Author Topic: Possible new source for PJ torrid tranny  (Read 3324 times)

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Offline Monsterturbo

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Possible new source for PJ torrid tranny
« on: September 20, 2015, 07:35:43 pm »
Hello,

Been lurking for quite some time and would like to share a possible new source for torrid transformer.
I have an enclosed motorcycle trailer with 1KW of panels on the roof and a iTracer 60A mppt solar charger, 2x 250AH 12V deep cycle AGM batteries, and a PJ 8K 24v inverter. The trailer is used as my portable man-cave, pit-stop, portable repair shop. I used to use a noisy/crappy generator to run the trailer for my track days and various motorcycle/atv activities and when you get a call from a friend stuck on the side of the road at midnight. About 2 years ago the generator released its guts to the world in a most spectacular manner. This was a no-name 2K watt model. The generator was able to run my AC (inverter type)/refrigerator and everything else I could throw at it. Perfect time for a change and I wanted something totally quite. Spec’ed out panels that would fit and found out I could get 1KW on the roof perfectly. Installed what you see above and from a power generating/storage aspect it worked fine, do want to add another battery bank so I have 48V. I then read all the things good and bad about PJ and decided to go that way. Mind you the unit worked right out of the box however there is a caveat, I was ripped off by PJ and eBay. I bid on an 8K unit, got it for around 200$ and was excited! Received the unit and it seemed light in weight. I emailed PJ and they said no that is their 8K unit.
Installed the unit and hooked everything up and ran all the stuff the generator did with no fuss… or did it. I left the loading ramp/back door open and cranked up the AC, as normal it slow started and ended up around ~950 watts current usage trying to cool the outdoors, great load test ;-). The batteries were full and the sun was overhead so have as much capacity as possible. Figured I would let it run an hour to see how it would behave. I left for about 30 minutes, came back everything is still running but noticed the inverter fans were on full tilt and the case temperature was so hot I could hardly touch it. Guess I caught it just before the over temp shutdown. I knew these things are under rated going into this. That is why I bought an 8K, should be way over the top for my needs. Something is not right, open up the unit and there is one small torrid where the label had been blanked out with a black sharpie or some heavy black marker pen. After carefully peeling the sticker off, from the back side I see the label shows 3000. I am now WTF and send an email via eBay to the seller. His only comment was you opened the unit and the warranty is voided. He would not address the fact this was a 3K unit in an 8K chassis. This is where the catch 22 comes in, eBay admits it looks like it was a bait and switch maneuver on the part of the seller, they also agreed that the seller is right. Ok I own it… but at least I know why it could not run a 1KW load for 30 minutes without it getting scorching hot. I now need to think about the heat load this thing is going to add ;-( With that said I have been looking for an inexpensive solution for the bigger torrid in the states (you guys in AU have all the toys, Inspires laying around for cheap) for a while since shipping an Inspire 2KW would break the bank. I got lucky and found a 2500VA transformer on eBay for 45$ plus 35$ for shipping. In the description it mentioned it came from an APC AP9621 transformer. After a bit of research there are several different models that seem to have the same transformer. I see that both eBay here and in AU have these units for fairly cheap since they weigh 100lbs shipping is going to be the stick in the spokes.
Picture included. This thing is huge!! The thing weighs 80lbs, is 12” across and 3” thick with all the stock windings. Can’t imagine what type of continuous current that 3 of these stacked as has been done with the inspires by some intrepid (oztules) soul. Just the iron will be around 200lbs.
This is a step down transformer. In stock form the input is 208 and the output is 120. Since all the stuff in my trailer is 120 means I don’t have to rewind the secondary, just add some honking primary. The primary (208VAC) was 2 in hand wound together that terminated to 2 10 Gauge wires. The core is big enough so there was space between all the wires, no overlap. The secondary wiring is a little different (don’t think I am going to cut into it) as there are 6 14 Gauge wires that seem (as per my VOM) to tie into the same point to the other side of the secondary. Applied power to the primary and all the wires had the same potential on them, just tie them together and be done with it. Unwound the primary and did the 10 turn test and got 10.59 volts. Will be going the welding cable route and was thinking 12MM, will that be too big? I have also ordered the e-core to reduce the idle current as I would like to leave the inverter on all the time for the refrig. That is all for today. Will update next weekend after I get it installed. Pictures will be included then.

I look for any suggestion and or advise.

Best Regards,
MT

Offline oztules

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Re: Possible new source for PJ torrid tranny
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 12:08:57 am »
If the 110v winding is on the core, then remove the 208v winding. Transformer power rating is all about cooling in the end... the voltage sag and other problems are the problem for the controller to worry about.

So keep it cool by getting rid of the blanket that the 208 winding would be.


Also the hole in the center is pretty small for 12mm 30 turns to fit in. Your about 1v/turn, so the core is smaller than the inspire, and larger than the 1k5 aerosharp.
If you can get a bigger hole by removing the 208v winding you may just fit it in.
Guessing 3kw continuous is quite reasonable to expect.

PJ shoots themselves in the foot at every opportunity, can only tell it as we see it.

Mine is running fine still.... no issues at all, hopefully  yours will too. 8kw units should have 2 x their 5kw transformers... (still too small),  adequate for most uses..they are no where near 5kw per transformer in real life.... but better than nothing and would have been fine for your usage I expect.

See how it goes.



...............oztules

Flinders Island...... Australia

Offline Monsterturbo

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Re: Possible new source for PJ torrid tranny
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 03:22:53 pm »
Hello,

Oztules thanks for the suggestions. Might just go with 10MM for the primary and make sure to leave extra length on one leg for the e-core, thoughts? Did a bit of research and found that this transformer can be found in the following APC models AP9621, AP9626, AP9627, AP9628, APTF10KJ01, APTF10KT01, SURT003, SURT004, SURT005, SUTF2, SUTF3, SYTF2, SYTF2J, SYTF3, SYTF3J.  The models with 10K in the name show weighing 220lbs, these might contain two torrids or have a really big one for the folks that need the power. YMMV please verify the model number does indeed have the transformer you are looking for.

Best Regards,
MT

Offline Norm

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Re: Possible new source for PJ torrid tranny
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 07:23:36 am »
I've not had any dealings with E-Bay myself but in your case don't the person selling on E-Bay
get a big black mark if they lie about what they are selling where everyone thinking of buying
gets forewarned about the seller ?
   Small compensation for you .....but still nice for all of us to know ...let the buyer beware hmmm?
Friend of mine bought a voltage regulator for the Craftsman 18.5 riding mower of mine that he bought       from E-Bay for $5 S&H included instead of $40 from Sears Go figure huh ?
    Thanks for the knowledge
    Like in the movies ......" trust no one "
Norm.

Offline frwainscott

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Re: Possible new source for PJ torrid tranny
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016, 10:24:28 pm »
I would be careful buying APC brand xfmrs, I looked at used ones over here and every one of them were EI Xfmrs. I just lucked out and thought to ask to see them. :-)

If Anyone can point me to a toroid that will work , I would appreciate it muchly, Im in the good old USA. Cant find any large ones.