Author Topic: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question  (Read 4912 times)

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Offline badgenes

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Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« on: October 17, 2015, 09:40:01 PM »
I have a powerjack 8000w lf 2015 Splt Phase version, similar to jdavies, except that there is an external L1-N-L2 jumper terminal block above the fan switch.  This is not to be confused with the Line terminal block below the 110v output jack.  Could someone please explain the use of this block, as while it appears to be a jumper block to determine output voltage/phase configuration it does not appear to be given the lack of information in the manual.  We are new at this, having purchased deep cycle batteries, panels and charging controllers and this inverter.  So far, so good, but being cautious we have not yet connected any output to the inverter just testing it at this stage.

In the event that this is a jumper block for the line connections (L-N-E), does this affect the configuration of the 110v connector above?
ila_rendered
Thank you,
Sean

Offline oztules

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2015, 10:46:42 PM »
........ what fan switch?
LNE terminals are 0 - 220v and earth. The full output winding.
L1 N L2 is 110v-0-110v center tapped transformer output.

Use a meter and look if your not sure.

All power is floating above ground ( there are a few tiny caps that will give a high impedance voltage reading to ground... but no real power) until you connect it to a grounded system,,, then ground mentioned on the case, becomes house ground and whatever that entails in your code.

If using 110v outputs, try to balance the loads between the phases..... for book keeping for the inverter current limits....

............oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline badgenes

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 10:04:28 AM »
Thank you. Measuring the output of the 110v jack, we get 175v L - E, N - E 59v, and L - N 116v.  The values are exactly the same for the "Large Voltage Output". What we are wondering is what the circled terminal block is for. Is it to select the output of the upper jack?  Or something else?
ila_rendered


Offline Ricardo c

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 07:25:44 AM »
Hi badgenes, nothing to do with your question but a lot to do with the photo. I recently purchased a Powerjack 5000 watt inverter after having read the posts on the forum and I noticed something missing in your photo. Mine has a little switch next to the 240 volt output that overrides the fan thermostat for continuous running of the fan. Without this function switched on the thermostat operates too late when the inverter is working operating the fridge, freezer and the front loading washer and the thing shuts down. With the fan on it is fine. Maybe this could be retro fitted to existing machines and save a few headaches. 
 

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 09:12:47 PM »
The switch is for auto/on for the main fan so if you prefer continuous fan yay! As I understood from my discussion with the designer these powerjack inverters really weren't made to work in U.S. 220v systems split into 2 110v circuits plus 220v psc equipment since the neutral is bonded to earth at breaker panel, hence the "cannot L1+N+L2"Although.... There was a chinese/English barrier.
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline oztules

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 07:51:36 AM »
I don't have a split system inverter to look at.... so this is guess work.

The PJ will use two transformers in series as the output. The center tap will be at 110v potential to either end of either transformer.
So you can have 0-110v with an 180degree out of phase 0-110v output.
You can have 0-220v with a center tapped neutral.
Neutral can be earthed the same as in the house system.... so there is no difference to the normal power

This should be identical to your street pole transformer in the US.
This diagram is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power


The earth in the pj floats,( only connected to chassis ) and does not actually see earth until you connect to the main board in the house... then the chassis is earthed.
In 220v mode it is fine..... but is center tapped earthed as in the wiki picture... we don't do that over here.
We have one side of the 220 or 240v earthed as N, and the active s the other conductor.

You can do that with that PJ as well, but you can see that this will mean you cannot concurrently use the 110v outputs, and have them referenced to ground as well as the 220v... referenced to ground via a 220v neutral..... kaboom.... only via a center tapped reference to ground as per illustration.

So you should be able to use it as they do in the USA in that picture, for 110v and 220v,  OR you can use it like the European and Australian systems do... but you can't do both at the same time, and have the earths doing the legal thing in both jurisdictions.

The other problem exists in the way the current sense works, as it will only see one of the split phases, or all of the full phase..... so you can o/load it without it knowing if you load up the non-monitored phase. The current sense is in the active leg of the 220/240v winding on the secondary. Power drawn on the other leg to CT will not be seen.

Battery charging will need to be done via 220v input only ( or grid tie on 110v or 220v outputs... not official )


.................oztules
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 10:05:37 PM »
Thanks Oz for the further education. A BTW messaged with eBay member bloominginverter based in China who when asked why there aren't any pj replacement parts and message came back what parts do you need sir? So....maybe this person can supply, might have to search member on eBay.com in the U.S.
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline dan

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 11:04:52 AM »
so pretty much, dont try using this as 3-phase? use it like normal split-phase 110/220v North American houses do...?

Offline oztules

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 05:16:22 PM »
yes Dan
Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline Dr_Zogg

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 08:31:23 PM »
speaking of 3 phase. is it possible to build a 3 phase inverter? or am I better off using vfd's?

Cheers,
          Sam
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most

Offline dan

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2016, 08:48:04 PM »
I am also getting a reading of about 60v N to E. Is it safe to connect them together? Or should I test with resistor first to see if there is any current flow?

Dr_Zogg, yes it is definitely possible, I know it can be done with Sma's sunny island inverters, but I do not know of any cheaper solutions

Offline oztules

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 11:05:29 PM »
Dan, that should be leakage from the 2 blue caps on the ac boards.... they will get a center tap voltage as they form a voltage divider across the ac to ground... it is normal.....60v for a 120v system is correct. They are small capacitance, and carry very little power.

But you can test anyway.

Connect a small 1k resistor to the ground from the neutral, and see if it gets hot, or it brings the neutral to ground potential without any heat .. then you may connect it if all ok.

It is sometimes best to leave the AC floating above ground until it connects to a switchboard, and the ground can go to bus there... ie the case is connected to neither N or A until it is forced to by the home switchboard....... this will save blowing things up if you connect back to front.. it will just work, as the transformer technically has no preference as which is active and which is neutral, until you say so.


............oztules

Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline buglover34465

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 08:52:54 AM »
So can I use the powerjack split phase LF inverter in L1-N-L2 connected through the dryer 220V L1-N-L@ plug to backfeed my electric box and have the normal 110V/ L1-N, or L2-N, and 220V L1-L2 on the 220v breakers (hot water heater and oven)?
From the discussion, it sounds like I can, as long as I do not use the other installed plugs. This would be nice as I currently only have a 110V inverter backfeeding L1-N, L2-N for 110V no 240V.

Offline Solarnewbee

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 05:03:23 PM »

 I'm working on building a PJ 24 volt system and have a newbee question: can 36 volt panels be used in a 24 volt system???

Found a good deal, better than 24 volt panels. will my mppt charger deal with it?

I also find the connections on the PJ 8000w a bit confusing but in the philippines its just 220 and no earth ground, at least not until I retire there and add it for surge protection.
SN

Any day above ground is a day for potential mishaps

Offline dan

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Re: Powerjack 8000W LF Inverter Question
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2016, 08:48:42 PM »
Solarnewbee,

By the sounds of it, yes 36v panels will work fine with an MPPT charge controller into your 24v system. You really have to just look at the max voltage of your MPPT. That's the whole point of an MPPT charge controller. Usually you even want to series your panels together and go as high as your MPPT charge controller will operate. This way you can use smaller wires (less current) and you have less losses in both the lines and sometimes in controllers/inverters, but that depends. With some charge controllers it may be best to get the input voltage as close to your battery voltage to have the best efficiency, even though it will work fine with much higher voltages. I usually just series my panels together up to the max of charge controller, this way I have less combining of parallel strings to do, if any at all. It's much easier when I series together a bunch of panels and then I can hook them straight into charge controller with no combiner box/Ys

It would help a lot to know exacts for what you are doing. For the MPPT what is the operating range voltage, max voltage, etc.? For the panels what is the Open circuit voltage, Max power voltage, etc.? I often find it silly that people call panels "12v panels" etc., since they never actually match the proper charge voltage of panels, and depending on the setup you may or may not want to use a charge controller.

If you have lead-acid batteries on a system you use often, it is often fine wiring panels straight into your batteries. If your system may sit at a full charge for a while then you probably want a charge controller. Once the batteries are full, the solar will just keep cooking them. If you are going with Lithium batteries, then you always want a charge controller. Lithium batteries will get damaged quick when overvoltaged.


As far as your inverter goes... you do not need a split phase one. Philippines is 220v 60hz L-N, and thats all. There is not two 110v L-Ns which make 220v L-L, like in the US, and which is what the split phase inverter is for. From a quick ebay search though, it looks like buying the split phase models may be the easy way to get 220v 60hz. It is perfectly fine to use it as just a 220v inverter.