a TO-220 can with 2 legs.
Not sure about the fan - it hasn't tried to turn on yet and I still don't know if the control board has the tacho line pullup or I have to supply it as all the PC fans I have are open-collector.


I'm pleased with the way the toroid connections have turned out, having enough cable available to make a complete layer in one go I've avoided having any joins at all. The three secondary 1.8 mm wires are brought out from the final mylar layer in heat-shrink and then a lug crimped on the end for screwing onto the control board. The primary has the 14 major strands teased out into 3 lots, heat-shrink and crimp lugs again.


And the monster itself - what can I say :)



This all gives me time to get another brew of beer going later in the week now!!

Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline oztules

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2016, 05:38:37 am »
Amazing stuff there frackers.
The extra current may be due to inter ribbon conduction between the steel laminates./

I don't know how they apply the lacquer and how well it stuck after rewing the strip... so could be eddy currents.

Also try different inductors turns on the e core. The buzz tells me you have not superglued it yet... so get some thinner wire so you can try more turns... don't need to load it so can be 10 amp wire for tests. If it makes a significant difference to go more turns, then worry about how your gonna do it then... ie maybe double up the ferrite etc etc.

When you have your best combination, then super glue it together, and it should go near silent.

Thats hard core tranny winding there.... impressed at your ingenuity.

well done.


.......oztules

Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline ClockmanFrance

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2016, 09:25:57 am »
Congratulations frackers.

Its a wonderfull feeling when ite comes to life, and looks nice and tidy.

And you wound your own cores.............. The Man.....

That very slight buzzing on the E core, same here, mine is superglued, but the next one I may epoxy resin it and see if that helps. I have a feeling that the superglue doesn't particular like the ferrite?

I did get another E core spare, but to be honest, its not much noise, and the OzInverter works so well keeping the Electric on here.
My moto here, "If it works and not deteriorating, leave well alone". 

Offline frackers

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2016, 05:54:59 pm »
Many thanks for the pat on the back!!

It all (as usual) comes down to necessity - shipping of parts just costs way too much so even though I've been a Kiwi for only 13 years, I think I have always understood the number 8 wire mentality! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_8_wire). I think my total outlay has been about NZ$550 (US$375) which includes the cost of the PJ boards and I still have enough mylar and secondary wire for another core.

I think it comes from being on an island as I'm sure Oztules will agree with - just that my island is bigger than his but further from the source of many parts that are useful (like redundant grid tie inverters!!)

5 weeks now I've been waiting on EGS002 boards, tracking is reporting that they left the country of origin 3 weeks ago :(
Robin Down Under (or are you Up Over!)

Offline David HK

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2016, 01:18:06 am »
This thread may be useful for people wanting to know more about toroidal coil windings.

http://www.had2know.com/technology/calculate-toroidal-coil-inductor-wire.html

Dave

Offline frwainscott

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2016, 01:59:09 am »
I purchased A 8 KW PowerJack, And if you look at the picture they are using a ferrite for the inductor. I counted 3 wraps and it is about 1/2 amp at idle(no load). Hope this helps.

Offline frwainscott

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2016, 10:42:25 pm »
Oz , Clockman ,

  And all of those who have put forth time and effort in these endeavors, I give my utmost thanks and appreciation.

It could not be done without these people giving of themselves for a greater good.

Here is a website that has done basically the same thing, Give or take.

http://www.lz2gl.com/power-inverter-3kw/

If you pay attention to the chokes you see they are fairly small ferites. And if you look at the picture preceding this, it is the 8KW PJ inverter I purchased, it also uses ferites,(Lower Right of the torroid) And I have checked it twice,its between 1/2 and 3/4 amps no load. I have yet to check it under load......   Waiting on batteries....   :-)

  BUT CHECK PRICES  It may be cheaper to buy the one Oz uses... Mine was $20.00

I am still waiting on parts, so i can get under way with my own. They just trickle in....... And am still looking for torroids, At  an affordable price.

Offline Fionn

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Monster Toroids
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2016, 05:35:06 am »
Do you mind me asking where you sourced the monster toroids clockman, and what continuous power rating you expect the transformer to be capable of?

Offline ClockmanFrance

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Re: Big OzInverter, torroids question?
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2016, 03:06:28 pm »
Hi Fionn,

These folk will send to Europe.

They can wind toroid cores to your size but there machine is max height at 60mm.

They have a good stock range.

Just stack, and join with  expoxy resin and fiberglass.

100mm hole diameter is a must. Outside say 230mm diameter, eventual height will be what you can lift and turn. Mine is at 140mm high gives me 38kg of toroid core, and that is awkward to turn and lift.

My winding table has been suitably modified, just don't want the copper enamelling scratched away each time the toroid is moved.

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/toroidal_cores/ros217/

What it will do, I am looking at 10kW, but running at 8kW safely is my aim.