Author Topic: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question  (Read 4891 times)

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Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2016, 10:38:39 PM »
Thanks Dan, useful info!
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2016, 09:16:22 AM »
Good Day All!

I have since drafted a design for my system and pictured it below. My PJ has a built in mppt charger and I have an additional mppt. The max input is 32v so I went with the 300w 24v panels and 12 v 200ah agm batts. I was concerned about the mppt chargers interfering with each other so I will use barrier diodes to separate the 2 banks.(I may have hastily used the diode symbol in the wrong direction) my grid control is simply to jump to the local grid in case of failure without involving the inverter grid tie just using a relay and contactors at the breaker box.

I am going to test and build a few items here in the US before shipping everything. The panels and batteries were loaded at Shanghai port early this morning so that's out of the way. If you guys see an error, please point it out appreciation all around.

Also including pics of inside of my PJ and other parts.

anyone point in the right direction to post my own topic, a little lost here.


Thanks!
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline dan

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 11:01:23 AM »
According to your schematic the wiring on battery bank #1 looks wrong. Why is it different from #2?

Why are you even separating the battery banks? Just because you saw 2 sets of terminals on the PJ? I'm pretty sure there are 2 sets just for convenience and those terminals are connected directly together... not meant for 2 separate banks.

Do you not have exact specs on the standalone MPPT charge controllers you will be using, and the solar panels? Despite your nicely drawn diagram, it doesn't help much without actual specifications for these things. I am curious what MPPT charge controllers you are looking at that have such a low input voltage. For example, you can get those decently cheap epsolar itracer ones which take 150v open circuit, 72v operating voltage. Other more expensive MPPT charge controllers take even higher operating voltages...

And if the banks aren't separated, then you don't need diodes. I believe most charge controllers will run fine in parallel. But do you really need 2? How much solar will you have?

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2016, 02:32:16 PM »
I am using powerjacks 2400w mppt that's internal(I will be removing the 2 wire from charger and using the terminals on the front cover) also a separate 2.4kw mppt for bank 2 solar panels.

I will have 3000w of panels on the front roof and 3000w on the rear. The house front is situated due east and rear to the west. This setup was of the panels only was recommended by Oztules. In the Philippines we pretty much get 12 hours of sun everyday. By noon I will be at full power. My goal in a few year is to double the panels. Typhoons and rainy season is my only concern about maintaining total off-grid time although at only about 2$ a month I can keep Meralco service at hand to switch over automatically. I know the post on the pj are connected but I was afraid that the mppt controllers would interfere with each other in some way. Reading thru Oz work with pj gear I found strange things happen when well attached differently.

The battery banks were supposed to be wired the same but I was up late drawing and didn't double check before adding color. He green lines from the inverter were my way of saying I'm in green mode
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline dan

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 02:37:47 PM »
Hmm yea, using different MPPTs like that may do some weird things... I really don't know though :P Different brands may have different limits or absorption times etc. I am guessing the budget is tight? I would have went with standalone charge controllers that have the nice high input voltages... but when working with 24v the amperage gets high for the amount of solar you have. The $350 MPPT I was looking at that does 3.2kw with a 48v battery bank will only do 1.6kw with a 24v battery bank. You would end up having to need at least 3, preferably 4 of these... :(  That's why I like to use 48v :P

I'm guessing you already have the 8kw 24v PJ inverter purchased? If not, maybe you should go up to 48v...

Offline off the wall

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2016, 03:16:38 PM »
Hi!

Ebay member bloominginverter is Cher based in Taiwan. She is the one person at PowerJack who gets things right and is very helpful indeed.

For a 24V system yes you need 36V panels. The 24V system charges up to 28 or 28.8V. The 36V panels have their max power point at around 30V. That's fine. To be blunt there is no appreciable difference between the output of MPPT and PWM controllers. The cheap MPPT30 controller, which may be more PWM than MPPT works well. If wiring runs are long, then put your panels into series pairs to acheive 60V working and the EPSolar MPPT controllers are excellent.

Best wishes

OTW

Offline jdavid56

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2016, 10:46:42 PM »
...hey guys. The 24volt 8k LF PJ has worked well providing backup power to the home/home-office. Wired directly to the main panel into a dedicated 50 amp two pole breaker. Neighbors want to know the make of my silent generator. :)

I keep the battery bank maintained with a separate 10 amp charger. I tried charging with the PJ to no avail. I have a 5K unit similar to the 8K that works fine. The 8K unit works fine as an inverter but, will not transfer to battery charger mode. My question is this. Is there a fuse, switch, board that operates the charger function that is user serviceable with some help. I don't relish sending the unit off if I can keep from it.

This board is great. I damn sure don't pretend to understand the technical discussion, but I am smart enough to ask will the Oztules super inverter be on the market anytime soon.

Peace,
Jdavid

Offline oztules

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2016, 02:33:17 AM »
Check the rotary switch is on a charging position.. if on zero will not charge, only sync.

If the voltage or frequency is out of range with your generator, then it may not sync in either.

Make sure you turn off the PJ before disconnecting shore power

"will the Oztules super inverter be on the market anytime soon"... not from me at least...... I'm retired and lazy and on a remote island....

...............oztules

Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline jdavid56

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2016, 07:42:32 AM »
Check the rotary switch is on a charging position.. if on zero will not charge, only sync. Yep, but how can you really tell? You call it a rotary switch-I call it a "guess" switch.  >:(

If the voltage or frequency is out of range with your generator, then it may not sync in either. Voltage and frequency input from the mains and generator are are in the 240 range. The 8K PJ inverter/charger doesn't charge with this, but the 5K PJ does.

Make sure you turn off the PJ before disconnecting shore power. Again, yep you guys got me skittish early on with this one.



"will the Oztules super inverter be on the market anytime soon"... not from me at least...... I'm retired and lazy and on a remote island.......stop taking strolls on the beach and get to it, man.  ;)

Thanks for the response. Hoping you were going to say "check the fuse idiot".

Jdavid

...............oztules

Offline Pete

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2016, 04:01:07 AM »
Hi Solar newbee, it looks like you are planning to use a diode from each bank of batteries to isolate them from each other. The problem I see there is that if you manage to be drawing an 8kw load from the inverter then you will be drawing  over 300 amps from the batteries. Drawing 300 amps through the diode will mean that the diode will be dumping around 180 watts. That is a lot of power to lose and a lot of heat to get rid of.
The other thing that bothers me is whether you are planning to just use a floating 240 volt system, or whether you are going to use Residual Current Devices on the 220 volt power points for protection. If you plan on using RCD's then you need to have the Neutral Earthed at the switchboard.
Generally the neutral link is earthed to the Earth rod to allow RCD's to work.
Here is Australia it is a requirement that all power points have RCD protection. I use them with my Powerstar W7 and they work fine. No need to connect the neutral and earth at the inverter, just at the switchboard.

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2016, 08:13:10 PM »
Hey Pete

RCD's is something I'm not familiar with but unfortunately when they wire houses in the Philippines, even new ones under permit like mine, they don't run ground/earth wires to any receptacle. I did run a line to a ground rod from the neutral in the breaker box, neutral was provided from the electric company but since 220 is the universal voltage here not sure why they did it unless they expected the electricians to ground the electrical system. When I took possession of the home a few ears ago I found they had buried the incoming line in orange plastic flex and twisted the wires together and taped them. Wire nuts are not widely used nor are other connections hardware so I had to ship a lot of stuff from the U.S.

In the U.S. we have GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) within 6 feet of running water and arc fault circuit breakers for all bedrooms. Arc faults trip faster when an arc is detected like sawing thru a wire in a wall, nails, screws, child with a paper clip etc.

The diode thing I may abandon since it's hard to charge from 2 2400w solar charge controllers, a 2400w windmill and 24v 3000w backup genny and get past the diode and keep battery banks separate.

SN
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline Pete

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2016, 07:46:27 PM »
Hi Solar newbee, I guess that as the U.S uses only 110 volt for their house wiring voltage that they don't use RCD;s (otherwise called safety switches).
Maybe the Phillipines the supply is not referenced to earth and therefore what is called a floating system.
Still you could put a safety switch on the output of the inverter, before it goes to the house switchboard. 220 volts is lethal if you manage to get yourself across it.
Over 110 volts AC and 50 volts DC are considered dangerous here in Australia.
We have safety switches on all power outlets in our houses. They detect earth faults and trip if there is more than 30 milliamps difference between the active and neutral currents.  In our case the neutral is at earth potential.

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2016, 05:58:33 PM »
So Pete,

Your power is basically like what we call a high leg here in commercial buildings even in 3 phase supplied ones. 208 between legs but but one leg is 240 to neutral, found this out the hard way running a line for a 110 2 door commercial cooler.

SN
SN

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Offline rossw

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2016, 11:47:13 PM »
Your power is basically like what we call a high leg here in commercial buildings even in 3 phase supplied ones. 208 between legs but but one leg is 240 to neutral, found this out the hard way running a line for a 110 2 door commercial cooler.

240 phase-to-neutral
415 phase-to-phase

(We have three phases, any phase to any other is 415V, any phase to neutral is 240V, neutral is bonded to earth at switchboard)

Offline hacky

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2016, 08:40:46 AM »
hey pete,

Im also from here in oz!
I hear what your say about the rcd!!
There is a product u may or may not have heard of , either way i think it may be helpfull for the people here riding in caravans or even just an added layer of protection for the rest of us in our system.
Since vans are seldom plugged into the grid supply, you can get a product from Safelec called a Residual Voltage Device  (RVD)
( would post a link but im new here and not sure what is and isnt allowed ) although could save someones life !!!
 L1 & L2 are supplied by the inverter, since neither have a connection to the chassis if there was any 'flow' along the equipotentially bonded 'earth system' wouldn't activate a RCD. The RVD detects a voltage between the 'earth system' and either L1 or L2 and isolates supply.

PS. One of these should always be used when using a Generator otherwise what level of protection do u have !